Ellipse Profiles – The next revolution in skate profiling?

[VegasHockey 1280]

 

[Left Wing King 50]

Could that vid be any less informative?

[VegasHockey 1280]

15 minutes ago, Left Wing King said:

Could that vid be any less informative?

All I can assume is they are now going to be using the ellipse in the multi radii profiles instead of basing it off circles. 

[boo10 323]

3 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

All I can assume is they are now going to be using the ellipse in the multi radii profiles instead of basing it off circles. 

Seems pretty pointless to me, since an ellipse is just a squished circle.  Any application of the ellipse shape to a skate blade would have to use the long arc of the ellipse, so really it's still just a circle.  Oh well, will be interesting to see what it actually is.

[mojo122 535]

ProSharp has multiple templates for singles, combos, triples, quads, and now add the eclipse.  Hard for the consumer to know what is right not to add that the small shop owner has to make a significant investment in templates.  

From the ProSharp website regarding the eclipse:

"The focus is on providing the skater with the most DYNAMIC and SEAMLESS skating experience as possible. Combine maximum POWER with hyperlight AGILITY!"

Hype, BS?

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, mojo122 said:

ProSharp has multiple templates for singles, combos, triples, quads, and now add the eclipse.  Hard for the consumer to know what is right not to add that the small shop owner has to make a significant investment in templates.  

From the ProSharp website regarding the eclipse:

"The focus is on providing the skater with the most DYNAMIC and SEAMLESS skating experience as possible. Combine maximum POWER with hyperlight AGILITY!"

Hype, BS?

 

I assume it's probably like a quint radius with 4 radii and then a very long flat spot under the ball of the foot. Maybe ProSharp will comment. 

[nummer55 10]

An ellipse is not a circle, it has two focal points, so you can’t speak of a radius. If the pivot point of the blade is on the horizontal center of the ellipse it would be a symmetrical profile. Obviously they can rotate the ellipse, so indeed very curious to see how they have applied this. The seamless remark I guess is based on the fact there is no areas in which two radii blend.

Edited October 24, 2020 by nummer55

[BenBreeg 493]

Think we are getting to the point of diminishing returns.  As has been pointed out, there are so many profiles and no good way to prescribe which is best for any given skater.  Since all curves have to blend through an easement, I don't know what the practical effect this will have to differentiate from other profiles.

[VegasHockey 1280]

So I emailed to a shop that has the profiles and they said "There is currently only rumors to what the new profiles are. The overall guess is that the new profiles might be quint (5) where the radius are replaced with ellipse shapes. I am continuing to dig for more information with them.  At the moment this is all anyone has."

Kind of sounds like what I thought. 

[PUCKSTOPPROSHOPJL 6]

Ellipse Zero – Elliptic value closest to zero (a circle) – also meaning it’s the shortest profile of them all. Currently making it the most agile in the series, while packing the dynamic punch that all Ellipse profiles do. We've taken inspiration from the Quad Zero on this one, making it best suited for skate sizes 7-8 (only a recommendation).

Ellipse I – The in-betweener. Best suited for skate sizes 9-10 (only a recommendation).

Ellipse II – Elliptic level furthest away from zero. Meaning it’s longer, making it more powerful, but still agile. Best suited for skate sizes 11-12 (only a recommendation).

The key feature is the seamlessness of the profiles. This gives the skater the feeling that they always have the optimal ice contact for each on-ice action.

All Ellipse templates are built in with a pitch (-20 mm), good to know when re-profiling an already pitched blade.

 

 

[BenBreeg 493]

Is this the official description because it pretty much tells you nothing....

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

Is this the official description because it pretty much tells you nothing....

The official description tells you even less.

https://prosharp.us/collections/accessories/products/prosharp-profiling-template-elipse

The new ELLIPSE profiles revolutionizes profiling by transferring the shape of an ellipse to the blade.

This is a paradigm shift where we're going from radius profiling, which was introduced in the late 80's, to ellipse profiling.

The focus is on providing the skater with the most DYNAMIC and SEAMLESS skating experience as possible.

Combine maximum POWER with hyperlight AGILITY!

The ELLIPSE profiles are pitched 20 mm backwards.

Edited October 29, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

On 10/25/2020 at 3:22 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

So I emailed to a shop that has the profiles and they said "There is currently only rumors to what the new profiles are. The overall guess is that the new profiles might be quint (5) where the radius are replaced with ellipse shapes. I am continuing to dig for more information with them.  At the moment this is all anyone has."

Kind of sounds like what I thought. 

Actually watching the video seems like a singular radius with a flatter center section. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

20 hours ago, PUCKSTOPPROSHOPJL said:

Ellipse Zero – Elliptic value closest to zero (a circle) – also meaning it’s the shortest profile of them all. Currently making it the most agile in the series, while packing the dynamic punch that all Ellipse profiles do. We've taken inspiration from the Quad Zero on this one, making it best suited for skate sizes 7-8 (only a recommendation).

Ellipse I – The in-betweener. Best suited for skate sizes 9-10 (only a recommendation).

Ellipse II – Elliptic level furthest away from zero. Meaning it’s longer, making it more powerful, but still agile. Best suited for skate sizes 11-12 (only a recommendation).

The key feature is the seamlessness of the profiles. This gives the skater the feeling that they always have the optimal ice contact for each on-ice action.

All Ellipse templates are built in with a pitch (-20 mm), good to know when re-profiling an already pitched blade.

 

 

Merged into the existing thread. Also kind of a weird first ever post to make. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

36 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Actually watching the video seems like a singular radius with a flatter center section. 

Thats kind of what I was thinking but without having my hands on the templates to measure them it's hard to tell. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[BenBreeg 493]

Makes sense as an ellipse will have a continually varying radius until a certain point with relation to the focal points with the middle a longer, flatter radius.  But for Ellipse Zero, it's essentially a circle which would just be a standard radius, so what is the measurement?  And for the others, for the actual amount of blade profiled, is it going to really be that different that a similar radius single?  Mathematically, of course, but practically will it?

 

What are your guys' thoughts on reverse pitch?  I know it is possible but would you ever prescribe it as a general approach? 

[caveman27 208]

1 hour ago, BenBreeg said:

Makes sense as an ellipse will have a continually varying radius until a certain point with relation to the focal points with the middle a longer, flatter radius.  But for Ellipse Zero, it's essentially a circle which would just be a standard radius, so what is the measurement?  And for the others, for the actual amount of blade profiled, is it going to really be that different that a similar radius single?  Mathematically, of course, but practically will it?

 

What are your guys' thoughts on reverse pitch?  I know it is possible but would you ever prescribe it as a general approach? 

If we look at a regular single radius profile with zero pitch, the skater would feel balanced without a feeling of their toes or heels are getting pushing up. If you have a 10 foot circle, you can cut out a 1 foot long section and the arc is going to be the same no matter where you make the cut.

If you have an ellipse that is 10 feet from one end to the other, and then you cut out a 1 foot section, it's not going to be the same shape if you cut it from the middle as opposed to from one of the ends.

Maybe the blade profile isn't a shape that is cut from the very middle of the ellipse. What if they are cutting it off center so the back of the blade is longer and flatter, and the front of the blade curves more. When you put that profile onto a blade, you might have the sensation of leaning forward too much. So, they put a reverse pitch on it.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by caveman27

[BenBreeg 493]

37 minutes ago, caveman27 said:

If we look at a regular single radius profile with zero pitch, the skater would feel balanced without a feeling of their toes or heels are getting pushing up. If you have a 10 foot circle, you can cut out a 1 foot long section and the arc is going to be the same no matter where you make the cut.

If you have an ellipse that is 10 feet from one end to the other, and then you cut out a 1 foot section, it's not going to be the same shape if you cut it from the middle as opposed to from one of the ends.

Maybe the blade profile isn't a shape that is cut from the very middle of the ellipse. What if they are cutting it off center so the back of the blade is longer and flatter, and the front of the blade curves more. When you put that profile onto a blade, you might have the sensation of leaning forward too much. So, they put a reverse pitch on it.

 

Yep, agree.  They don’t really explain it.  Just wondering what the actual net effect is.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, BenBreeg said:

Yep, agree.  They don’t really explain it.  Just wondering what the actual net effect is.

I found this that helps a little. It seems as was surmised, no more multiple radii and instead just a single ellipse. 

https://www.prosharp.se/pub_docs/files/Our-most-popular-profiles.pdf

Edited October 29, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[BenBreeg 493]

But as caveman pointed out, a profile centered will have symmetrical curves, move it forward or back and it becomes asymmetrical in different ways.  There is no info on what the dimensions of the ellipses are.

My question is how much different is this than a multi radius profile?  Even with multiple radii the fact that they have to seamlessly blend them creates variable radii along the length of the blade.

i am sure we will get more info on what this is supposed to accomplish. 

[kkskate 12]

On 10/29/2020 at 3:45 PM, BenBreeg said:

Makes sense as an ellipse will have a continually varying radius until a certain point with relation to the focal points with the middle a longer, flatter radius.  But for Ellipse Zero, it's essentially a circle which would just be a standard radius, so what is the measurement?  And for the others, for the actual amount of blade profiled, is it going to really be that different that a similar radius single?  Mathematically, of course, but practically will it?

 

What are your guys' thoughts on reverse pitch?  I know it is possible but would you ever prescribe it as a general approach? 

I don't believe there is a reverse pitch on the new profiles.  It's just the wording they use.  When they say "The ELLIPSE profiles are pitched 20 mm backwards" I am fairly certain they are saying the pivot point is moved 20 mm to the rear of the blade which creates a forward pitch.  The Zuperiors and the Quads have the same 20 mm adjustment on them by default.  Prosharp has confirmed that the pitch on the Ellipse is the same as the previous Quads (All Ellipse templates are built in with a pitch (-20 mm), good to know when re-profiling an already pitched blade).  Below is a quick video of the new templates.  Sorry about the advertising though thought it was relevant to the thread.  Happy to delete if inappropriate.

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by kkskate
Adding detail.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

2 hours ago, kkskate said:

I don't believe there is a reverse pitch on the new profiles.  It's just the wording they use.  When they say "The ELLIPSE profiles are pitched 20 mm backwards" I am fairly certain they are saying the pivot point is moved 20 mm to the rear of the blade which creates a forward pitch.  The Zuperiors and the Quads have the same 20 mm adjustment on them by default.  Prosharp has confirmed that the pitch on the Ellipse is the same as the previous Quads (All Ellipse templates are built in with a pitch (-20 mm), good to know when re-profiling an already pitched blade).  Below is a quick video of the new templates.  Sorry about the advertising though thought it was relevant to the thread.  Happy to delete if inappropriate.

 

Still no information on what there equivalent to and why they should be sold. 

[kkskate 12]

3 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Still no information on what there equivalent to and why they should be sold. 

They’ve essentially stated the Ellipse Zero is equivalent to the Quad 0, Ellipse 1 is Quad 1, etc. and should be used as a starting point.   Agreed, the reasoning is a bit vague though it seems like most of the information they’ve released suggests that the ellipse shapes create a more seamless blending between the sections. Myself and some other will be testing them out this week. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by kkskate

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

34 minutes ago, kkskate said:

They’re essentially stated the Ellipse Zero is equivalent to the Quad 0, Ellipse 1 is Quad 1, etc. and should be used as a starting point.   Agreed, the reasoning is a bit vague though it seems like most of the information they’ve released suggests that the ellipse shapes create a more seamless blending between the sections. Myself and some other will be testing them out this week. 

Yes I have seen akl the videos etc. 

Still basically zero information on how to sell them. Comparison and equivalent profiles. We all know alot of stores dont do Quads properly.  

[kkskate 12]

2 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Yes I have seen akl the videos etc. 

Still basically zero information on how to sell them. Comparison and equivalent profiles. We all know alot of stores dont do Quads properly.  

I'd think if you're not a fan of the Quads you would not be excited about this release. As a skater that loves the quads and knows many others who do also I am at least intrigued by what they have to offer.  It's been quite a while since they've been refreshed.