Larry54

Just want to add that Sniper9 said that his LHS installed 2 steel rivets on the latest holder where True had installed 2 copper rivets on the original holder.

I think it was about CCM inner sole.

Is there any kind of concrete study to justify quad profiles, or are we just relying on the word of ProSharp and those who promote it, anecdotal evidence, and to a certain extent placebo effect? In a Google search I even came across some who've tried it and felt it's mostly a gimmick. Who knows, maybe it can even be detrimental if you're muscle memory is continually adjusting from one radius to another depending on what area of the blade your weight is on. I doubt that, but the skeptic in me wonders if it isn't just a solution looking for a problem, or just good marketing. Sometimes we do things just because we can. Maybe just a single profile with the right pitch is just as good. I mean I have all the speed and agility that I need with a simple 10' profile with neutral pitch, but I worked on my skating to get it rather than chasing new profiles. I just wonder if exploring quad profiles is worth my time.

I'm aware of that since it's good to maintain a profile even if it's just a simple single profile, just for consistency. I'm specifically asking about the use of quad profiles in the NHL. The people in these forums who deal with NHL players must have a good idea about what I'm asking.

Just out of curiosity, which NHL players use quad profiles? What percentage of them do?

First I placed the tongues in far enough so that the top of the Velcro tab aligned with the top of the Velcro on the tongue. But the Velcro on the ceiling of the toe cap was snagging my socks so I bought some 1/4" thick felt insoles at the dollar store. I cut the heel off of each insole just long enough to fit on the ceiling of the toe cap in front of the tongue. The felt stuck adequately to the Velcro so no adhesive required. And it removed some space above my toes while protecting my socks from the velcro.

The only creaking I've noticed on my VH skates is when I flex the right tendon guard with my hand. FWIW, I have LS2 holders.

I feel the same way. You can tweak the nut to get the tightness just right on the LS2. With the Edge, you're relying on close tolerances in the latching mechanism which can't be adjusted.

The more posts I read about the LS Edge, the happier I am that I chose LS2 holders.

I may be a bit anal about these things but I would ask to have them bake one skate at a time so you can focus 100% on each skate.

When I changed skates, I went from very worn LS2 263 blades to Step (default profile) 254 also in LS2 holder. There was a small adjustment period but I got used to them. The fact that the Step runner is slightly longer than an LS2 runner and is a bit flatter at the heel may have helped me avoid balance problems with the smaller holder. I don't know how the original Graf runner compares to the Step runner for Graf holder, but just changing to a Step runner might be an option if you don't already have Step runners in your Graf 254 holders.

That just looks like one of the older VH skate models but with True tongues. I wonder if he has bigger feet than Chara who has the regular True toe cap.

306 is 10mm (3/8") longer than 296. Does it look like the boot can handle an extra 3/8" of holder length without sticking out at the front or back? If yes, is the left skate shorter, and if it is, can it also handle a 306 holder?

I'm still using the stock footbeds with the red liner. I tried without the liner but ended up putting it back in. However, I cut a small section out of the red liner at the instep because I felt it pushing up a bit on my low arch. I thought about trying Speedplates to get the fully molded experience but my feet feel secure on the stock footbeds.

But with less air resistance, you'll strike the ice a bit harder, load the stick a bit more. Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

But the actual speed wasn't the point. The point was that the same player got a higher puck speed with the airblade than with his usual stick. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

I've been wondering about that. The Step holders "look" massive but I was wondering if they actually were heavier. And how thick are the heel foxings? How do they affect the holder pitch?

I have a little tip for later VH skates, and True skates if they stayed the same as the VH skates. The velcro under the strip that attaches to the tongue extends into the toe cap all the way to the tip of the toes. My liner socks would get snagged by the velcro hooks and would probably eventually get runs and wear out prematurely. So I got some thick felt insoles at the dollar store and cut out some pieces to stick to the velcro on the ceiling of the toe cap. They stick well enough to the velcro so no glue is required. They also sort of act like powerfoot inserts and make the toe cap nice and comfy.

I wonder if the heel cup acts as a shim on the rear tower to adjust the pitch of the Step holder. Maybe the Step holder has a negative pitch and needs the heel cup to give it a neutral pitch equivalent to LS holders?

I'm very curious as to what will come of these. But logic leads me to skepticism. The recurring theme in the videos is "Wow, these make skating so much easier." But easier doesn't necessarily mean better performance. In cycling, touring bicycles are much easier to ride than racing road bikes. Because of their geometry, the twitchy race bikes require more skill and focus to ride than touring bikes. But racers favor the liveliness of the race bike over the stability of the touring geometry in order to be able to suddenly shift position in a race... performance over ease of use. Kgbeast mentioned heel digs and toe carves. With the rocking of the Marsblades, will one have to lower his heels or lean back a bit more for "heel digs"? Will one have to push ones toes down further or lean more forward for "toe carves" when skating backward? If so, this might require more ankle movement for such maneuvers wasting precious fractions of seconds and reducing mechanical efficiency. But on the other hand, maybe you won't have to worry about heel digs and toe carves to perform the same maneuvers with Marsblades. I can see these helping lower skilled players just like an automatic transmission makes driving "easier" for everyone. It might be more like a crutch for those with reduced skating skills and maybe even a hindrance for accomplished skaters. I'm very interested in where this will go. But like I said before, I'd like to see scientific testing on their performance. Clap skates were proven to be beneficial for long track speed skating (but not for short track) using a stopwatch. The Marsblades performance need similar testing. I'm such a Debbie Downer.

I'd like to know what a more scientific test would reveal. I'd like to see them time a player on a lap of the rink and also through an obstacle course of sorts. This would have to be done after a proper warm-up on each type of holder obviously because switching from one type to the other requires a small period of adjustment to re-tune your muscle memory. This may not be very relevant, but I remember one of the skaters in one of the videos comparing his Bauers + Tuuk holders to VH boots + Marsblade holders.

Is it possible that skaters don't realize that they have this issue with the LS Edge that's affecting the quality of their skating even though it's quite apparent to a sharpener like yourself that the blade is not as solidly held as on a LS2 holder after a certain period?

Unless you play in the NHL or are in a situation where you can't afford to miss a shift because of a broken blade or damaged edge, I would avoid the Edge holder. The blades are known to loosen and develop side-to-side play after a while. NHL players change their skates every few months so they change them before the blade has a chance to develop that looseness. When I bought my VH skates, the step holder wasn't available yet. I had a choice between Tuuk Edge and Tuuk LS2. I went with LS2 to avoid that and other known problems. What's the point of having the rigidity of a monocoque skate boot if your blade get's sloppily loose. I might have chosen the Step holder if it had been available, but I would go with LS2 over LS Edge.

Well...that depends on which Tuuk holder you're talking about.

You get a more efficient transfer of energy between your foot and the ice because less energy is wasted flexing the boot. It's the same principle as comparing stiff carbon fiber bicycle frames to the older more flexible steel frames. It's basic physics. And apparently many NHL players have moved to a shallower hollow when they went to VH because the skates provided increased grip.