althoma1

Well, I know I fit a 8EE Mako/Mako II with my toes lightly brushing the end and the Bauer 3D scanner says I'd be a 7.5 Fit 3 in Bauer...so based on that, the Bauer Fit 3 may be about a half size longer than a EE Mako. That's interesting that the EE Bauers are actually a little longer. It seems that the company should keep the length the same and only change the width, but based on your experience and Vet88's actual measurements, it does seem that the EE Bauers were longer than their D counterparts in the same size at some point. It's hard to say if that's still the case. Nothing will beat trying them on of course.

First, the EE Vapor may feel longer than the D Vapor simply because it's wider and isn't compressing the sides of your foot. When the side of your foot is compressed, it's elongated. I wear 8EE Mako II skates, but when I demoed Bauer skates at Modsquad events, I wore 7.5EE. I also scan as a 7.5 Fit 3 on the Bauer 3D scanner. I know in the Mako thread some people used the same size as Bauer, but others, like me, went up a half size. I also have a pair of True TF9 boots converted to inline and had to go down to 7W for those boots (the TF9 fits about a half size longer than Bauer and a full size longer than the Makos after baking and break in). Those are pretty similar to Makos, but are stiffer, have less flexible tendon guards and more volume in the toe cap. The new True Catalyst line has a more flexible tendon guard and a streamlined toecap; so, they're even more Makoesque. True adusted the sizing on those to better align with CCM and Bauer - so I believe I would need to go up to 7.5W with the Catalyst skates. In general, a half size is about a 4 to 5 mm difference in length.

The fact that you scan as a 7 doesn't surprise me at all since I wear 10W dress shoes and scan as a 7.5 Fit 3. Sizing can of course vary by brand and model, while I'd be a 7.5 Fit 3 in Bauer, I have 7W in True Tf9s converted for inline and 8EE in Easton Mako II's. Fit 3 is the deepest and widest Bauer skate and a D Vapor would be the shallowest and narrowest. So, the Vapor 8.5Ds were obviously way too narrow and long for your feet. That would certainly explain the discomfort. It's good you went with fit over brand. I hope the ASV's treat you well.

The 8090's in D were more like an E width in most skates. They're definitely both wider and deeper than a D width Vapor. The Bauer length also changed sometime after the 8090 came out - most people needed to go down a half a size. So, if you picked up Vapors in the same size as your old 8090s, you may have bought skates that are too long and too narrow for your feet. They may have felt like the right length because the sides compressed your foot and made them feel shorter than they really are. I'd start by going to a good shop with a Bauer 3D scanner and get your feet scanned. That will give you a good starting point as it'll recommend a size and Fit for Bauer, but try on various skates around that size in all the brands and models you can.

Either buy serviceable bearings (the ones you can take the covers off) and clean and relube them a couple times a year or buy really cheap bearings and replace them a few times a year. I notice a big difference between cheap and quality wheels, but I can't say I notice a big difference in bearings. I'll usually use bearings for a while indoors and then relegate them to outdoor use when they get a bit loud (even after cleaning and relubing if they're serviceable), but still spin fine. If they aren't rolling smoothly and they can't be serviced then they're thrown out.

I have TF9 boots converted for inline and they're very good boots, but the toe cap isn't quite as comfortable for me as the Mako toe cap. I tried on a pair of Catalyst skates the other day and the Catalyst toe cap feels VERY similar to the old Mako toe cap. I believe that they'll also be using the same toe cap on the new Hzrdus skate that will replace the TF line this summer.

You can't make any boots smaller or remove negative space. There's no brand or model that allows for this. You're right, the thermoformability of Trues makes them expand around your feet, plus you can get a good wrap, but it definitely doesn't allow them to shrink around your feet. Beyond thermoformability, with Trues or any skate brand, you can punch or stretch them to make them wider, longer or deal with pressure points. Plus, padding compresses with use. That's why if you're between sizes, it's generally better to go with the smaller size. With Trues, it's ideal to have them feel too small and a bit too tight before baking and break in. If you feel room before baking, that's definitely not going to go away with baking - you'll only get more room after baking and break in.

I guess I have hallway shaped feet as the TF9 boots in W really hug my feet, but I scan as a Fit 3. For Fit 1 type feet, I can imagine the hotdog in a hallway feeling would be accurate. I experienced that feeling when I tried in Nexus skates (my forefoot is wide, but my heel and ankle isn't) years ago.

I agree that the TF series isn't ideal Fit 1 type feet. In the TF series the R width is more likely to work for a Fit 2 type foot and the Wide is actually a bit wider in the forefoot than Fit 3, but provides better heel lock for my feet and has average depth. From what I have read, the Catalyst line in R would be much better than the TF series for a Fit 1 foot.

A couple things that may help getting them on and off: Make sure you really loosen the laces and completely undo the top two eyelets (to rethread the top two eyelets when they're on your feet, thread behind the tongue and then pull the laces in front) Twist your foot in and out. If you're already doing those two things and still have pain, try spot heating and flaring out the top of the boot a bit, like in this video: That won't help with the negative space, but should solve issues with getting them on and off. If the negative space is width wise, there may not be much you can do. If you're talking about the negative space above the toe box then powerfoot inserts or a homemade version of those could help. If you have a narrow foot, the Catalyst line in True might work better for your feet than the TF series. I have a wide forefoot and there's very little negative space in my TF9s - each foot is different though.

I would do the wrap first, see how that feels and if you still want to to try to tighten things up, you could try spot heating and clamping. Generally, it's hard to remove negative space in any boot - it's easier to gain a little space by heating, punching/stretching and just by padding compressing over time. That's why having a skate that's a little too snug to start isn't terrible. If it starts out too roomy, it's harder to deal with that. With all of that said, my experience with the TF9 has only been in Wide. I assume you ordered the R width and that won't be as wide in the forefoot as the W models. Hopefully they'll work well for you. If not, you could give the Catalyst 9's a shot with their 30 day satisfaction guarantee or see how the Hzrdus skates fit when they come out this summer.

Like Sniper9, I've just done a lot of research and I also have a pair of TF9s converted to inline that I did an in depth review on for a roller hockey blog. My primary ice skates for both reffing and playing are Easton Mako II's which are based on a similar zero negative space speed skate inspired concept and before that I was using KOR skates that were also speed skate inspired monocoque boots. Plus, I have average to narrow heels/ankles and a very wide forefoot - the TF series in W seems to be the only thing out there right now that works for me - the Bauer and CCM skates have moved to a narrow all over, average all over or wide all over fit. I need snug in the back and roomy in the front. I really don't care which brand makes the skate as long as it fits well, True is just the best fit for me at the moment without having to pay for custom skates. For you, I don't know if the TF series would be the fit you want because you specifically mentioned not wanting space in the toe box. They work for me because I have a very wide forefoot. I haven't tried on the Catalyst skates, but from what I can see and read, they've definitely removed a lot of negative space in that area with that lineup. They may do the same thing with the Hzrdus skate that's supposed to replace the TF line in the summer, but we won't know for sure until they're out in the summer. I actually don't know if I'd fit in the Catalyst myself since I'm hearing they aren't as wide in the forefoot and I need the width in that area that the TF series provides. I'm hoping the Hzrdus will fit - I still have a stockpile of Mako II skates, but when those are depleted I'd prefer to be able to hunt for a deal on stock skates rather than having to pay up for customs. As @Hills said, I was referring to Cat Pros and the steps I listed were just cut and paste from the True site. The SVH Customs are made custom to your feet based on the scans - if you want a completely custom skate and are willing to pay for it, I believe the SVH Custom is the way to go. I'll get by with clearance or sale top end retail boots for as long as possible - if none of those fit, then I'd consider customs.

The True app is probably sizing you for the latest line, the Catalyst. They adjusted the sizing with the Catalyst to be closer to Bauer and CCM lengthwise. It's the TF9 and TF7 that were longer than Bauer and CCM in the same size and that's not the case with the Catalyst. To the best of my knowledge, the SVH Customs are the custom version of the TF line and upcoming Hzrdus line. It's a custom boot built around your scan. The Catalyst Pro is the custom version of the Catalyst, but it's not built from the ground up using your scan like the SVH Custom. They call it their "tailored" custom option. Here's what they do: STEP 1: INITIAL FOOT ASSESSMENT Determine if size, width and general foot shape are within parameters STEP 2: 3D ANATOMICAL FOOT SCAN Identify the perfect shell size for player's feet in up-to-quarter sizing STEP 3: TAILORED IN CANADA Internal layers and thermoformable materials of the skate are personally tailored to exact shape of foot STEP 4: ADDED PERSONALIZATION Tongue and steel can be personalized with player's name and number STEP 5: PICK UP + HEAT MOLD Skates arrive at retail location for prescriptive heat molding to take place So, they can use quarter sizes and add some thermoformable material, but they're using a selection of shells that already exist.

That's a good point, but the True skates are designed to be baked, so it's unfair to compare them unbaked to a skate that doesn't change much after baking (like an older Bauer boot where baking only helps with break in). If you are comparing them both after baking, then it's a good comparison.

You're both referring to Oggie grips. The page hasn't had any new posts since 2014, but there are still pictures: https://www.facebook.com/oggiegrips/

You don't gain much, if anything, widthwise. I had to spot heat some areas in the forefoot/toebox myself. The space you gain from the foams compressing is lengthwise. I prefer to have my toes brushing when standing straight and only coming off when my knees are bent in an athletic skating position - that's why I'm in a half size smaller than I was scanned for in Bauer skates and a full size smaller than my Easton Makos. If you don't like your toes to touch and still have good heel lock, I can see why you'd go with the same size as Bauer/CCM. The powerfoot inserts, or trying to make your own from some dollar store foam will solve the toebox volume issue.

Even after baking, you still gain room after about 10 or more hours of hard skating as the foams compress (I'd say about another quarter size). So, what may feel like the right size now, may be a little roomy after some time. The only way you'll know is by skating on them and seeing - that's why the 30 day satisfaction guarantee on the True skates was great when they first came out. I doubt that'll apply to clearance skates, but at the prices they're going at, it's worth the gamble and you'd probably be able to resell them if necessary without losing too much money if they end up being too big. The foams that take up space above the toe box are called powerfoot inserts. With that said, adjusting the tongue as low as it can go in the toe box is a good, free first step that you can try to see if that helps.

As a fellow fat duck footed individual, I wish you the best of luck. Keep in mind that even after baking, you'll gain an extra few mm of space after you skate in them for 10+ hours and the padding compresses.

They're definitely a pain to fit and I only ended up in a size that feels right to me by reading through threads like this one and watching @Hills sizing video on YouTube. The 30 day satisfaction guarantee helps with current True models, however; that likely doesn't apply to the clearance skates. The fact that the sizing was changed again with the new Catalyst line has pros and cons. On the one hand, people coming from CCM and Bauer might have an easier time if the sizing lines up, but people that finally figured out their True TF7/9 sizing will have to start over again. It'd be nice if the True scanning app could be used to recommend a skate size instead of only scanning for custom skates. Like the CCM and Bauer scans, that'd only be a starting point and you'd still have to get the skates baked on your feet, but it'd would hopefully get people pretty close to the right size.

Yes, the True TF skates are definitely the closest skates I've found to the Makos. The TF7s have a way thicker tongue vs. the TF9s, so that might make them feel a little smaller in the same size. I haven't had a chance to try on the Catalyst skates yet, but from what I've read/heard, the sizing is closer to Bauer/CCM and they aren't quite as wide as the TF skates. It's great that the flex tendon guard is available aftermarket and can easily be used on the TF skates.

With the TF9 skates, if they feel like the right size before baking and break in, they'll likely end up being too long. The correct size should have your toes hard against the cap before baking (not bent) and feel a bit too small. It's good that you have 7 days to send them back - don't judge the sizing until after baking them properly (200F for 10 minutes and use the luggage wrap method Scott Van Horne demonstrates on Youtube). Even after baking you'll gain a few more mm of space once they break in and the padding compresses a bit.

I don't think he tried on the 7.5W as it wasn't available - he tried 7.5R and 8R. The store didn't have the W sizes. I also have 8EE Mako II skates and when I tried the TF9s before baking, the 8W was obviously too big, the 7.5W felt like the right size before baking and the 7W had my toes HARD on the cap and felt too small. I still went with the 7W for an inline conversion and after baking and break in, the 7W actually feels close to the 8EE Mako II in size, maybe ever so slightly smaller. I'd think the 7.5W would be a little bit longer than the 8EE Mako II after baking and break in. Externally, when I put the 7W TF9 and 8EE Makos side by side, they definitely seem to be the same length and depth. On the Bauer 3D Fit machine I scan as a 7.5 Fit 3. It's common for people to go down a half size vs. CCM and Bauer with the TF9 and TF7 skates. With the Catalyst line, I believe they adjusted the sizing and that's no longer the case.

If you're an 8EE in CCM, you're likely a 7.5W in the TF9s. You'll gain about half a size in length after baking and break in. The 8W will likely be too long after baking and break in. In the right size, your toes should be hard against the cap before baking with the TF9s.

If 6.5 feels like the right length in Bauer Supreme, I would definitely go with a 6 in the TF series. You then need to choose between the R width and W. If you are a EE or Fit 3 Supreme, wide makes sense. If you are a D Supreme, then I would stick with R. Either way, the right size in the TF skates will feel too small before baking. Your toes will be hard on the cap. After baking and break in, you gain about a half size in length. At least that was my experience with the TF9.

I had the same experience with the sizing of the Reakt vs. Fitlite Titanium. The Fitlite in large was longer and wider and fit my face and helmet better. I haven't attempted to change the chin cup on mine, but hope someone else can answer that for both of us.