Therma Blade

[leafs1967 2]

If these do give the person a competitve edge it won't be to long before they are banned for hockey as well. It looks like this company has spent a lot of money coming up with a product that will have a very short shelf life if any at all.

[pantherfan 0]

Even if this does work. When is enough enough when it comes to technology and the sport of ice hockey. Why not preserve some of the skill and effort to make the game more competitive and challenging. Hell we all might as well all get these (if they work) along with some Berry Bonds gel and call it a day. Oh ya, make the goals bigger while your at it.

I remember similar comments about composite sticks when they first started to come out.

[malcb33 97]

I was just about to say the same thing Pantherfan! Who would of thought you would/could spend $300 on an ops, to get had little advantage when shooting? But a lot of people do.

But also if it gives you an advantage an these were leagal in competitive hockey (maybe not so much in lower levels of hockey) a lot of people would start to use them in higher levels of hockey (much like then ops) and then wheres your advantage, when everyone else has them?

[odp 0]

I was just about to say the same thing Pantherfan! Who would of thought you would/could spend $300 on an ops, to get had little advantage when shooting? But a lot of people do.

But also if it gives you an advantage an these were leagal in competitive hockey (maybe not so much in lower levels of hockey) a lot of people would start to use them in higher levels of hockey (much like then ops) and then wheres your advantage, when everyone else has them?

If I can understand your post (sorry, but it's difficult to read), by that logic you're at a disadvantage if you don't have them and everybody else has them.

[helper 0]

I was just thinking about how advanced the Tuuk blade must have seemed when it came out compared to the all metal tube blades.

The Tuuk would have definitely been a competitive advantage. I remember being excited about getting Tuuk blades with my skates.

I was very young but I bet the majority of pro and older players were likely excited about the 'new advancement' in skate blades.

Any one old enough to remember the reaction to Tuuk other than positive...was it controversial at all?

Tuuk literally changed the game

[leafs1967 2]

Yes the TUUk blade wasan advancement in technology as is the ops. These may help the player skate faster or shoot harder but they still rely on ones own physical attributes to help improve ones game. This whole blade system gains it's advantage by an outside mechanical agent. Also as a side note pucks contact and water could be a recippe for danger if a short ever happened while the person as using them

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Exactly right - it was evolution.

I'm with leafs on this one - it's an artificial "advantage."

[A2rhino 62]

That is the perfect term (artificial advantage). The OPS was simply using another material that was lighter more consistant feel and curve angles and could help increase the speed of your shot. But nothing more. You didnt put a battery in it to wind it up and shoot. But maybe thats the new CNT technology for the latest Stelth stick. LOL

[helper 0]

hmmm..good point from the artificial advantage perspective.

I consider myself an early adopter, so new technology appeals to me.

The danger from short circuit can't happen the battery is only something like 8 amps or less and it is sealed. I'm sure the have to have a CSA approval anyway

Still...I gotta give it a go. I'm just an old fat guy I need all the help I can get.

[helper 0]

So Tuesday was the day. I picked up the Thermablade prototypes and played some shinny at lunch and did a regular game last night.

At shinny I warmed up with them off and then turned them on, instantly got smoother and easier.

Even turned off the blade and holder design is very good. Better than my Cobras for sure

Last night I warmed up and tried one on and one off. The cold one felt like sandpaper compared to the warm blade. A two foot glide pulled me in the direction of the cold blade.

Hard to explain the sensation but I really liked them. In my shinny game the ice was crap and with TB the ice definitely felt smoother and didn't effect my skating. The biggest performance difference was cornering, definitely nicer.

In my regular game last night the ice was great and there are definitely some benefits that I could notice, turns were tighter cleaner, felt smoother kinda like right after a flood, can't say I felt faster, I don't think I was.

Definitely I was quicker off the line.

Skate again Friday. At this point I would spend the money. I think lots of guys will want them. The other guys I know that were testing want to keep them.

Have to get used to charging them...they still turned on after my hour of shinny but I didn't trust that I would get a second hour from them.

It will be interesting to see the final version in October when they hit the shelf

[trox_355 0]

Looks like Engadget picked up on it...

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/02/therma-...s-landing-soon/

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

to put it simply, the science behind this is real.

However, therma blade fails to establish the amount of change of the coefficient of friction when increasing the wet layer by the order of 10^1 nm they claim to be achieving. It's a kin to saying that a 730g skate will make you faster than a 740g skate.

Until they provide data on the decrease of the coefficient of friction in relation to the thickness of the wet layer, the scientific crap they're spewing is all smoke and mirrors.

So in short, it's my opinion that therma blade is full of shit.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Matt - is this something that can be measured?

Obviously this matters because it would separate theory from fact. They would be more credible if they had those results, but as he said, it'd be smoke and mirrors if they can't/won't.

That being said, I'm being sent a pair next week. My rep wants me to skate on them.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

How much heavier is the chasis than a "standard" chasis such as the EPro or LightSpeed?

Also, is the cost still somewhere north of $300? How much will replacement blades and batteries cost? How long will each last?

I suspect that there will be a flood of people willing to shell out the money but the performance aspect won't be what everyone expects and that it will not be the bang-for-your-buck product of the year.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

JR, I did some searching through some journal databases, looking for the figures. I hadnt found anything. Theory would suffice, as long as they mathematically backed it, as compared to data collected via experiment.

I doubt we could do anything to measure the effect, there'd be too much error... could someone who works with the wet layer of ice measure it? It's quite possible, but the absence of data leads me to suspect it's either too difficult to pull off, or it's established that it's not worth the scientific effort to get the figures needed.

I'll keep looking around, but if i had to overshoot the impact and exaggerate, you might be looking at one or two pounds less resistance on a 220 lb person. In all likely hood it's far less than that.

[chk hrd 164]

Until they can do an impartial, double blind study using qualified people I will be very skeptical. Although you feel that one blade is performing different than the other there is no way to measure your feelings for accuracy. Some "feeling" can be just that - a physcological feeling (like a placebo effect). I am always skeptical of claims until they are backed up scientifically, using actual engineers or doctors that specialize in that field, doing controled tests. I have seen to many infommercials blow smoke up peoples ass using a doctor who is actually a dentist (or some other doctor and getting paid alot of money) discussing something they do not specialize in. It's like asking a plumber to discuss audio/visual equipment. He might have a little idea but that is it.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

What I am hearing is that Bettman likes the idea and will be pushing to get it standardized for NHL use. So, yeah...

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

hmm, maybe the NHL does need a physicist after all!

and please be talking out of your ass... please.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

I'm not.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

time to brush up my resume.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

ok, so i finally got my hands on a copy of the paper i was looking for.

It gets into some stuff that is outside my field, but I think I have a pretty solid understanding of what the paper discusses and demonstrates. It appears as though the theory of the reduction on friction is indeed correct, but the reduction in resistance due to the player's weight is somewhere around a half of a percent... so, 1 lb on a 220 lb player. I think thats a generous estimate, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since the theory checks out. that said, i would like to see some hard numbers... If someone wanted to give me a pair of them and wanted to pay me I could probably build the appropriate apparatus as outlined in the paper. It'd be pretty easy to derivate a relative comparison.

from a practicality standpoint... i still stand pat that it wont do a damn thing.

[jimmy 194]

http://www.exploratorium.com/hockey/ice2.html

[DarkStar50 679]

Regarding the NHL issue, they brought the product to the head ice guru for the NHL (I forget his name) to get his A-OK. He was doubtful at first but did accept the product for NHL play.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

Accepting the product for NHL use is far different than endorsing the product or signing off on it's significance.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Regarding the NHL issue, they brought the product to the head ice guru for the NHL (I forget his name) to get his A-OK. He was doubtful at first but did accept the product for NHL play.

Dan Craig