pick up hockey (shinny) pet peeves

[mrusse01 0]

Hey pal, I have TWO jobs, a wife, and an 18 month old baby to care for when my wife needs time away with people that she can actually have a conversation with.

I think the general ask here is that guys that maybe lack skill in some areas could at the very least learn where to go on the ice when they don't have the puck, and as far as the guy above who posted some ideas for off ice training etc, he prefaced the whole thing by saying you don't need tons of time and money to do it.

Who needs to come on?

Things are worth doing in life if you aren't, at the very least, going to attempt to do them well.

Just my humble $0.02

I've got to agree with you there.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

Sure, we all love the game...so why not try to draw more from it.

When watching the game, try to look deeper. Maybe set up a note pad with you (A PVR/TiVO makes this easier ;) )

Try and write down notes on the players you identify with most/like most and model your game after them.

My Dad had me do this when I was a youngster and I loved it.

Back in the day I loved to watch Mike Peca. He was great in his own zone, great in the Faceoff circle, was absolutely crushing with his open ice body checks, and chipped in offensively.

Once I was asked to be more offensive and started playing on the wing I was watching guys like Bertuzzi (pre steve moore incident/floating syndrome) and Tkachuck etc...

also, watch how pro teams break out, and how they forecheck. Little things guys do with their linemates coming out of their own zone, what actually happens during a cycle in the offensive zone, how defensemen isolate their check and tie him up effectively.

We are all fans of the game, but seriously, just watching the game with an eye to look deeper can be so much more enlightening.

[chippa13 1844]

You're the guy who gets pissed when someone misses one of your passes at pickup, aren't you.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

True enough with the last point you made!!!!

I am amazed at how many guys that play beer league and pick up that watch the NHL religiously, yet have no clue on fundamental systems play such as a basic breakout, or where to position yourself in either the offensive or defensive zones, about criss-crossing in the offensive zone on a fast break or odd-man rush, about how to forecheck, etc etc etc.

I recently saw an ad on the bulletin board of one of the Local rec leagues where a team of 16 guys ranging in age from 24-40 were looking for a "bench boss or player/coach" as they need "structure" in the way they play. :lol:

There's a difference between seeing guys in the NHL doing it, and even understanding why they're doing it, and actually applying it to your beer league team. I've noticed guys that played as kids and quit to take it up again as adults have a much better sense of the game in terms of positioning, understanding where is (and isn't) a good place to pass, making a play as opposed to batting the puck around, and so on. Then I've noticed most of the guys that took up hockey as adults may be a great deal of knowledge when it comes to taking about the NHL and various offensive and defensive systems of play, yet when they lace the skates up go out on the ice and do nothing but chase the puck and throw it down the ice.

I tend to look at like this: hockey is expensive and it's time consuming. Even if you bought all your gear used you'd still be spending a significant amount of money on ice time, whether it's playing leagues or shinny. I fundamentally don't understand guys that spend all that money and don't seem to want to put any effort into it beyond showing up, chasing the puck for an hour, and then going for beers. Might be another topic, but I've also noticed it's usually the guy with the fancy gear that is the least like to put any effort into it. I'm not saying it has to consume your whole life, but why go through such expenses in terms of time and money if you only want a casual hobby?

[chippa13 1844]

Because for some guys it is more about having a night out with the guys, getting a good sweat, and not rotting on the couch. Let's not forget, boys, different people have different abilities. A guy may look like he's lost but he could be trying to go where he needs to, he just lacks the talent.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

You're the guy who gets pissed when someone misses one of your passes at pickup, aren't you.

Not at all my man.

I played top rung of hockey all my life up in till my teenage years. I quit playing for a period of time because I had a rough go of transitioning from Junior and AAA minor hockey to adult hockey in various leagues and skill levels due to my immaturity dealing with specifically referees and understanding that everyone ahd to go to work the next day.

a few years, a marriage, and a kid later I am mellowed and truly enjoying hockey again.

I only get annoyed at the guys that do ridiculous things like make grandiose claims of previous stardom in their lives and guys that think that Hockey means they get to run around and try to hurt others with physical play or fights. I hate the guys that wind up and take slapshots into crowds neck high (I have a nice scar from 14 stitches in my mouth thanks to just an idiot) and guys that pack their sticks around like lacrosse sticks.

All I am trying to say is that everyone starts somewhere, whether it be minor hockey as a small child or as an adult. What I am trying to say is if you are going to do it, the least you could do is try and do it well. If you don't have the skills, try and use your brain, if you don't have the brain, use your skills, or improve them.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

Because for some guys it is more about having a night out with the guys, getting a good sweat, and not rotting on the couch. Let's not forget, boys, different people have different abilities. A guy may look like he's lost but he could be trying to go where he needs to, he just lacks the talent.

Okay, but you could get that from softball, soccer, or quite a few other things and not spend thousands of dollars on gear and ice time every year. Think about about it, even if you bought no gear (and that's unrealistic because you're going to break sticks, need tape, and so on) you'd be looking at:

500-600+ USD for a winter season, another 250-400USD for summer if you go year around

10-15USD per drop in hockey session. At $10 per session saying you play only once a week 50 out of 52 weeks a year that's another $500

Gas and wear on the car traveling to and from the rinks

When you factor in the reasonable gear you'd have to buy: a stick or two, tape, sports drinks, and replacement equpiment for stuff that wears out over the course of a season you'd be looking at spending 2,000+ USD on hockey. To me that seems excessive for a casual hobby that really just boils down to wanting a night out with the guys. You could accomplish that by having a weekly basketball game down the rec center and pay $50 a year to belong, or play in a men's league and pay 80 or 90 bucks for a whole season. Worst case you'd need a pair of court shoes and a jersey.

Really couldn't disagree more with the last line. Someone that knows where to be will be in the right place, he might not have the talent to make some great play, but he'll be where he's supposed to be.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Because for some guys it is more about having a night out with the guys, getting a good sweat, and not rotting on the couch. Let's not forget, boys, different people have different abilities. A guy may look like he's lost but he could be trying to go where he needs to, he just lacks the talent.

Okay, but you could get that from softball, soccer, or quite a few other things and not spend thousands of dollars on gear and ice time every year. Think about about it, even if you bought no gear (and that's unrealistic because you're going to break sticks, need tape, and so on) you'd be looking at:

500-600+ USD for a winter season, another 250-400USD for summer if you go year around

10-15USD per drop in hockey session. At $10 per session saying you play only once a week 50 out of 52 weeks a year that's another $500

Gas and wear on the car traveling to and from the rinks

When you factor in the reasonable gear you'd have to buy: a stick or two, tape, sports drinks, and replacement equpiment for stuff that wears out over the course of a season you'd be looking at spending 2,000+ USD on hockey. To me that seems excessive for a casual hobby that really just boils down to wanting a night out with the guys. You could accomplish that by having a weekly basketball game down the rec center and pay $50 a year to belong, or play in a men's league and pay 80 or 90 bucks for a whole season. Worst case you'd need a pair of court shoes and a jersey.

Really couldn't disagree more with the last line. Someone that knows where to be will be in the right place, he might not have the talent to make some great play, but he'll be where he's supposed to be.

So, because hockey is expensive, you should only play if you are good?? I'm not a great hockey player...but I love playing. I am an even worse baseball player, but (for the exercise more than anything) I plan on hitting the field again this summer.

I've been on the ice at Open in the past few years with OHL'er, drafted players, NCAA guys on full ride scholarships...could I keep up...NO. Did they ask me to leave...NO. Did I play my $10 and have just as much right to be there as them...YES!

We're not talking about leagues...they have divisions and rankings for a reason...but, We're talking about pickup here...c'mon!

[JoeyJ0506 192]

There are guys that just love hockey and want to be a part of the environment that goes with it. I know plenty of guys that are terrible, but they love the game, and love the brotherhood that goes along with being a part of the team. Granted some of us get a little perturbed when they aren't capable of basic things, but in the end it is all about having fun. Man, that's all pickup is about, getting out one or two nights a week and having a good time doing something you love. As long as the guy isn't super-shifting or picking fights I don't see a problem. And so what if the guy wants to go out and drop the coin to pay for equipment and ice time, that's his business not yours. Like I said, it all boils down to love, maybe he doesn't love softball or basketball. Pickup is about love and having a good time, and as long as he pays his $10 dollars like everyone else he's entitled to enjoy pickup too, regardless of skill level.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

You are all right. You are all saying different things to each other though.

Nobody ever said you have to be good to play, don't put words in my mouth. I simply said if you aren't improving you aren't trying. Do it well or try to...or don't do it at all.

[Rustpot 1]

You are all right. You are all saying different things to each other though.

Nobody ever said you have to be good to play, don't put words in my mouth. I simply said if you aren't improving you aren't trying. Do it well or try to...or don't do it at all.

You're certainly not trying very hard to understand our point.

You don't know where they started off, how long they've been playing, what financial situation they're in, or anything else. I detest basketball, I love hockey. Why the hell should I go play basketball if I want to spend money on hockey? Sure, maybe I flub passes, can't play D to save my life and don't have the presence of mind to play exactly where I need to be, but you know what? I love playing. I try my damndest, skate until I can't breathe, play as hard as I can every moment I'm on the ice, and have a ton of fun with great freinds. I'm so very sorry that in your eyes I'm not trying to better myself when I don't do other physical activity to make myself better at pickup and men's league hockey. You're right, I've been playing the same game for two years now with bad positioning and everything, I should quit if my game doesn't start going up soon.

[mack 44]

You are all right. You are all saying different things to each other though.

Nobody ever said you have to be good to play, don't put words in my mouth. I simply said if you aren't improving you aren't trying. Do it well or try to...or don't do it at all.

Yoda's my hero too, Yoda.

[BuffaloKing 0]

You are all right. You are all saying different things to each other though.

Nobody ever said you have to be good to play, don't put words in my mouth. I simply said if you aren't improving you aren't trying. Do it well or try to...or don't do it at all.

Yoda's my hero too, Yoda.

Easily my favorite thing you have said or ever will say on this message board.

[guasto74 0]

I figured the conversation would go this way. But I think it's a healthy discussion. Look, pick-up is what it is. I'm not going to begrudge the guy that loves the game and just does the best he can because he knows his limitations both ability and timewise.

I still maintain though that even with a wife, kids, mortgage, etc., one can improve with even putting in 1/2 hour a week doing some of the things I listed.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

I don't understand the thought that you go out just to skate around like a headless chicken.

Do you not want to improve!? That is the ONLY suggestion I have made, is that you could apply some simple things you see while watching the televised games and perhaps work in some of quasto's recommendations.

I never said you shouldn't play, I just don't understand not trying to be or get better, that is what shinny is for- low pressure, good natured ice times where you can work on things in your game in a team setting with no consequences.

[Law Goalie 147]

Uh, actually, shinny is for screwing around and having fun while actually getting worse. I have never once in my life heard of anyone playing shinny and getting better in game situations - with the possible exception of someone who had literally never been on the ice before, and even then, it's debatable which icetime would have been more helpful. Shinny is maybe the surest way to erode good timing and positioning, short of a massive car accident or drinking to excess before hitting the ice.

For the record, no, I have no problem with pre-game drinking or even on-bench drinking (a little Bowmore in a flask takes the chill off, especially outdoors), but unless your name is Schultz or Probert, I wouldn't advise it before a game.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

Uh, that is the mentality that frustrates a lot of people with Drop-In, Pickup, and shinny.

Of course Shinny is for screwing around, having fun, just getting extra ice...

I wouldn't want to come to your shinny though, it sounds like the type of shinny where no passes are made, guys get goofy, and it is overall no fun for most.

Shinny and Drop in is for getting on the ice and having fun...for sure. I am not talking about pond hockey and back yard rink hockey here.

If you are paying any sort of cash to go and play pick up don't you want to try and improve on things? try and score goals and set up nice plays? Make excellent defensive plays when nobody is expecting it?

i can't see myself paying any more than $5.00 to go out for a session if it is going to be a gong show, I have better things to do with my time thanks.

There is nothing wrong with a few Pops pre or during either, not in my opinion anyways. There would be a problem if I was barfed on in the corner though ;)

[RadioGaGa 162]

Uh, actually, shinny is for screwing around and having fun while actually getting worse. I have never once in my life heard of anyone playing shinny and getting better in game situations - with the possible exception of someone who had literally never been on the ice before, and even then, it's debatable which icetime would have been more helpful. Shinny is maybe the surest way to erode good timing and positioning, short of a massive car accident or drinking to excess before hitting the ice.

For the record, no, I have no problem with pre-game drinking or even on-bench drinking (a little Bowmore in a flask takes the chill off, especially outdoors), but unless your name is Schultz or Probert, I wouldn't advise it before a game.

This whoel conversation also adds to the confustion of what, in fact, "shinny" is.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

So, because hockey is expensive, you should only play if you are good?? I'm not a great hockey player...but I love playing. I am an even worse baseball player, but (for the exercise more than anything) I plan on hitting the field again this summer.

I've been on the ice at Open in the past few years with OHL'er, drafted players, NCAA guys on full ride scholarships...could I keep up...NO. Did they ask me to leave...NO. Did I play my $10 and have just as much right to be there as them...YES!

We're not talking about leagues...they have divisions and rankings for a reason...but, We're talking about pickup here...c'mon!

Not at all, I'm merely saying that even if you only play shinny once a week hockey is very expensive. I just don't understand why you'd incur that expense for something that was only a casual hobby you put very little effort into. I'd personally much rather play with guys that suck and try than guys that might be talented but refuse to put any effort into the game.

[chippa13 1844]

Who said the guys aren't trying? They are probably trying their asses off at pickup. However, they have other things to do those other nights a week than disecting video of NHL games and shooting 500 pucks in the basement.

It is no different that golf. I play fairly often but I don't spend every free moment at the range agonizing over my swing or reading every article possible on how to improve. I try when I play but I also enjoy the game and the time with friends. Should I now quit golf because I don't fit what you think someone should do with their casual hobby?

[Law Goalie 147]

Uh, that is the mentality that frustrates a lot of people with Drop-In, Pickup, and shinny.

Of course Shinny is for screwing around, having fun, just getting extra ice...

I wouldn't want to come to your shinny though, it sounds like the type of shinny where no passes are made, guys get goofy, and it is overall no fun for most.

Shinny and Drop in is for getting on the ice and having fun...for sure. I am not talking about pond hockey and back yard rink hockey here.

If you are paying any sort of cash to go and play pick up don't you want to try and improve on things? try and score goals and set up nice plays? Make excellent defensive plays when nobody is expecting it?

i can't see myself paying any more than $5.00 to go out for a session if it is going to be a gong show, I have better things to do with my time thanks.

There is nothing wrong with a few Pops pre or during either, not in my opinion anyways. There would be a problem if I was barfed on in the corner though ;)

Great assumption, there, jackass. Your idea of a veiled insult is about as subtle as Pat Quinn in a g-string.

As a matter of fact, my main shinny game is especially prone to OVER-passing. It's a group of guys who have been playing together so for so long that they're practically telepathic, and they much prefer the rhythm of complete plays and mobile possession to shot-rebound-recycle. That, more than anything else is what screws me up personally: my depth-selection goes to hell during shinny because of the passing options, which, in a real game, would almost always be taken as a quick shot. Good for the legs, though, and contrary to your risible assumptions, very, very entertaining.

You managed to completely miss the point. Even the best shinny simply does not play like a real game: the pace is different, the space is different, the scoring chances are completely off the map. Shinny is like the Average Joe's All-Star Game - sure, it's fun, and it's a nice change of pace, but anyone who mistakes it for real hockey doesn't know how the game is played. The skill level can go as high or as low on average, or be spread as narrowly or widely as you like, but the written and unwritten rules of shinny make it as different a game as 5v5 and 4v4.

[mrusse01 0]

Uh, actually, shinny is for screwing around and having fun while actually getting worse. I have never once in my life heard of anyone playing shinny and getting better in game situations - with the possible exception of someone who had literally never been on the ice before, and even then, it's debatable which icetime would have been more helpful. Shinny is maybe the surest way to erode good timing and positioning, short of a massive car accident or drinking to excess before hitting the ice.

For the record, no, I have no problem with pre-game drinking or even on-bench drinking (a little Bowmore in a flask takes the chill off, especially outdoors), but unless your name is Schultz or Probert, I wouldn't advise it before a game.

This whoel conversation also adds to the confustion of what, in fact, "shinny" is.

This is how I see it....

----------

Pond Hockey - Outdoors, usually played with no goalies, no equipment other than gloves.

Shinny - On a real rink, almost always have to pay rink attendant a certain amount, anybody can show up. Full (or close to full) equipment. Warm up for a while, then teams are generally split by jersey colour. Intensity and quality of game vary tremendously, even at the same location, from day-to-day. I've played shinny at university where if you aren't an ex-junior player you're the worst guy on the ice. I've played shinny where an ex-junior player would score 100 goals if he wanted.

Pick-up - Organized by a guy who rents the ice, players pay him as opposed to the arena directly. Usually a set group of guys with the occasional new guy to fill out spots when necessary. No refs obviously, but score is almost always kept in some fashion.

Organized League - Doesn't really need explanation...refs, scheduling, multiple teams, etc.

-------------

There seems to be something, most often I notice from Americans, that slots in above 'pond hockey' but seemingly below 'shinny'...stick and puck do you call it? I'm not really aware of anything like that in Southern Ontario other than just maybe the occasional shinny game where not enough guys show up to organize teams.

[starsfan71 9]

I typically go to open hockey which is basically pick up for 1990s & under and I go there to have fun but to get better as well, I don't really know how laid back shinny is compared to Open Hockey locally but I see nothing wrong with trying to get better.

Back to pet peeves not trying to sound like a 16 year old brat but I don't like it when adults come into the 1990 & under sessions when they have a time slot specifically for 18+ skaters, I mean I know not everyone 18+ can make it to that time slot but players under 18 don't go to the 18+ session.

[Larry54 243]

I'm merely saying that even if you only play shinny once a week hockey is very expensive. I just don't understand why you'd incur that expense for something that was only a casual hobby you put very little effort into. I'd personally much rather play with guys that suck and try than guys that might be talented but refuse to put any effort into the game.

What you consider as "expensive" might not be such to someone else. An adult with a decent paying job might not find it expensive. The decision to pay that expense is a personal choice and is pretty much irrelevant.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

RLH was following a train of thought in a previous post where he mentioned that Basketball or other sports are "cheaper" in comparison to Hockey, whether it is organized or not.