CCM 2021 skate questions

[Beflar 53]

2 hours ago, start_today said:

Does anyone but a bunch of equipment nerds care what type of steel skates sell with at retail? Most people can’t be bothered to figure out what hollow they skate on. 

You're not wrong.

[Vet88 674]

On 4/6/2021 at 5:31 PM, Beflar said:

Here is a question then, I have Bauer Supreme One100 skates.  I'm a strong guy and even after all these years I can barely get  the sides of the skates to move if I try and pinch them together.  How would my skates rate on a CCM stiffness rating?  I can't imagine the new skates being stiffer than this but I haven't tried the new skates.

I still have my One100's (last skated in them in Jan) - my Jetspeeds would be on par, my AS1's and AS3's are much much stiffer (all are retail skates).

[Beflar 53]

4 hours ago, Vet88 said:

I still have my One100's (last skated in them in Jan) - my Jetspeeds would be on par, my AS1's and AS3's are much much stiffer (all are retail skates).

In terms of stiffness which do you like better?  Having a hard time picking which stiffness would be better for someone like me.  Been playing for 15 years but started when I was 30.

[Vet88 674]

17 hours ago, Beflar said:

In terms of stiffness which do you like better?  Having a hard time picking which stiffness would be better for someone like me.  Been playing for 15 years but started when I was 30.

Eek, that's a tough question because I have different preferences. For retail skates I like the one piece construction because I find it has much more lateral support at the sole level. For me this is one of the key areas if you skate lace free. The Jetspeeds are nice but too soft when unlaced (but this was 2 years ago and my mechanics have changed a lot and I need to give them another go). The AS1 and AS3 are fine but my current skate is a custom extra stiff apx2 I picked up off eBay. If you want something close to the one100 when laced up then I'd go with a Jetspeed, the AS1 / 3 are in a completely different realm when it comes to stiffness.

[stick9 890]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

Huh? 

Some guys unlace their skates little by little until they are lace free. It's a training thing, and yes it sounds crazy.

[BenBreeg 493]

Lace free has been around for a long time.  Basically training your foot to control the blade vs. letting the “clamping power” of the skate do the work.

[Vet88 674]

8 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Jeez I hope they aren't playing in games like that. 

I have but the performance hit for me is too great at this stage, I'm slowly closing the gap (versus laced up) but it's a long term learning process. I train with no laces and currently play with the bottom 4 eyelets laced up only (I move between 3 to 5 eyelets laced up depending on the boot I'm in). As to playing in games, this guy (Daryl Evans) played a chunk of his NHL career with just the bottom 5 eyelets done up and there are pics of him playing in all star games with no laces.

 

[raganblink 82]

On 4/8/2021 at 4:49 PM, Beflar said:

I was under the impression that the CCM one piece boot design was selling well.  That plus adding Step steel makes CCM a very strong boot IMHO.

Currently skating in Bauer skates.  

my clearance section would like a word with you.

 

Granted partially because CCM had an opp buy and Bauer did not.. but the fact that there was an opp buy to begin with says something. They had excess stock, Bauer didn't. So they overbought initially. 

[Vet88 674]

12 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I always see this one pic floating around. Looks dangerous in a game situation. 

Haha, it is, the tongue can flop forward and this really screws with your cross overs. For game time you lace up like this (bottom 3 to 5 eyelets), tight or loose depends on how good you are skating like this and your preference. Daryl can just pull the boot off as he ties very loose.

[flip12 714]

Have you thought about putting an elastic band around the tongue to keep it from flopping too much?

[Beflar 53]

17 hours ago, raganblink said:

my clearance section would like a word with you.

 

Granted partially because CCM had an opp buy and Bauer did not.. but the fact that there was an opp buy to begin with says something. They had excess stock, Bauer didn't. So they overbought initially. 

What is opp buy again?

[BenBreeg 493]

2 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Too much injury risk for me. 

In game I can't say one way or another but certainly not as a training exercise.

[Miller55 333]

On 4/11/2021 at 9:22 AM, pgeorgan said:

Huh? 

4 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Too much injury risk for me. 

 

Maybe in a game, but for training it's pretty safe as long as you stay within your abilities. I usually don't go full unlaced, but I drop like 4 eyelets. 

[raganblink 82]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:45 PM, Beflar said:

What is opp buy again?

Opportunity buy. When retailers have a lot of excess inventory they will offer it to retailers at a great discount to encourage us to buy their stock out before the new models arrive.

[skyscrape 5]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:22 AM, Miller55 said:

Just from my knowledge of the materials, I would say that there's no comparison. Today's skates are much stiffer. I owned the One95s and I can say that the 2S Pros are in a different league in stiffness. The CCM Super Tacks are not quite as stiff as the 2S pros, and from my understanding the as1 and as3 pro are stiffer than the 2015 Super Tacks, and probably similar to the 2S Pros, give or take a little. 

I was curious about this as I still skate my APX’s.  A shop guy at perrani’s said that the APX is stiffer than anything current.  
 

im tempted to try something new...but if it ain’t broke...

[Miller55 333]

Never wore apxs, but they're made of tech mesh, which is objectively less stiff than curv composite, and definitely less stiff than carbon curv. 

[boo10 323]

53 minutes ago, Miller55 said:

Never wore apxs, but they're made of tech mesh, which is objectively less stiff than curv composite, and definitely less stiff than carbon curv. 

APX are not tech mesh, they are "Alive" composite, which I believe is the original name for Curv.

[Miller55 333]

3 minutes ago, boo10 said:

APX are not tech mesh, they are "Alive" composite, which I believe is the original name for Curv.

Apx2s were tech mesh then? Vapor skates never fit me so I never paid much attention and still don't. Anyway, if they're the same as curv then I don't see why they'd be stiffer than anything current. As stiff, sure, but unless it has to do with design, why would they be stiffer than ultrasonics?

[flip12 714]

2 hours ago, Miller55 said:

Apx2s were tech mesh then? Vapor skates never fit me so I never paid much attention and still don't. Anyway, if they're the same as curv then I don't see why they'd be stiffer than anything current. As stiff, sure, but unless it has to do with design, why would they be stiffer than ultrasonics?

I think stiffness is still a variable that can be set within a range even if it’s the same material. Otherwise stiffness wouldn’t be a pro custom option within the same material palette.

[Leif 161]

On 4/8/2021 at 7:59 PM, raganblink said:

CCM is over-estimating the demand for $1000 skates I think and the practicality for retailers to bring in all of their lines and stock 3 different fits. 2 lines and 3 fits works for Bauer because they do substantially more volume in skates. 3 lines and 3 fits would probably work for Bauer, too. 

 

I don't see many shops carrying all 3 models and fits beyond the largest Pure in an area (and even then, probably only 4-5 cities) and a half dozen independents. Best of luck to them, just seems challenging to me to accomplish. I know we're our rep's biggest dealer and while we'll have all 3 models, we're only bringing in regular and wide fits, and even then a low quantity with us chasing the rest of the way. $1000 skates don't sell daily, unfortunately. 

Here in the UK there are two big retailers that I am aware of, one is huge and I think they carry stock for all Bauer skates. However, they are 250 miles away. The other, which is nearby, cannot afford to have each size and fit in the high end skates. I went custom, as I wasn’t prepared to buy skates without trying them on. I am told that they make more profit on lower end skates which just adds insult to injury as come the end of the season, they struggle to sell off excess high end stock before the new models come in. They love Bauer custom, and True custom, as they make profit without risk, and the customer is happy which is good for their reputation. 

[gosinger 122]

5 hours ago, Miller55 said:

Apx2s were tech mesh then? Vapor skates never fit me so I never paid much attention and still don't. Anyway, if they're the same as curv then I don't see why they'd be stiffer than anything current. As stiff, sure, but unless it has to do with design, why would they be stiffer than ultrasonics?

Speaking retail, APX1 were Curv/Alive, as were APX2.

Last top-model tech mesh was the x:60 (the generation before the APX1 was introduced), prior to that the XXXX, and the XXX before that. Don't know about earlier models as those pre-date me playing hockey.
Same year that the APX1 was released, the x7.0 (not X7.0, which was mid-tier) was the second-tier skate that was identical to the x:60/XXXX.

The APX1 was extremely stiff, with a tongue that offered very little protection. APX2 was said to be less stiff in the boot, as plenty of people complained. So I wouldn't be surprised if the APX1 retail is stiffer than what is out now in retail.

Pro-Stock there was the Nexus 1N/7000 V-Cut, which was a x7.0 re-dressed as a Nexus skate.

[stick9 890]

There is a youtube video out now explaining the fit profiles. They mention, ccm said the old fit system, fit about 75% of all players. Thru customer feedback and foot scans. They feel the new fit system will fit 95% of players. They talk a little about stiffness, nothing note worthy.

The Tacks line fit will remain the same until it gets updated sometime next year. Also, plenty of good shots of the new Ribcor and it looks glorious. 

[raganblink 82]

12 hours ago, Leif said:

Here in the UK there are two big retailers that I am aware of, one is huge and I think they carry stock for all Bauer skates. However, they are 250 miles away. The other, which is nearby, cannot afford to have each size and fit in the high end skates. I went custom, as I wasn’t prepared to buy skates without trying them on. I am told that they make more profit on lower end skates which just adds insult to injury as come the end of the season, they struggle to sell off excess high end stock before the new models come in. They love Bauer custom, and True custom, as they make profit without risk, and the customer is happy which is good for their reputation. 

The margin for custom is worse than stock, but it's a sale with 0 over head (although you do need a high volume to even be able to do customs, but all of your dollars don't need to be in skates). Same with custom goalie; great for retailer but downside is you need to have a big stock in order to get volume in custom. 

 

Ideally for the retailer they do not stock any skate above $600, and all high level skates are custom-only. The manufacture probably wouldn't like that though with a massive increase in labor costs. 

[flip12 714]

10 hours ago, raganblink said:

Ideally for the retailer they do not stock any skate above $600, and all high level skates are custom-only. The manufacture probably wouldn't like that though with a massive increase in labor costs. 

Just like True is doing.

Wouldn’t the manufacturers just pass additional cost on? It’s a simple pricing calculation for them. They probably already have a decent estimate of what the volume range would be at the start.

[BenBreeg 493]

3 hours ago, flip12 said:

Just like True is doing.

Wouldn’t the manufacturers just pass additional cost on? It’s a simple pricing calculation for them. They probably already have a decent estimate of what the volume range would be at the start.

It’s not just a simple pricing calculation for one product.  They have to have a model where they can offer a product at a price people will pay, have enough volume for it even to make sense, and look at profitability over an entire product line.