2008 US Election Thread

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

*that was a joke.

[mik3 1]

The county breakdowns in some of the southern states were pretty crazy, going back to Jason's point pages ago. The cities were just about all ending up blue, the country areas were just about all red.

On another note, my county was 70-30 for Bush in 04. It was 52-47 for McCain, that's a pretty decent swing.

[DarkStar50 679]

OK, I'm out, I actually have to do some work (so I can fund the poor and downtrodden... ;) )

You just insulted my unemployed ass, you get a 20% warning and you're off for a week.

Have fun!

And we get to see the Fairness Doctrine in action.

When the conservative talk radio guys(King Rush, Lord Hannity, etc.) complain about the liberal media painting such and such picture of Obama, the conservative talk radio guys forget or ignore, they are also media and push their agenda as well. Chippa, not calling you out. Just wanted to reference the post.

[Chadd 916]

OK, I'm out, I actually have to do some work (so I can fund the poor and downtrodden... ;) )

You just insulted my unemployed ass, you get a 20% warning and you're off for a week.

Have fun!

And we get to see the Fairness Doctrine in action.

When the conservative talk radio guys(King Rush, Lord Hannity, etc.) complain about the liberal media painting such and such picture of Obama, the conservative talk radio guys forget or ignore, they are also media and push their agenda as well. Chippa, not calling you out. Just wanted to reference the post.

But the fairness doctrine can't realistically be applied to "news" and the discussions about re-establishing it is directed solely at conservative talk radio. I don't listen to it but trying to legislate it out of existence is heavy handed.

[kosydar 0]

No, what it means is I KNOW the Republicans are generally less educated, while I BELIEVE this is due to the influence of the evangelicals over the past 28 years. It doesn't mean I like Republicans more or less, it doesn't mean I like Democrats more or less. It only means that Republicans are generally less educated than Democrats.

I took a class last year on political parties taught by someone I would consider an objective liberal. During the course of learning about the parties in the electorate and party identification he brought up some interesting information. He showed us that in most cases Republicans aren't less educated than Democrats, but the opposite is actually true. Keep in mind this goes against everything I've learned in 3+ years of getting my political science degree so I found it hard to believe. He showed us survey after survey, study after study that validates this claim. I wish I could reproduce his notes/slides because I know it sounds unfathomable, but take it for what its worth. Do I think that Republicans are better educated than Democrats? I don't, but then again I don't necessarily believe that Dems are more educated than Repubs. You can find studies to show whatever you want, to either reinforce a stereotype or to discredit it. The one common flaw in that whole theory is that people associate education with academia. I would assume the overwhelming majority of college professors and the like are liberal. That doesn't mean that every one of their students changes their ideologies to match their professors'.

[Jason Harris 31]

State IQ estimates

A quick glance shows some regional trends and I'm quite confident we would find income averages align somewhat closely. I'd also bet that someone can find a breakdown showing the lower end states have a higher percentage of evangelical denominations.

That said, it's why I believe in affirmative action as it pertains to education. I don't think it's healthy for our country to have such disparity between its regions.

[kosydar 0]

The county breakdowns in some of the southern states were pretty crazy, going back to Jason's point pages ago. The cities were just about all ending up blue, the country areas were just about all red.

On another note, my county was 70-30 for Bush in 04. It was 52-47 for McCain, that's a pretty decent swing.

http://psychohistory.files.wordpress.com/2...1/bush-2004.jpg

That is from 04. I haven't seen one from 08 yet that shows it by county, but I'd imagine the rural-urban dichotomy won't be as pronounced as it was in 04 because Obama won many more rural areas than Kerry did.

[Trooper 8]

State IQ estimates

A quick glance shows some regional trends and I'm quite confident we would find income averages align somewhat closely. I'd also bet that someone can find a breakdown showing the lower end states have a higher percentage of evangelical denominations.

That said, it's why I believe in affirmative action as it pertains to education. I don't think it's healthy for our country to have such disparity between its regions.

So even my riveting work couldn't keep me away.

Jason, the leap from the IQ scores derived from SATs (taken by teenagers) applied to the states to try and show one way or the other which party is more intelligent would likely get you beaten upside the head by even the most novice statistician...

[kosydar 0]

State IQ estimates

A quick glance shows some regional trends and I'm quite confident we would find income averages align somewhat closely. I'd also bet that someone can find a breakdown showing the lower end states have a higher percentage of evangelical denominations.

That said, it's why I believe in affirmative action as it pertains to education. I don't think it's healthy for our country to have such disparity between its regions.

If this election taught us anything, the Evangelicals don't control everything. That was the big fear of the Dems after 04 (and half the Republicans, too).

What I think is important to remember is that no matter which party is more "educated", the majority of people in the electorate are not smart about politics. To me, an guy without a GED from Mississippi who votes for McCain because he is worried about national security isn't any dumber than a college student from Connecticut who is voting for Obama because its "change we can believe in".

[Trooper 8]

State IQ estimates

A quick glance shows some regional trends and I'm quite confident we would find income averages align somewhat closely. I'd also bet that someone can find a breakdown showing the lower end states have a higher percentage of evangelical denominations.

That said, it's why I believe in affirmative action as it pertains to education. I don't think it's healthy for our country to have such disparity between its regions.

If this election taught us anything, the Evangelicals don't control everything. That was the big fear of the Dems after 04 (and half the Republicans, too).

What I think is important to remember is that no matter which party is more "educated", the majority of people in the electorate are not smart about politics. To me, an guy without a GED from Mississippi who votes for McCain because he is worried about national security isn't any dumber than a college student from Connecticut who is voting for Obama because its "change we can believe in".

Exactly, I know many intelligent voters for both sides who have a pretty simple litmus test on an important issue or two for them and vote that way. It doesn't take too much work to figure out who you support.

[Jason Harris 31]

State IQ estimates

A quick glance shows some regional trends and I'm quite confident we would find income averages align somewhat closely. I'd also bet that someone can find a breakdown showing the lower end states have a higher percentage of evangelical denominations.

That said, it's why I believe in affirmative action as it pertains to education. I don't think it's healthy for our country to have such disparity between its regions.

If this election taught us anything, the Evangelicals don't control everything. That was the big fear of the Dems after 04 (and half the Republicans, too).

What I think is important to remember is that no matter which party is more "educated", the majority of people in the electorate are not smart about politics. To me, an guy without a GED from Mississippi who votes for McCain because he is worried about national security isn't any dumber than a college student from Connecticut who is voting for Obama because its "change we can believe in".

I agree with your second part, but I think the current quagmire inspired enough other voters that they were able to overcome the evangelicals this. In a more peaceful election, I think the evangelicals are the most prepared to "get out the vote." They meet weekly and are structured to give great credence to their leaders.

Trooper, I agree about your litmus test. My big one is abortion. I never want to see it being used as contraception, but as long as a Republican candidate wants to restrict Roe-Wade, I won't give him two seconds thought. If he's willing to leave that alone, I'd certainly compare all other issues.

[chippa13 1844]

*that was a joke.

So was mine.

OK, I'm out, I actually have to do some work (so I can fund the poor and downtrodden... ;) )

You just insulted my unemployed ass, you get a 20% warning and you're off for a week.

Have fun!

And we get to see the Fairness Doctrine in action.

When the conservative talk radio guys(King Rush, Lord Hannity, etc.) complain about the liberal media painting such and such picture of Obama, the conservative talk radio guys forget or ignore, they are also media and push their agenda as well. Chippa, not calling you out. Just wanted to reference the post.

I was just using it as a joke in this instance. However, as Chadd notes, it is being pointedly pushed against conservative radio. That, my friend, is a very dangerous precedent to be setting.

"First, they came for Limbaugh and I said nothing since I did not listen to him....................."

The liberal left tried their hand at talk radio, Air America anyone, and it failed miserably.

[Aussie Joe 0]

In regards to IQ tests, I love this quote from one of the developers of the test, early last centrury...

The scale, properly speaking, does not permit the measure of intelligence, because intellectual qualities are not superposable, and therefore cannot be measured as linear surfaces are measured. - Alfred Binet

But I cannot forget...

There are no facts, only interpretations. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[chippa13 1844]

Philosophers, the great time wasters.

[TheBert 0]

No, what it means is I KNOW the Republicans are generally less educated, while I BELIEVE this is due to the influence of the evangelicals over the past 28 years. It doesn't mean I like Republicans more or less, it doesn't mean I like Democrats more or less. It only means that Republicans are generally less educated than Democrats.

I took a class last year on political parties taught by someone I would consider an objective liberal. During the course of learning about the parties in the electorate and party identification he brought up some interesting information. He showed us that in most cases Republicans aren't less educated than Democrats, but the opposite is actually true....

We had access to education level data that I put through SPSS.

Characteristics we could draw were that large numbers of registered Republican had either: significantly above average incomes and education or levels of education achievement that were well below average -- not deriving any judgements on intelligence at all.

Registered Democrats pretty much fit mostly in between these two groups. Not surprisingly, independent voters came up on average as more intelligent than either groups of registered voters.

[lampliter87 8]

This topic really makes me wonder where some of you guys would end up on this scale.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

2.00 to the right, 0.36 down.

[troy 12]

Chadd, that article you posted a few pages back is entirely reliant on objective and fundamental journalism. I'm sure there will be conservative criticism and an occasional Daily Show barb but I really don't see the MSM doing anything that could shed a negative or questioning light on BO.

[chippa13 1844]

The media definitely has a fine line to tread here. If the media appears too critical then there will be cries of racism, if the media appears too approving then there will be cries of coddling. I am curious what the late night hosts will do.

[Chadd 916]

The media definitely has a fine line to tread here. If the media appears too critical then there will be cries of racism, if the media appears too approving then there will be cries of coddling. I am curious what the late night hosts will do.

He'll get a free ride for a while then they will tear him apart so it doesn't look like they gave him a free ride.

[Jason Harris 31]

I am curious what the late night hosts will do.

I've seen quotes that they don't know what to do, because he doesn't offer the same fodder that other politicians have. He's young, bright, lean and composed.

My guess is they may start to portray him as a robot for laughs,

[RadioGaGa 162]

I am curious what the late night hosts will do.

I've seen quotes that they don't know what to do, because he doesn't offer the same fodder that other politicians have. He's young, bright, lean and composed.

My guess is they may start to portray him as a robot for laughs,

...or they'll just find a way to keep making fun of Dubya. Maybe he'll buy another shitty baseball team or something stupid.

[DarkStar50 679]

I am curious what the late night hosts will do.

I've seen quotes that they don't know what to do, because he doesn't offer the same fodder that other politicians have. He's young, bright, lean and composed.

My guess is they may start to portray him as a robot for laughs,

Yeah, it's really too bad Obama is smart. What a problem for all of us...............

[chippa13 1844]

Late night hosts have hammered every president since there has been late night hosts. I just wonder how long race will prevent them from going after Obama.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Late night hosts have hammered every president since there has been late night hosts. I just wonder how long race will prevent them from going after Obama.

They will still make jokes, they already have.

"You know, do you realize this is our first black president since the first season of '24'?" --Jay Leno

"According to recent news reports, Bill Clinton has now become an adviser to Barack Obama. Bill Clinton is giving advice to Barack Obama. Do you know who is really upset about this? Michelle Obama." --Jay Leno

"Barack Obama was joined on stage by Bruce Springsteen in Ohio on Sunday. There was one tense moment when somebody in the audience yelled out, 'Born in the USA!' And Obama said, 'For the last time, yes, damnit, I was!" --Jimmy Kimmel

"And how about last night, when Barack Obama had his half hour infomercial TV special. I mean, thank God! It's about time this guy got some media coverage, don't you think?" --David Letterman

"But I thought it was one of those heartwarming infomercials. It had a wonderful ending. In the final scene Barack Obama is adopted by Angelina Jolie." --David Letterman

"Hey, I watched 'American Idol' last night, the Barack Obama show. Did you all see Barack Obama’s infomercial? It was called 'American Stories.' You know why they called it 'American Stories'? I guess it sounded better than 'Barack Obama Running Out the Clock.'" --Jay Leno

"Earlier this evening, Barack Obama's 30-minute infomercial appeared on three of the major networks. ... Now, if you didn't see it, one part was a little odd. At the end, Barack said, 'If you vote now, we'll throw in a set of steak knives and a can of Oxiclean.'" --Jay Leno

[Trooper 8]

I am curious what the late night hosts will do.

I've seen quotes that they don't know what to do, because he doesn't offer the same fodder that other politicians have. He's young, bright, lean and composed.

My guess is they may start to portray him as a robot for laughs,

I'm sure they'll find something, even if he is the 2nd coming....