althoma1

Sorry to read about your trouble. I'm surprised it's happened more than once with the axels in such a short time frame. I've only had an axel get stuck once in the 6 or so years I've used Sprungs. I did have the pivot pins get stuck a couple times and now I always make sure to dremel out grooves in the flat end to prevent this and haven't had any issues since doing this. Hopefully you can reach Keith as if all else fails a new rocker arm would make the skates useable (of course you'd also need one new wheel, two bearings and a spacer).

A lot of people in Canada Monday off because Canada Day fell on a Tuesday. Many decided to just take the whole week. Scott may either be off for the week or he was off Monday and Tuesday and came back to a pile of emails he has to dig through. Vacation season has begun.

The main difference I noticed with the RBZ shin guards vs the CLs is that they have Lycra straps instead of standard elastic straps. To me the Lycra straps felt like they allowed me to get a tighter, more secure and also more comfortable fit with the RBZ pads than I remember being able to achieve when I tried on the CLs last year. In this video the CCM Protective Line Manager mentions the changes in the RBZ shin pads starting at about 1:20. She mentions that the shell better aligns with the knee cap and that they revised the strapping system and how some of the foams fit so you get a closer fit. Based on this, the tweaks in the shell along with the strapping likely both contributed to the more secure and comfortable fit I experienced vs. the CLs.

I was impressed with the RBZ shins as well when I tried them on. I tried on the elbows and shoulders they felt the same as the CLs, but with a bit more coverage. The RBZ shins have neoprene type straps which I found much more comfortable and secure than the CL straps. The pad also felt very comfortable overall and fit my legs well. I still prefer my Projekt elbows to the RBZs (and anything else I've ever tried on) and my Farrell shoulders feel more mobile and comfortable to me than the RBZ shoulders (although the RBZs are certainly lighter and would retain less water), but the RBZ shins did feel more comfortable than my Projekt shins. It wasn't enough of a jump for me to buy them right there, but the next time I'm in the market for shins they'll certainly be on my short list.

It's great to hear feedback from someone who has used both. The Sprungs allowing for a varying number of wheels to be in contact due to the dual suspension lead me to believe they'd mimic the feel of a curved ice blade a bit better, but having never used the Marsblade chassis I wasn't completely sure. I'll definitely be curious to read your full review once you've had a chance to use the Marsblade in some games. If you still have the Sprungs and ever have back to back games it'd be great if you could use each chassis for one game...or if you had a 2 hour pickup session use each chassis for an hour. It sounds like your Sprungs may be retired though based on earlier posts.

1. Kor Shift 1 2. Kor Shift 2 3. CCM 652 Pump Tacks 4. Nike V12 Flexlite 5. Nike Ignite 1

If you're skating in a really small rink then the shorter wheel base and turning radius of the all 72mm wheels may be helpful, however; if you're skating in a full sized rink I'd go with all 76mm. You'll gain speed and won't loose much mobility at all. Since you're using either 72mm or 76mm I assume you went with the A6 chassis and that chassis has the shortest wheel base of all the Sprungs. That's the one I use and I'm happy with the all 76mm setup (I've used all 72mm with old flat chassis in the past). Going form 72mm to 76mm won't be a quantum leap in speed, but it'll help. Oh, and I'd actually use the hardest wheel in the back position - that's the wheel that will wear fastest with Sprungs (by far). Personally, I currently use 78a 76mm wheels (Rink Rat Hot Shots) in the first three spots and an 84a outdoor wheel (Rink Rat World Cup) in the back spot on Sport court.

Other than adding lifts or changing the mounting position (not really recommended as they're designed to be used mounted as instructed) there's not a lot you can do to customize the feel of the Sprungs. If you're using an A6 chassis you can use all 72mm or all 76mm wheels or if you're using the A7/A8 you can use all 76mm or all 80mm. You should not mix wheel sizes. You can of course also use different durometers, but I'd recommend erring on the side of harder wheels. The Sprungs add more grip and if you use a wheel that's too soft it can feel like you're skating in mud - they feel better with harder wheels. Cosmetically they can definitely be customized - mainly people have used plastic dye to dye them different colours as I'm sure you saw if you browsed through the Sprung thread. Some people have had trouble reaching Sprung recently, but as far as I know they received a new shipment of frames and parts in the fall and are up and running. I received my latest frames this past November.

I can't take credit for the instructions - those were originally posted by the creator of Sprungs (on his old site) and are also included in the comments of the YouTube video. That Mission boot wasn't the best fit for my foot so I only used that one for one season. I tried the Mission Boss boots as well, but again they weren't the best fit for my feet. My favourite combos have been the Sprungs with Torspo Surge 221 (same mold as KOR Shift 1's) and my main current pair is a pair of KOR Shift 2 boots with the latest model of the Sprung A6 chassis. The Torspo and KOR boots are stiff, responsive and fit me quite well after baking. The other nice thing about the Torspos and Shift 2's is they both have the carbon unibase which allows for a good solid mount (although the mounts were also solid on both Mission boots that had separate composite outsoles). I also use KOR Shift 2's to play ice hockey and Shift 1's to ref. So the fact that I have the same fit for ice and roller, in addition to the Sprungs, probably also helps me switch back and forth without issue.

No problem. If you do get the Sprungs just make sure they're mounted properly. They should be centered left to right, but 1/4" back from center front to back. Here are the mounting instructions: 1) Find something that shows up on the sole and mark the center of the toe and heel on the sole. Check the boot and sole to best find the center spots. 2) Draw a line from the toe spot to the heel spot. 3) Find the center of the line on the sole between the end edges of the sole and mark it. 4) Measure 1/4" toward the heel from the center point and mark this point with a line across the sole at 90 degrees to the center line. 5) Align the frame with the center of the toe mount and heel mount on the center line, and the horizontal cross member in the center of the frame lined up with the horizontal line on the sole (# 4). 6 Drill the holes through the frame (you can drill inward a little to avoid hitting the frame with the drill, and they will mount easier because of the slight angle). Or mark the mount holes through the frame and drill with the frame removed. 7) ENJOY Here's a good YouTube video if you want to try doing it yourself, but I just had mine done at a LHS and brought the instructions emphasizing they should be 1/4" back from centre front to back:

I'll quote myself from 2008: I remember doing several laps in both and always being faster in the Sprungs. The closest I was able to get in the Tuuk Rockers was approximately 2 seconds slower than the slowest Sprung lap and the largest gap was around 3 seconds. It wasn't entirely scientific as it was just me, a couple pairs of skates and a stop watch on an outdoor rink - the bearings and wheels were the same type (crappy outdoor wheels and bearings), but the boots were different (New Mission L7 boots with the Sprungs vs. used Nike V12 Flexlite boots with the Tuuk rocker) so perhaps the stiffer L7 boots also helped improve the times. The Sprungs should be faster though since you'd have more wheels in contact with the surface when pushing off and turning. It's been 6 years since I started using Sprungs and stopped using the Tuuk Rocker, but I still feel that the Sprungs are a significant upgrade. You can get better starts, turn faster and the skating feels smoother and the stride is closer to that of an ice stride. After using the Sprungs for a couple games there was no way I was ever going back to the Tuuk Rocker. The Tuuk Rocker is more durable and requires less maintenance so that may be better for outdoor use, but for competitive indoor roller hockey the Sprungs are the far better choice. The durability has been improved with the higher quality plastic and thicker rocker knuckles on the new A6 chassis, but you still have to clean and hydrate them (conditions the plastic - if you let the plastic dry out it can be more susceptible to breaking) about once a month if you want them to last as long as possible.

There are already a couple topics that compare the Tuuk Rocker to the Sprungs: http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/28133-is-the-tuuk-rocker-chassis-similar-to-the-sprung/ http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/37963-tuuk-rocker-vs-sprung-a6/ I believe this post by MDE3 does the best job at providing more details comparing the two chassis and how they work:

Yes, that sounds like Sport Court. I'd stick with hard indoor wheels like the 78a you've been using. If you want to use one harder wheel I'd put it at the back as that wheel always seems to wear fastest with Sprungs. I have used a rocker setup in the past and compared to Sprungs it was slower and more awkward. The Sprungs allow you to turn just as fast, but are smoother faster and more stable than a rockered setup.

What surface are you skating on? For Sport Court a 78a indoor wheel is certainly hard enough. I meant the hardest high end indoor wheel that I can find and not necessarily the hardest wheel period. That's what I use for the first 3 wheels. I use 78a Rink Rat Hot shots and then an 84a World Cup wheel in the back (which are meant for outdoors, but are dual pour wheels that I find work for me on the back). Before that I was using the Revision Steel wheels which I believe are also 78a. If you're on Sport Court I'd stick with 78a for sure if you aren't slipping out. That's about the hardest Sport Court wheel most companies make anyway (especially in the higher in dual pour wheels). If you're on smooth concrete you may want to move to a harder single pour wheel as for some reason those seem to work better for concrete. If you're outdoors then you'll definitely want an outdoor wheel. If you're lighter you could probably also get away with 76a wheels for Sport Court (before the Revision Steels were available I used Revision Bronze and they're 76a), but I definitely wouldn't go lower than that with Sprungs. Definitely don't rocker the Sprung chassis - use all 76mm or all 72mm wheels if you get the A6 chassis. I use all 76mm, but all 72mm would work if you really want to be as close to the ground as possible. Just don't mix the sizes. You'll loose a bit of speed if you go with all 72mm. If you get an A7 or A8 you can either use all 76mm or all 80mm, but don't mix the two. The Sprungs only work properly if you use wheels that are all the same size and you'll void the 1 year warranty and add undue stress on the parts if you mix sizes.

They're the best option I've used as far as replicating an ice like feeling. As previously mentioned I've used the old Tuuk Rocker and I've also tried rockering the wheels on a flat chassis and prefer the Sprungs. As for durability, I used my original A6 chassis for about 4 years before I retired it, but probably went through at least one complete set of rocker arms during that time. There were a few reasons for this: The knuckles on the A6 arms were a weak point on the original version. The new version has beefed up knuckles with tighter tolerances.When I first started using them I didn't realize you had to condition them or clean them every once in a while (about once a month is good) and when the plastic gets dry it's more likely to break.I'm bigger/heavier than the average player and was jumping over the boards on changes like I do on ice, but now I just go through the door to avoid putting extra stress on the knuckles.Also, if you don't take apart and clean the chassis on a regular basis the dirt that gets inside will cause friction and wear down the part of the chassis that holds the arms as well as the outside of arms themselves. This isn't as big of a problem where the rear arms are connected as the connection point is deeper. It's more of a problem in the front where the connection point is shallower - if you don't clean them regularly then they'll loosen up quite a bit after a few years. You'll still be able to use them, but they won't be as responsive as when they were new. If you're using them outside you should clean them even more often as the dirt you'll find outside is generally more abrasive than the dirt and dust on indoor courts. With all of that said, I still wouldn't move to a flat chassis unless I had no other options. None of the new beefed up rocker arms have broken on me in the few months I've been using them. They're wearing well, but I also clean and condition them about once a month and haven't jumped over the boards with them. The tolerances are tighter and the springs are stiffer so they also feel faster and more responsive. As far as Justin's comments, I have to respect them as he has years of experience designing roller hockey specific products. I too felt a bit unbalanced on one set I had (I've had a few on a few different boots over the years) as they were mounted too far forward. Once I was on a pair that was properly mounted the balance wasn't an issue. They have to be mounted just right - you or the shop you take them to has to mount them exactly like the instructions state - 1/4" back of center. I doubt this was Justin's issue since he'd be able to mount skates very well with all his experience, but a mount that is off will certainly cause issues. A well worn chassis that hasn't been cleaned will also provide more play - the older models in general will provide more play as the springs aren't as stiff. If you use wheels that are too soft with Sprungs they will feel slow. Sprungs need harder wheels for the suspension to work effectively. I first tested out the Sprungs with outdoor wheels and was happy with them, but when I first used them indoors I was a bit disappointed as it did feel slower. This was corrected when I put on harder wheels. So I still recommend them, but for best results: Buy the newest model. The knuckles are beefed up, the plastic is supposed to be of higher quality and the springs are stiffer.Clean them and soak the plastic parts regularlyDon't hop the boardsGo with harder wheels than you'd use for a traditional chassis. I always use the hardest indoor wheels I can find and even use an outdoor wheel on the back as that wheel always wears fastest.Make sure they're mounted 1/4" back from centerThe Marsblade Wicked3Aussie mentioned is also supposed to replicate an ice feel. I'd be curious to try that as well, but it's even more than the Sprungs at the moment, but do come with wheels and bearings. I noticed on their Facebook page they indicate they're launching in Canada in the summer of 2014 (they even had some ads at the MasterCard Center in Toronto). Perhaps the price will come down a bit and there will be a chassis only option at that point. Since I'm already comfortable with Sprungs I don't know if I'd shell out the coin to try Marsblades though unless I heard from other Sprung users that they were significantly better or if Sprungs were no longer available. So I can see why people who are already comfortable with whatever chassis they're currently using wouldn't switch to Sprungs. In a case where you're looking to replicate an ice like feel then the Sprungs and Marsblades are two options to consider.

If you just leave the plastic be it can get dry and can lead to breakage problems so every once in a while you should take apart the chassis and soak the plastic parts in water to condition the plastic. The plastic will suck the moisture up and this will make it more durable. As for the wheels - sprung uses either all 76mm wheels or all 80mm wheels depending on the size of chassis you get. People coming from a Hi-lo chassis may only have 4 80mm wheels and 4 76mm or 72mm wheels instead of 8 76mm or 80mm wheels. If you need an A6 (small) chassis and have 8 76mm wheels you like then you're set or if you're using an A7 or A8 you can use either all 76mm or 80mm wheels, but most people seem to use 80mm wheels. One other note about the wheels - most people seem to be able to use a harder wheel with Sprungs - if you were previously using 74a wheels you may want to go up to 76a wheels. The Sprungs naturally provide more grip and if you use wheels that are overly soft it can feel like you're skating in mud. I personally use 78a wheels in the first 3 slots and 84a in the last one indoors on Sport Court, but I'm also over 200lbs.

Wouldn't an integrated sternum pad be less mobile than the floating sternum?

I like them and think most players who played ice first and then roller will really like them. Roller first players could also benefit, but may not want to change from what's always worked for them. I think these are the challenges that prevent them from being more widely used: 1. Right now it's generally more expensive to go with a stand alone chassis like the Sprung, attach them to either roller or ice boots and buy the necessary wheels than to just get boots that already have a chassis and wheels. (personally, no stock wheels would work well for me anyway as all the high end skates come with super soft wheels that aren't appropriate for bigger/heavier players, but stock wheels work well for some players) 2. People either don't have a hockey shop near them that they trust to mount the chassis or don't feel comfortable mounting one themselves. 3. Players that started with roller and not ice are used to the hi-lo and hummer chassis and may not feel the need to change - especially if they have to spend more money. 4. They require more maintenance than an aluminum chassis - cleaning them and conditioning the plastic. They're the best chassis I've used and I do recommend them, but not everyone is going to want to spend the money and time on them.

I've been using the chassis for years and the newer revision for a few months. The previous A6 chassis had issues with the knuckles cracking, but I haven't experienced this with the new chassis. In the past I've used the Tuuk rocker chassis and before that a flat all 76mm chassis. I've never used the hi-lo or hummer chassis so can't compare it to those, but prefer it to the tuuk rocker or flat chassis. I find it allows you to turn tighter, stop faster and get full stride extension. It also makes the transition between ice and roller easier. As of November I exchanged emails with the owner and received the new product. I didn't have a problem getting email responses, but others seem to have had trouble getting in touch recently.

Insurance finally got back to me about the car issue I vented about. The adjuster apologized for taking so long to get back to me and told me that: - They're writing me a cheque instead of repairing the car and the $1000 deductible will be deducted from that cheque. I did manage to get the amount bumped up a little when I mentioned recently purchasing a new battery and two new tires. - They don't consider me at fault for the accident, my rates will not go up and I won't have to use my accident forgiveness option for this claim. - The subrogation department is going to go after the city for the claim and if they're successful I will get my $1000 deductible back (I was going to bring up subrogation, but the adjuster mentioned it first). - I can take the two winter tires off the car and replace them with my all season tires if I'd like. As long as there are 4 tires on the car that's fine. - I don't have rental coverage, but thankfully my in-laws have loaned me their second car. If I do rent a car at any time before I get a new car I can send them the receipts and they can try to get that money back from the city as well. Now I'll likely be out of pocket a bit by the time I find another good used car (I'm likely going to try to find another 2004-2008 Mazda 6 hatchback with a V6 so I can use the winter tires, filters, and oil I already have, but will consider other options), but at least my rates won't go up. So it is still a hassle, but not as bad as I originally thought.

I'd go with the skate that you feel fits best. What other people wear, both pro and amateur, should not matter. The pitch can be adjusted if you find it's too agressive for you - there's been a lot of discussion that issue earlier in this thread. The Mako 2 is not the same skate with no no colours. See JRs 2014 Easton catalog review: http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/65281-2014-easton-hockey-catalogue/ I'm unaware of any Warrior trade in program. They only had the 60 day guarantee where if you bought a DT1 and didn't like it you could take it back within 60 days. Perhaps Easton will try something similar to get more people into the skates, but this thread is the only place I've heard that rumour. I definitely do not think that they'll be allowing people to trade in original Mako skates for Mako 2 skates unless there is a warranty issue with the Mako skates and they no longer have the Mako in that size. As for a release date, I believe the rep at Winterfest said the targeted release for the Mako 2 was August, but plans can change.

Meloche Monnex is my broker - I went through them because I obtained several quotes when hunting for insurance and their price with my Alumni group discount was by far the cheapest. The actual insurance provider on the pink slip is Security national. I say this year because I noticed in previous years it said Standard Insurance or something like that so I guess Meloche Monnex shops around for the cheapest provider each year. I did pay for the accident forgiveness so my rates shouldn't go up this time. I filed the claim on Tuesday afternoon through a phone rep and was given the adjusters name and number, but haven't been able to touch base with him yet. I have left two Voice Mail messages. It didn't help that I use VOIP and my place had no power for most of today - there's a chance he could've been calling while the power was out. It was only supposed to be out from 9am-12:30pm, but it was out until after 3pm as the maintenance took longer than expected. I managed to hook up my phone to the emergency power in the hall before the phone interview I was supposed to have, but there was a power surge about 10 minutes in which reset my adapter and modem. Thankfully the interviewer was understanding and we're going to reschedule for tomorrow. 99% of the time the VOIP is quite reliable, but obviously isn't when there are power issues. If I had my car I would've driven to a friend or family members house. I hadn't given my cell number since it's an emergency pay as you go phone, plus it was low on batteries due to the outage (didn't realize there was power in the hall until I was about to leave to go to a public library to access the net and get in touch with the company at about 2pm). My in-laws are going to lend me a car on Saturday if I don't have rental coverage. I'll bring up the term subrogate when I finally connect with the adjuster. I don't have a specific broker. I have a company that acts as a broker and they have a call center full of reps. I have been assigned an adjuster, but haven't been able to speak to him yet. Thank you all for your thoughts and advice.

I paid for a 4 wheel alignment in November, a new car battery in December and two new winter tires last Friday night. Then on Saturday evening, I was driving home and did not see a big pot hole since the sun was setting, there was a puddle flush with the road and the portion of the road that had a the pot hole was darker than the rest of the road due to a previous repair. I hit the pot hole at approximately 60 km/h and heard a large bang and felt the car bottom out. It was apparent I had a flat tire and I slowed down and safely pulled over. When I got out of the car I noticed that not only was the tire flat, but the side skirt on the passenger side was barely hanging on. On the other side the tire was not flat, but one of the treads was torn off (I believe this was caused by loose asphalt on the road). So I'm thinking I'll probably have to get 2 new tires, possibly a new rim and get the skirt put back on. I missed roller hockey Sunday because I didn't want to drive on the space saver tire any more than necessary. I picked up two used tires and then carefully drive to my mechanics on Monday. He showed me all the damage I didn't notice - there was damage to the front bumper, right fender, right mudguard, right panel, entire front right suspension (bent), right tie rod, steering boot, wheel hub, stabilizer boot and rocker moulding. Oh, and the skirt would likely have to be replaced as well. The repair estimate was $5053.06 - this is a 2005 Mazda 6 with just under 200 thousand km (125 thousand miles) on it so it's not really worth it for me to pay anywhere near that for repairs. I call my insurance company - I can pay a $1000 deductible as I'm considered at fault since it's a single vehicle accident. My premiums shouldn't go up this time since it's my first at fault accident and I have an accident forgiveness feature, but if something else happens in the near future my rates will skyrocket. They say I can try to make a claim with the City of Toronto so I look that up and then use my in-laws car to take pictures of the location on Monday. I notice in the light of day on Monday afternoon that there are wheel covers strewn around the area and a shredded tire so I wasn't the only one who had issues with this hole. The loose asphalt had been moved the the grass and there was caution tape wrapped around a nearby pole - it's right in front of a Catholic school so I think it's possible the school did this and not the city since the huge pot hole was still there and there wasn't even a caution cone. I then hear a story on the radio about pot holes (there are A LOT of them in Toronto right now since it was freezing at the beginning of last week and then we had a warm spell later in the week) and in the story they mention that 95% of claims to the City of Toronto are denied. The assistant manager at the auto shop told me another customer said that in order for the city to approve a damage claim you have to be able to prove they knew about the hole and didn't take action. So I called my insurance company and started a claim today. I also submitted a claim to the city, but they mention it takes on average 90 days for them to make a decision and I don't like the odds that they'll approve the claim since I don't have any concrete evidence that they knew about the hole and loose asphalt. Although one would think that someone would've reported that large of a hole and loose asphalt while it was visible during the day. It wasn't easy to see in the fading light. Oh, and I'm not sure if I'll have a rental car to get to the games I'm supposed to ref tomorrow - I'll get there by transit if I have to, but it'll take me 4x as long to get there and back. I'll have to talk to the insurance adjuster assigned to my case tomorrow. For this to happen while I'm not working full time and using officiating, a bit of freelance Marketing and writing work and my savings to get by is especially stressful. I do have a phone interview on Thursday, but my mind wants to focus on the car and finance issues rather than the interview. Sorry for the long post. I just really, really needed to vent. I know people have worse problems, but it sometimes it helps to get things off your chest.

+1. They felt very comfortable at WF. The ventilation aspect of the protective is nice for ice, but even better for roller players. That alone will get me to make a point of trying on and considering the shins the next time I'm in the market. It looks like the E28 has seen some success at retail since it's available on even the lower models of the new sticks. I'm glad to see a toe curve is gaining some traction. The marketing team did a good job pushing the dual lie aspect of the pattern. The fact that the "kreps" curve was coveted in some circles certainly didn't hurt either.

I use the Farrell 5 pad compression shorts as a girdle and like them, but they're hard to find in all sizes now since I don't believe they're being made anymore. The shock doctor shorts don't seem like a bad option. For shin guards I use the CCM SG100 shin guards - they're protective, but still low profile. I originally thought of just using my player pair, but they're a bit bulky for officiating and I also like the idea of having a completely separate setup for each activity as it does help avoid forgetting something. As others have mentioned, you don't have to get shin guards that say "referee" or "official" on them - just about anything that's low profile and has plastic protection for the shins will work. I started out just using a pair of cheap roller blading elbow pads. They did the job and were low profile, but the straps stretched out within a year and the pads started sliding down all the time. I picked up some Bauer 1000 Official's Elbow pads this year and they're low profile and are designed for arms extending straight rather than staying bent like player pads. They're also pretty affordable at around $30. I've used them for half a season and they're still in great shape and stay in place much better than the inline pads. I haven't fallen directly on my elbow while officiating, but they have a soft outer cap and an plastic insert for the elbow that should provide adequate protection for minor spills. There's not much to the forearm and bicep protection, but you don't really need that for officiating. I have the Fox40 whistle (two of them actually). When I was taking my first certification courses last year the Acme Thunderer was recommended because it's less shrill as laser bottom mentioned, but they said the Fox40 was also acceptable. I simply went with the Fox40 because it was cheaper and more readily available in my area. I was told to pick up two whistles and keep a backup in my pocket at all times in case the primary whistle stops working. I've done this, but so far both whistles have held up over a year and a half. For shin tights I use Hogan Hockey cut resistant referee shin tights with Kevlar. They're $32 + shipping vs paying $25-$30 for the Viceroy ones readily available in my area in stores. The Hogan ones add protection (that I haven't needed yet) and are quite durable. I've seen several officials with stretched out Viceroy tights, but my Hogan tights have held up very well. If you already have shin tights just use those, but if they wear out I'd consider the Hogan's in the future. I've tried a few jerseys and now only have a CCM pro and Bauer pro jerseys. I sold all the rec ones I had. The Pro jerseys have more room in the arms for padding which is more comfortable, are double stitched and are thicker so they're more durable than the rec jerseys. The one in the package you linked to earlier is a pro weight linesmen jersey with snaps for bands (usually when you're first starting you work in a two official system and don't need the bands) and would be a good one. I've been happy with the TronS30 Visor. Oh, and if you need to use a neck guard like we do in Canada then I highly recommend the Kevlar Bauer neck guards vs. the traditional foam ones. They're much more comfortable. I have a Bauer shirt with the neck guard built in.