2008 US Election Thread

[ponty 0]

The POW experience shows McCain's commitment. He could have folded and sold out his fellow captives and denounced his own country for preferential treatment but he didn't. How many of us would have the will and courage to do the same?

No one is questioning that about McCain. Your nuts if you do. He is one of the greatest American heros that is still alive and that is very well documented.

The issue is around answer the question at hand. Sometimes the answer has nothing to do about commitment and bravery.

That said my biggest issue with McCain is 72 hard driven years with a history of cancer.

[Bane 1]

The POW experience shows McCain's commitment. He could have folded and sold out his fellow captives and denounced his own country for preferential treatment but he didn't. How many of us would have the will and courage to do the same?

It does show commitment, but does not give him a blanket excuse for not knowing about the economy, etc. Being a POW does not make you a good leader, of course neither does being a "Community Organizer," or Governor for 14 months.

[Trooper 8]

Easy. The David Letterman issue when he was asked about his houses and the response was around his war experience.

Seriously. BOTH candidates have their set of issues which always happens. Decide on who you want to vote for based on your value system and what is important to you. Who ever you vote for dont be blind to the pro's and con's of a candidate.

Thank you. Although I couldn't care less how many houses he has, more power to him.

[chippa13 1844]

Being a POW doesn't, but increasing ranks in the Navy perhaps do.

[chk hrd 164]

If Palin has her say forget any type of abortion rights for women, unless they are on thier death bed. If any of your girlfriends or daughters get raped, tough they would get to have the child. Her view is so right wing that even McCain's wife disagrees with them. Hope everyone is a Christian, because she wants to teach Creation and Intellegent design in schools along with evolution. What happened to seperation of church and state....but then I guess we could watch the Flintstones and consider it a documentary. Don't count on any stem cell research that could save a loved one's life, she's against it.

If she is put into office it would be a big step back for women's rights

[Chadd 916]

If Palin has her say forget any type of abortion rights for women, unless they are on thier death bed. If any of your girlfriends or daughters get raped, tough they would get to have the child. Her view is so right wing that even McCain's wife disagrees with them. Hope everyone is a Christian, because she wants to teach Creation and Intellegent design in schools along with evolution. What happened to seperation of church and state....but then I guess we could watch the Flintstones and consider it a documentary. Don't count on any stem cell research that could save a loved one's life, she's against it.

If she is put into office it would be a big step back for women's rights

Her positions aren't important unless McCain dies. That said, I agree with you on the potential ramifications. Why can't we have a party with that wants to keep taxes lower and maintain the first amendment? Why can't you be a member of the NRA and the ACLU at the same time? You would think that defending the first amendment wouldn't be that different from defending the second.

[lawryde 0]

Her positions aren't important unless McCain dies.

21% of all US Vice Presidents have had to take over due to Presidential death.

Those are pretty good odds, and even better considering 72 year old, who has had cancer, McCain would be the oldest president to be sworn into a first term.

Her positions are important.

[Chadd 916]

Saw this link on Fark and damn near pissed myself.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jh...lin-gender-card

[Trooper 8]

Her positions aren't important unless McCain dies. That said, I agree with you on the potential ramifications. Why can't we have a party with that wants to keep taxes lower and maintain the first amendment? Why can't you be a member of the NRA and the ACLU at the same time? You would think that defending the first amendment wouldn't be that different from defending the second.

To some extent. Her positions are important for the election as they brought the conservatives who were wary of McCain around.

Why can't you be part of the NRA and ACLU? Because the ACLU refuses to recognize the 2nd Amendment as an individual right, despite Heller.

If Palin has her say forget any type of abortion rights for women, unless they are on thier death bed. If any of your girlfriends or daughters get raped, tough they would get to have the child. Her view is so right wing that even McCain's wife disagrees with them. Hope everyone is a Christian, because she wants to teach Creation and Intellegent design in schools along with evolution. What happened to seperation of church and state....but then I guess we could watch the Flintstones and consider it a documentary. Don't count on any stem cell research that could save a loved one's life, she's against it.

If she is put into office it would be a big step back for women's rights

Why? Is she going to become a dictator? Just because she believes in creationism doesn't mean it will be taught in school.

I guess we'll have to weigh womens' rights against an unborn baby's rights if the scenario you describe ever comes about.

[epstud74 24]

Hahaha I have some stories about Janet Reno...back when I was 17 our outdoor rh rink was by her house in Miami. LOL

I'm sure she was a good player, but remember she puts on her jockstrap just like the rest of us

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

Hahaha I have some stories about Janet Reno...back when I was 17 our outdoor rh rink was by her house in Miami. LOL

I'm sure she was a good player, but remember she puts on her jockstrap just like the rest of us

No, she didn't play hockey, it was what she used to do around the neighborhood after drinking heavily.

[chippa13 1844]

Funny to see someone posit that a woman becoming president would set women's rights back.

[epstud74 24]

MCCain/Palin 2008

Palin 2016

That's a bit of a stretch. No way McCain is alive in 8 yrs.

Was it just me or did the camera at the RNC always focus on the 7 black people in the crowd?

Either that or you could have been imagining it..Who knows? I'm just trying to figure out why race has become such an issue in this day and age. The Republicans certainly have been made aware of the perception that they're a party of "WASPS" even though it probably is an unfair assumption. Lumping all conservatives into one bracket is a bit unfair as well. A conservative from the upper midwest usually is a very different person than a conservative from Mississippi..The same probably goes for the Dem side of the fence as well. Many Reagan or Clinton Democrats have nothing in common with the lunatic left fringe of the party, yet they all get painted with the dreaded "liberal" label.

[cxo 0]

Do we really want a president who's excuse for everything is "I was a POW damn it!" Even Palin played McCain's POW card in her speech. Being held captive in a POW camp and beaten does not qualify you for the presidency.

I love the remark about how Obama hasn't run anything. The ironic part is neither has McCain, not even a military command. The guy was shot down on his first mission.

I would love to have a viable third party candidate. American's need to realize that real change is a third party.

You're preaching to the choir buddy. This two party nightmare really needs to end. Both parties are way, way extreme. The right side is beholden to the extreme religious zealots and the left is controlled by a bunch of pc pansies. Can we not start a common sense/no corruption party?

Its funny you say that because the two parties are actually really similar. Of course there are things they will never agree on (size of government, abortion, taxes), but in the bigger picture they're both moderate parties. The fact that they're so similar in most major things only leads to the stability of the two party system. If the right is controlled by religious zealots, like Chadd said why is McCain the nominee? Obama fits the stereotype for a Democrat this year, but I'm sure a little research would show instances where there have been unDemocratic leaders in the party.

Exactly. Finally someone who agrees with me. Has anyone ever really stopped and noticed any real changing between different parties taking power in the white house? If Obama takes office next year, there's not going to be much actual changing happening other than your taxes being raised. It'll be business as usual regardless of who's living in D.C.

[chippa13 1844]

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

[epstud74 24]

Hahaha I have some stories about Janet Reno...back when I was 17 our outdoor rh rink was by her house in Miami. LOL

I'm sure she was a good player, but remember she puts on her jockstrap just like the rest of us

No, she didn't play hockey, it was what she used to do around the neighborhood after drinking heavily.

I know that, I was commenting on her perceived butch lifestyle.. She was a drunkard? Niiice pick for attorney general haha

[troy 12]

Saw this link on Fark and damn near pissed myself.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jh...lin-gender-card

If you liked the gender card then you should check out the race genie.

[epstud74 24]

As a financial professional, it will be interesting to see what changes tax-wise will happen if Obama is elected..Especially issues such as the estate tax etc.. Taxes are a good way to raise funds for the government, but the Dem tax/fiscal/trade policy has been hard on small businesses and farms. Which is why you wont see a lot of support amongst the rural populace of the midwest and west. It isnt because of ideological issues such as abortion and so on, but a lot of it has been economic. Carter's policies in the late 70s are a prime example..It is no small wonder that Mondale failed miserably in 1984 against Reagan with the same issues. Once he uttered that he'd start another grain embargo against the USSR and Eastern Europe, rural america voted against him.

Back to the Obama campaign..I realize taxes are a necessary evil, but I strongly feel that the Dems have a skewed view of what the "middle class" really is and if the estate tax put at the $1.5 million or so benchmark, it could hurt a lot of people. It needs to stay at $3 million or above, otherwise you're basically keeping families from being upwardly mobile. Also, if your grandparents/parents worked extremely hard all their lives to build up a sizeable nest egg to provide opportunities for the next generation..Why give the government so much of it? It would be a bitter pill to swallow even though it is an inheritance or "free money" as some people like to call it. A lot of the children of these people have worked on these family farms or small business all their lives, so I dont think it really is a "free lunch" as some people would like to call it.

[ponty 0]

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

I will be SHOCKED if McCain goes a term without raising taxes. With the mess we are in as a country I find that claim hard to believe.

"read my lips ... " Ah never mind ;)

[epstud74 24]

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

I will be SHOCKED if McCain goes a term without raising taxes. With the mess we are in as a country I find that claim hard to believe.

"read my lips ... " Ah never mind ;)

I agree, but if you have to raise taxes...cut the pork in a lot of areas.. Some programs are going to have to be cut. If we're out of Iraq in a few years, perhaps cutting defense spending would help..Raising income/estate taxes arent exactly a good idea, but if we can can curb inflation and spend less on fuel, a tax increase wouldnt be so bad..

So, what, it's okay that McCain has skipped out on the job even more the past two years because of his track record?

It's the nature of the beast for campaigning, so I'm more concerned about their platforms -- as everyone should be.

Not to mention voting with Bush 90% of the time. The latest issue of the Economist put it best, right on the cover... "Bring Back the Real McCain"

When McCain ran the last time against Bush, I had respect for him. McCain is no longer a Maverick like he claims. He is now a GW Bush clone. Who admits he doesn't know enough about economics. I personally don't think a guy who can't remember how many houses he owns is in touch with my middle class needs.

Tout inexperience all you want, but JFK was only a one term senator when he ran too and he is generally regarded as one of our greatest presidents.

How is that possible, Bush does not have a vote in the house or the senate unless I'm mistaken....

He does have the power of veto

[chippa13 1844]

As a financial professional, it will be interesting to see what changes tax-wise will happen if Obama is elected..Especially issues such as the estate tax etc.. Taxes are a good way to raise funds for the government, but the Dem tax/fiscal/trade policy has been hard on small businesses and farms. Which is why you wont see a lot of support amongst the rural populace of the midwest and west. It isnt because of ideological issues such as abortion and so on, but a lot of it has been economic. Carter's policies in the late 70s are a prime example..It is no small wonder that Mondale failed miserably in 1984 against Reagan with the same issues. Once he uttered that he'd start another grain embargo against the USSR and Eastern Europe, rural america voted against him.

Back to the Obama campaign..I realize taxes are a necessary evil, but I strongly feel that the Dems have a skewed view of what the "middle class" really is and if the estate tax put at the $1.5 million or so benchmark, it could hurt a lot of people. It needs to stay at $3 million or above, otherwise you're basically keeping families from being upwardly mobile. Also, if your grandparents/parents worked extremely hard all their lives to build up a sizeable nest egg to provide opportunities for the next generation..Why give the government so much of it? It would be a bitter pill to swallow even though it is an inheritance or "free money" as some people like to call it. A lot of the children of these people have worked on these family farms or small business all their lives, so I dont think it really is a "free lunch" as some people would like to call it.

The real crime of the estate tax is what it does to small businesses. A parent works hard to create a family business and because they don't plan ahead far enough to put the business in the kid's names (currently I believe the rule goes 3 years back) then more often than not a family winds up selling off the business or much of its assets in order to pay the taxes on the worth of said business.

[epstud74 24]

Do we really want a president who's excuse for everything is "I was a POW damn it!" Even Palin played McCain's POW card in her speech. Being held captive in a POW camp and beaten does not qualify you for the presidency.

I love the remark about how Obama hasn't run anything. The ironic part is neither has McCain, not even a military command. The guy was shot down on his first mission.

I would love to have a viable third party candidate. American's need to realize that real change is a third party.

If you are going to post, at least back up your assertions with evidence. McCain's POW experience is not an excuse, it's an example of someone who suffered through a hardship most people couldn't even imagine.

You aren't even close on your "facts" about what McCain has run or when he was shot down. A simple Google search would have done wonders. Thanks for playing.

Her daughter does not even equate to the average underage, pregnant girl in America. I would keep the kid too, if I had the chance to be a VP's kid who can have any nanny and all the help I need. If her and her boyfriend get into financial trouble you can bet they will get bailed out by mommy, unlike the average American girl. There's a high probability that if mom wasn't powerful the daughter's decision would be different.

Your assertion is pure speculation. Having a baby pretty much ends her childhood and it is a very serious decision no matter what economic bracket you are in.

You state the being a POW is not an excuse, yet McCain uses it as one. He deflects every issue he can with some story about Hanoi. You should take your own suggestion and Google it.

On his military record, I'll let you make the decision. I should has said his first real mission. He was a training officer most of his career. Again take your own advice, google it. Read his own story in US News.

On the issue of the baby, I said high probability. That does not guarantee the decision would have been different, but there is certainly a chance it would be different.

To quote you "Thanks for playing"

You really believe this? I doubt McCain willingly goes overboard with his status as a POW. I believe he may have to use it as a political necessity which probably makes his stomach churn a little. I doubt many real veterans that are all gung ho and loud about their "heroism" in combat when they know thousands of others like them made the same sacrifices and many didnt come back at all. It was obvious that John Kerry was uncomfortable using his service record to tout his abilities as a potential POTUS/CIC. He had to out of political necessity and he was crucified for it which is a disgusting story unto its own. McCain served his country and spent 5 years as a POW in some of the most horrid physical and emotional conditions a human being could endure. It is utterly ridiculous to even make an argument against his military record..Training mission or not..1st or 23rd mission..Ludicrous..Your argument has no merit in my opinion

As a financial professional, it will be interesting to see what changes tax-wise will happen if Obama is elected..Especially issues such as the estate tax etc.. Taxes are a good way to raise funds for the government, but the Dem tax/fiscal/trade policy has been hard on small businesses and farms. Which is why you wont see a lot of support amongst the rural populace of the midwest and west. It isnt because of ideological issues such as abortion and so on, but a lot of it has been economic. Carter's policies in the late 70s are a prime example..It is no small wonder that Mondale failed miserably in 1984 against Reagan with the same issues. Once he uttered that he'd start another grain embargo against the USSR and Eastern Europe, rural america voted against him.

Back to the Obama campaign..I realize taxes are a necessary evil, but I strongly feel that the Dems have a skewed view of what the "middle class" really is and if the estate tax put at the $1.5 million or so benchmark, it could hurt a lot of people. It needs to stay at $3 million or above, otherwise you're basically keeping families from being upwardly mobile. Also, if your grandparents/parents worked extremely hard all their lives to build up a sizeable nest egg to provide opportunities for the next generation..Why give the government so much of it? It would be a bitter pill to swallow even though it is an inheritance or "free money" as some people like to call it. A lot of the children of these people have worked on these family farms or small business all their lives, so I dont think it really is a "free lunch" as some people would like to call it.

The real crime of the estate tax is what it does to small businesses. A parent works hard to create a family business and because they don't plan ahead far enough to put the business in the kid's names (currently I believe the rule goes 3 years back) then more often than not a family winds up selling off the business or much of its assets in order to pay the taxes on the worth of said business.

This is where the Dem party has lost the American public and previous elections...They should cater to these people, not the Code Pink or Moveon.org type idiots.. Who are the Dems preaching to really?

[Chadd 916]

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

I will be SHOCKED if McCain goes a term without raising taxes. With the mess we are in as a country I find that claim hard to believe.

"read my lips ... " Ah never mind ;)

I could see him trying to move forward without any tax increases, I believe he would be more likely to try and get closer to a balanced budget by cutting spending than by raising taxes. I don't see how Obama can hand out all of the money he has promised without raising taxes significantly and that would still result in higher budget deficits than McCain budgets.

I liked McCain a lot more eight years ago, but I believe his actions lately have simply been to ensure that he was able to get the nomination and shore up support from the fundie part of the party. I see McCain as someone who will make a deal to get some progress on a topic, like they used to do in Washington as opposed to the party warfare of the last dozen or more years. Sometimes you have to give something on one issue to get something on another, we haven't seen that in a long time. I don't see Obama having that type of willingness to deal. I see him as someone like Bush who wants to do things his way and his way only, then slander anyone who stands against his "vision".

[ponty 0]

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

I will be SHOCKED if McCain goes a term without raising taxes. With the mess we are in as a country I find that claim hard to believe.

"read my lips ... " Ah never mind ;)

I could see him trying to move forward without any tax increases, I believe he would be more likely to try and get closer to a balanced budget by cutting spending than by raising taxes. I don't see how Obama can hand out all of the money he has promised without raising taxes significantly and that would still result in higher budget deficits than McCain budgets.

I liked McCain a lot more eight years ago, but I believe his actions lately have simply been to ensure that he was able to get the nomination and shore up support from the fundie part of the party. I see McCain as someone who will make a deal to get some progress on a topic, like they used to do in Washington as opposed to the party warfare of the last dozen or more years. Sometimes you have to give something on one issue to get something on another, we haven't seen that in a long time. I don't see Obama having that type of willingness to deal. I see him as someone like Bush who wants to do things his way and his way only, then slander anyone who stands against his "vision".

I too like McCain a lot more 8 years ago as well and was disappointed in what I have been seeing out of him over the last year. I am not a big fan of Obama not spreading out the tax burden amoung all but thats another story.

Bottom line is that EITHER person will be much better than President cluster-f**k.

[epstud74 24]

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

I will be SHOCKED if McCain goes a term without raising taxes. With the mess we are in as a country I find that claim hard to believe.

"read my lips ... " Ah never mind ;)

I could see him trying to move forward without any tax increases, I believe he would be more likely to try and get closer to a balanced budget by cutting spending than by raising taxes. I don't see how Obama can hand out all of the money he has promised without raising taxes significantly and that would still result in higher budget deficits than McCain budgets.

I liked McCain a lot more eight years ago, but I believe his actions lately have simply been to ensure that he was able to get the nomination and shore up support from the fundie part of the party. I see McCain as someone who will make a deal to get some progress on a topic, like they used to do in Washington as opposed to the party warfare of the last dozen or more years. Sometimes you have to give something on one issue to get something on another, we haven't seen that in a long time. I don't see Obama having that type of willingness to deal. I see him as someone like Bush who wants to do things his way and his way only, then slander anyone who stands against his "vision".

I too like McCain a lot more 8 years ago as well and was disappointed in what I have been seeing out of him over the last year. I am not a big fan of Obama not spreading out the tax burden amoung all but thats another story.

Bottom line is that EITHER person will be much better than President cluster-f**k.

As for Bush, the Dems have done a pretty good job with their media campaign against him...I'll wait a few years before I pass judgement on the GWB presidency. Time and history has a way of bringing out the true story..