Westside 232 Report post Posted July 15 So True officially announced the Catalyst 9x4 skates a few days ago, but I’m left scratching my head. The previous Cats as well as the Hzrdus line cost $760 USD for the top of the line model. Pro customs for those models cost $1,050 while SVH customs cost $1,200. Are the 9x4 the off the shelf skate or a custom skate because True’s website is listing them at $1,080; a 40% increase over the outgoing model. That’s insane!! https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/hockey/catalyst-9x4-senior-player-hockey-skates.html# I initially tried out the TF9s because of the low entry point. Same goes for the Cat9s which were plagued with durability issues. I haven’t heard much about the Hzrdus line in terms of durability, but also don’t know a single person with those skates compared to previous models. I get increasing prices from one generation to the next, but 40%?!? What am I missing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sprungdownunder 18 Report post Posted July 15 2 hours ago, Westside said: So True officially announced the Catalyst 9x4 skates a few days ago, but I’m left scratching my head. The previous Cats as well as the Hzrdus line cost $760 USD for the top of the line model. Pro customs for those models cost $1,050 while SVH customs cost $1,200. Are the 9x4 the off the shelf skate or a custom skate because True’s website is listing them at $1,080; a 40% increase over the outgoing model. That’s insane!! https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/hockey/catalyst-9x4-senior-player-hockey-skates.html# I initially tried out the TF9s because of the low entry point. Same goes for the Cat9s which were plagued with durability issues. I haven’t heard much about the Hzrdus line in terms of durability, but also don’t know a single person with those skates compared to previous models. I get increasing prices from one generation to the next, but 40%?!? What am I missing? From what I can see they have added the DLC & new insoles to ramp up the price, that's the only difference between the 9X4'S and 7X4's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
start_today 770 Report post Posted July 15 Average consumers too often equate price to quality, so they assume high end true skates can’t be as good as Bauer or CCM if the flagship doesn’t cost four figures. True makes the price four digits, and when Johnny Suburb and his mom go skate shopping in August, suddenly Trues are now on the same tier because they cost more. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sturdy22 28 Report post Posted July 15 48 minutes ago, start_today said: Average consumers too often equate price to quality, so they assume high end true skates can’t be as good as Bauer or CCM if the flagship doesn’t cost four figures. True makes the price four digits, and when Johnny Suburb and his mom go skate shopping in August, suddenly Trues are now on the same tier because they cost more. I was saying this exact thing to my son the other day. The shop I was at a week ago had the catalyst 9x4 and I was able to have a hands on look. Definitely a beefed up catalyst skate. Extra heel protection and tendon guard and a thicker upper around the eyelets. Noticeably heavier even by true standards. My son is on his second pair of catalysts (Pro and 9) and they do have durability issues which would explain the beefy build out on the x4 line. But for $1000+ I think most would go with the supreme or vapor which side by side is a better looking skate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenBreeg 493 Report post Posted July 15 It might be a bold move because they lose the value prop of $:performance ratio but if they think it makes business sense more power to them. I also wonder if people here live in low income housing and wrap their kids in 1970s baseball gear to send them out on the ice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westside 232 Report post Posted July 15 9 hours ago, Sprungdownunder said: From what I can see they have added the DLC & new insoles to ramp up the price, that's the only difference between the 9X4'S and 7X4's. Honestly, I didn't even look at the 7. In the past the 7 was a downgrade in terms of shell, liner, and tongue. So all three of those items are now the same between the 9 and 7? Only differences are steel, insole, and coloring? If steel and insoles are the only differences, True sells both items ala cart for $65 (insoles) and a $70 upcharge from standard to DLC steel. The price difference between the 7 and 9 is $280 so that still doesn't make sense to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper9 529 Report post Posted July 15 (edited) I'd get the 7 because I hate the genetix insoles and their dlc is meh. Get the 7 with some jrz black seel and the insoles of your choice (for me speed plates). But with that said I'm not a fan of the blue accents on the 7. Btw are the custom tailored option no more for the new catalyst line? Seems like they got rid of it with the 9x4 being even more expensive than the cat pros were. Edited July 15 by Sniper9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westside 232 Report post Posted July 15 If the insoles and steel are the only differences between the 7 and 9, I'd agree. The Genetix insoles are terrible IMO and I'd swap holders regardless so the steel doesn't matter to me. Like you, not a fan of the blue either, but at least it's not as garish as the Cat9 yellow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VegasHockey 1280 Report post Posted July 15 15 hours ago, Westside said: So True officially announced the Catalyst 9x4 skates a few days ago, but I’m left scratching my head. The previous Cats as well as the Hzrdus line cost $760 USD for the top of the line model. Pro customs for those models cost $1,050 while SVH customs cost $1,200. Are the 9x4 the off the shelf skate or a custom skate because True’s website is listing them at $1,080; a 40% increase over the outgoing model. That’s insane!! https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/hockey/catalyst-9x4-senior-player-hockey-skates.html# The 9X4 is a one-piece carbon fiber shell, while the 7X4 is a composite one-piece shell. The insoles and steel are different, too. Overall, I think the 7X4 is the best bang for your buck. I personally like the new shell design more than a carbon fiber shell and in the future I imagine they will be moving more towards this composite design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westside 232 Report post Posted July 15 10 minutes ago, VegasHockey said: The 9X4 is a one-piece carbon fiber shell, while the 7X4 is a composite one-piece shell. The insoles and steel are different, too. Overall, I think the 7X4 is the best bang for your buck. I personally like the new shell design more than a carbon fiber shell and in the future I imagine they will be moving more towards this composite design. Is it though? Ice Warehouse's photos show 9x4 and 7x4 skates with what looks to be the same carbon shell design and the description lists the same for both models: "True Shell Technology with NeuroFit+ A proprietary co-molded shell construction with an internal shaping layer wraps around the foot for a custom-like fit and feel for maximum comfort and performance." "Material Carbon Fiber" The 5x4 and 3x4 both state '1-piece poly fusion' which sounds more like a composite similar to what was previously used on TF7, Cat7, and Hzrdus7. If the 7x4 is now what was previously considered the '9' model (TF9, Cat9, Hzrdus9), then pricing makes more sense; a $50 increase from previous gen model. It's just confusing as hell since that's not how their naming convention has been for the last 4 years and 3 generations of skates. And if that is the case, I would think that's stupid for retailers too. 9x4 is just different steel and insoles?! The two models just add an additional sku into inventory rather than allow customers to purchase steel/insoles separately like Bauer/CCM. https://www.icewarehouse.com/True_Catalyst_9X4/descpage-T9X4S.html https://www.icewarehouse.com/True_Catalyst_7X4/descpage-T7X4S.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VegasHockey 1280 Report post Posted July 16 53 minutes ago, Westside said: Is it though? Ice Warehouse's photos show 9x4 and 7x4 skates with what looks to be the same carbon shell design and the description lists the same for both models. Both are carbon, but the 9X4 is 100% carbon while the 7X4 is a carbon composite blend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisdrum 233 Report post Posted July 16 In the Ice Warehouse Youtube video, the True rep literally says the only difference between the 9 and 7 is the insole and the steel. Although I'll say I would tend to trust @VegasHockey over a sales rep any day. @VegasHockey when you say "composite" - do you have specifics? Technically (from my understanding) carbon fiber is a composite. Basically any material that combines two (or more) different materials (aka - carbon weave and epoxy). My kid is in his 2nd pair of Cat9s as well, and I just checked them last night after a weekend tournament and they are cracking and delam-ing again after the first pair was warranty replaced. With the improvements, I would definitely look at the new Cat line again, as he loves the current skates (durability issues not withstanding). I would definitely look at the 7x4 is there is really almost no difference between it and the 9, especially since we typically get our own steel anyway (he has been on Bladetech the last few years). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VegasHockey 1280 Report post Posted July 16 8 minutes ago, krisdrum said: In the Ice Warehouse Youtube video, the True rep literally says the only difference between the 9 and 7 is the insole and the steel. Although I'll say I would tend to trust @VegasHockey over a sales rep any day. @VegasHockey when you say "composite" - do you have specifics? Technically (from my understanding) carbon fiber is a composite. Basically any material that combines two (or more) different materials (aka - carbon weave and epoxy). My kid is in his 2nd pair of Cat9s as well, and I just checked them last night after a weekend tournament and they are cracking and delam-ing again after the first pair was warranty replaced. With the improvements, I would definitely look at the new Cat line again, as he loves the current skates (durability issues not withstanding). I would definitely look at the 7x4 is there is really almost no difference between it and the 9, especially since we typically get our own steel anyway (he has been on Bladetech the last few years). It's def a "buzzword bingo" thing. Basically, the 7X4 has trace amounts of fiberglass mixed with the carbon fiber. I argued with the TRUE rep when doing booking for 2024-2025 product because I didn't understand the value of the 9X4 compared to the 7X4 if the boot itself was the 100% the same. If you look at both, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference visually. However, the actual composition is different. I agree 100%, composite = made up of various parts or elements. I hate "buzzword bingo". It makes me die a little on the inside when I see marketecture. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisdrum 233 Report post Posted July 16 6 minutes ago, VegasHockey said: It's def a "buzzword bingo" thing. Basically, the 7X4 has trace amounts of fiberglass mixed with the carbon fiber. I argued with the TRUE rep when doing booking for 2024-2025 product because I didn't understand the value of the 9X4 compared to the 7X4 if the boot itself was the 100% the same. If you look at both, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference visually. However, the actual composition is different. I agree 100%, composite = made up of various parts or elements. I hate "buzzword bingo". It makes me die a little on the inside when I see marketecture. See, I knew I could trust you more than a rep. By adding a bit of fiberglass (or fibreglass for you Canadians), they make the boot a bit heavier, but also give it a bit more durability, as I recall fiberglass is a bit tougher than carbon. Carbon is notorious in the bike industry for "catastrophic failure", but is light and can be made into any shape, so you can downplay the fragility of it with design. Harder to do that with a boot, since it needs to be foot shaped and that doesn't allow for much engineering to mitigate the failure modes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westside 232 Report post Posted July 16 19 minutes ago, VegasHockey said: It's def a "buzzword bingo" thing. Basically, the 7X4 has trace amounts of fiberglass mixed with the carbon fiber. I argued with the TRUE rep when doing booking for 2024-2025 product because I didn't understand the value of the 9X4 compared to the 7X4 if the boot itself was the 100% the same. If you look at both, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference visually. However, the actual composition is different. I agree 100%, composite = made up of various parts or elements. I hate "buzzword bingo". It makes me die a little on the inside when I see marketecture. That is seriously helpful, thank you. Also seriously f-ed up True is not being transparent about this. Whoever handles True’s IG account also informed me the shells are the same. And if the 7x4 shells are not full carbon fiber like the TF9, Cat9, or Hzrdus9, that means there is a 40% markup on price for this generation of skate vs the equivalent previous gen. I agree the 7x4 does seem to be the value play, but I really dislike how none of True’s materials clarify any of this. It’s like they’re trying to deceive the customer. Not taking into account the steel or insoles, what’s the benefit of full carbon shell on the 9x4 vs trace amounts of fiberglass carbon on the 7x4? A few less grams of weight with less durability? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VegasHockey 1280 Report post Posted July 16 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Westside said: That is seriously helpful, thank you. Also seriously f-ed up True is not being transparent about this. Whoever handles True’s IG account also informed me the shells are the same. And if the 7x4 shells are not full carbon fiber like the TF9, Cat9, or Hzrdus9, that means there is a 40% markup on price for this generation of skate vs the equivalent previous gen. I agree the 7x4 does seem to be the value play, but I really dislike how none of True’s materials clarify any of this. It’s like they’re trying to deceive the customer. The catalog hints at it: https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:968e037d-fb71-4110-ba3d-4778ab89e1d1 The literature specifically says carbon fiber for the 9X4, but doesn't state the same for the 7X4. Edited July 16 by VegasHockey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper9 529 Report post Posted July 19 (edited) What's the weight difference between the 7 and 9? Without insoles. Also with the 9, do you choose what arch height you want for tht insoles or do they come with two? Edited July 19 by Sniper9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper9 529 Report post Posted July 20 (edited) So looks like True is doing SMUs now... https://www.thehockeyshop.com/products/true-catalyst-arc-senior-hockey-skates The shell looks carbon fiber but description says it's injection molden. Edited July 20 by Sniper9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sprungdownunder 18 Report post Posted July 20 (edited) 16 hours ago, Sniper9 said: What's the weight difference between the 7 and 9? Without insoles. Also with the 9, do you choose what arch height you want for tht insoles or do they come with two? Ice warehouse lists the 7x4 at 1007 grams & the 9x4 at 1013 grams. I was leaning towards upgrading my skates to the 9x4 but they are priced the same as the XF Pro's & in my opinion CCMs have alot more going for them, lighter, better holders/steel,Fors composite looks like it will stand up to game wear better & the internal padding looks comfortable. They should of kept last year's prices then the 9x4 would of been a more compelling purchase over the stiff opposition. Edited July 20 by Sprungdownunder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper9 529 Report post Posted July 20 4 hours ago, Sprungdownunder said: Ice warehouse lists the 7x4 at 1007 grams & the 9x4 at 1013 grams. I was leaning towards upgrading my skates to the 9x4 but they are priced the same as the XF Pro's & in my opinion CCMs have alot more going for them, lighter, better holders/steel,Fors composite looks like it will stand up to game wear better & the internal padding looks comfortable. They should of kept last year's prices then the 9x4 would of been a more compelling purchase over the stiff opposition. I get raising the prices but $400 more cdn is a lot. Having a quarter package material where the damage doesn't spread is key. Ie curv composite and Fors composite (from what I've seen). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westside 232 Report post Posted July 20 (edited) On 7/19/2024 at 10:20 PM, Sniper9 said: So looks like True is doing SMUs now... https://www.thehockeyshop.com/products/true-catalyst-arc-senior-hockey-skates Interesting the vent hole on the bottom looks more finished like what CCM/Bauer do vs the other True skates where it looks like someone just drilled a hole in the shell and left it unfinished 9x4 left, arc SMU right Edited July 22 by Westside Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westside 232 Report post Posted July 20 Hit up the LHS to check out the new Cats. They only had SVH and Cat Pros on display, but thankfully they did have 9x4 in stock in the back. No 7x4 so I couldn’t compare the two. Tried on the 9x4 and it seemed well made compared to my Cat Pros. More interestingly, they had the 3D tongue on display which I was stoked to check out. The lattice structure was soft/squishy like a Tacks X helmet, but the t-guard portion was substantially stiffer/hard. Would really like to try them out, but I’d be concerned about durability. On the display tongue the velcro bit was glued on and already peeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper9 529 Report post Posted July 20 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Westside said: Hit up the LHS to check out the new Cats. They only had SVH and Cat Pros on display, but thankfully they did have 9x4 in stock in the back. No 7x4 so I couldn’t compare the two. Tried on the 9x4 and it seemed well made compared to my Cat Pros. More interestingly, they had the 3D tongue on display which I was stoked to check out. The lattice structure was soft/squishy like a Tacks X helmet, but the t-guard portion was substantially stiffer/hard. Would really like to try them out, but I’d be concerned about durability. On the display tongue the velcro bit was glued on and already peeling. Ya I figured the Velcro was stuck on like that since there's no stitching. It'll definitely eventually peel. Stitching probably doesn't hold up on that material either. Imo they should have the tongue wrapped in a lightweight material where the Velcro patch can be sewn on but I guess that takes away at the cool appearance of the 3d tongue. Did they say how much the tongue was? Edit: on the true site choosing the 3d tongue is $99 cdn more. So if they do sell it separately it'll be easily upwards ot $200. Edited July 20 by Sniper9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sprungdownunder 18 Report post Posted July 22 https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9sxyvoydke/?igsh=c2Ezdncwc3NvaXhh True posted on insta the only difference between the 9x4 & 7x4 is steel, insoles & aesthetics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flip12 712 Report post Posted July 22 5 hours ago, Sprungdownunder said: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9sxyvoydke/?igsh=c2Ezdncwc3NvaXhh True posted on insta the only difference between the 9x4 & 7x4 is steel, insoles & aesthetics. Key differences not the only differences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
