Are 14 rivets really necessary?

[VegasHockey 1284]

Was changing the holders on a pair of Graf skates today and was thinking why all modern skates use 14 rivets per holder?

Graf used 8 locking screws per holder and seemed to work fine for a very long time. 

I have seen some NHL players who have 18 rivets per holder, P Kane for example!

So is it overkill that we use some many rivets per holder? 

@JR Boucicaut @Vet88 

[Sniper9 538]

  On 2/9/2022 at 10:57 PM, PBH said:

Was changing the holders on a pair of Graf skates today and was thinking why all modern skates use 14 rivets per holder?

Graf used 8 locking screws per holder and seemed to work fine for a very long time. 

I have seen some NHL players who have 18 rivets per holder, P Kane for example!

So is it overkill that we use some many rivets per holder? 

@JR Boucicaut @Vet88 

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Bc those screws are way more secure than rivets. That's why you only need 8. 

[flip12 722]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZwtQNFOWaE/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Edited February 10, 2022 by flip12

[Vet88 674]

I would suspect that lighter, thinner materials need more support, they got to save that weight somewhere to get skates under 700g (with steel). The NT3000 and NT5000 holders were beasts (other than the stupid screw support for the steel).

[Vet88 674]

  On 2/10/2022 at 4:50 AM, flip12 said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZwtQNFOWaE/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

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At 6'6" he is a big lad but wtf, that is a sad looking holder...

[moonrockticktock 18]

  On 2/10/2022 at 1:28 AM, Sniper9 said:

Bc those screws are way more secure than rivets. That's why you only need 8. 

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Sorry to go off topic but is it possible to use those screws for non graf skates and holders? I don’t have a lhs near me so doing an inline conversion is difficult. Just wondering for future reference 

[krisdrum 233]

  On 2/10/2022 at 9:49 AM, moonrockticktock said:

Sorry to go off topic but is it possible to use those screws for non graf skates and holders? I don’t have a lhs near me so doing an inline conversion is difficult. Just wondering for future reference 

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No need to use the Graf specific bolts for an inline conversion.  You can get stuff from a hardware store.  Not sure I would do it for an ice set up, but maybe you could. 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by krisdrum

[moonrockticktock 18]

  On 2/10/2022 at 2:39 PM, krisdrum said:

No need to use the Graf specific bolts for an inline conversion.  You can get stuff from a hardware store.

 

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Thank you 🙏 

[krisdrum 233]

  On 2/10/2022 at 2:51 PM, moonrockticktock said:

Thank you 🙏 

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No problem.  I've done a few conversions using this video as a guide.  I've started to cover the outsole of the skate with blue painters tape after the ice holder is off which makes it easier to mark up the center line, hole placement, etc. make it easy to see what you are doing and gives a much cleaner look after.  I also suggest using pen or pencil to mark up as I've found a thicker marker to lack accuracy/precision.  Thinner the line/marking the better. 

[Buzz_LightBeer 974]

  On 2/10/2022 at 9:49 AM, moonrockticktock said:

Sorry to go off topic but is it possible to use those screws for non graf skates and holders? I don’t have a lhs near me so doing an inline conversion is difficult. Just wondering for future reference 

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I’ve replaced rivets with MLX screws in thin boots (Mako, MLX, True VH) for years. Primarily for college or AAA guys who were fed up with losing rivets weekly. 
 

if you run out of options send me a PM

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgjyDyNh7tK/?utm_medium=copy_link

[Larry54 243]

  On 2/10/2022 at 9:49 AM, moonrockticktock said:

Sorry to go off topic but is it possible to use those screws for non graf skates and holders? I don’t have a lhs near me so doing an inline conversion is difficult. Just wondering for future reference 

Read more  

Just to add to krisdrum's post, use truss head screws because they have a bigger diameter head so you don't need to use washers.

[Sniper9 538]

  On 2/10/2022 at 2:51 PM, moonrockticktock said:

Thank you 🙏 

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You prob will still have to use at least 10+ screws with this hardware as they are not as beefy as the graf hardware. 

[GimpIndustries 1]

  On 2/9/2022 at 10:57 PM, PBH said:

Was changing the holders on a pair of Graf skates today and was thinking why all modern skates use 14 rivets per holder?

Graf used 8 locking screws per holder and seemed to work fine for a very long time. 

I have seen some NHL players who have 18 rivets per holder, P Kane for example!

So is it overkill that we use some many rivets per holder? 

@JR Boucicaut @Vet88 

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I prefer my skates really lightweight, so I just let all my rivets fall out until the holder is loose. Saving them grams!!!

[flip12 722]

  On 2/11/2022 at 6:56 PM, GimpIndustries said:

I prefer my skates really lightweight, so I just let all my rivets fall out until the holder is loose. Saving them grams!!!

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Double-sided Scotch tape.

[GimpIndustries 1]

  On 2/11/2022 at 7:59 PM, flip12 said:

Double-sided Scotch tape.

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I like where your head is at! Wonder how my local pro shop would feel about that if the holder flew off while getting a sharpen.

PBH?

[VegasHockey 1284]

  On 2/11/2022 at 8:04 PM, GimpIndustries said:

I like where your head is at! Wonder how my local pro shop would feel about that if the holder flew off while getting a sharpen.

PBH?

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Now that would be something interesting to see! lol

[JBP 18]

  On 2/9/2022 at 10:57 PM, PBH said:

Was changing the holders on a pair of Graf skates today and was thinking why all modern skates use 14 rivets per holder?

Graf used 8 locking screws per holder and seemed to work fine for a very long time. 

I have seen some NHL players who have 18 rivets per holder, P Kane for example!

So is it overkill that we use some many rivets per holder? 

@JR Boucicaut @Vet88 

Read more  

Forgive me for piping in late if this part of the question has been addressed in other threads, but, every company must consider the costs of the materials they use to manufacture their products. Yes, the RMS screw system used bye Graf is probably more secure potentially on the skates, but, NO...it is not a weight saver and is SIGNIFICANTLY a more expensive method of attaching a holder to a boot. 

[Sprungdownunder 18]

For thin outsoles you can use T nut " short" as there are 2 sizes which are used in football helmets so they are easy to find in football gear shops, these T nuts are the same that where used on the MLX skates.You will need 8/32 grade 10 button head screws. With this set up you will not have to use 14 as they are very strong , make sure to use blue locktight.

Thicker outsoles use regular stainless steel T nuts 6/32.

Done this on all my franken boots & never had a problem.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Sprungdownunder