Balsillie's Back

[K9 Unit 1]

ahh righty i see, still kinda falls in the category of fail though huh? :P

[RadioGaGa 162]

ahh righty i see, still kinda falls in the category of fail though huh? :P

They had a goal in mind of 5,000 so...yes fail. But, I didnt' think they'd get more than 500...especially with rain forecast. I'd be interested to know how many of those 3500 have ever been to a Dogs game ($24) who are willing to pay $75-150+ for NHL

[flyers10 57]

Hockey can make it here in Phoenix. I moved here in 96 from Philly. I grew up with my dad's season tickets to the Flyers for 17 years(front row, top of the circle). There are a lot of hockey lovers from states like PA, MI, IL, MN, WI, NY, NJ, OH, etc that moved to Phoenix and go to the games. 3x the number of kids play ice hockey now compared to before the Coyotes. If they can get some winning seasons and make the playoffs they can make it. Look at the Cardinals football team. Went from years of crap to 1 win from Super Bowl champs and every home game has 60,000+ and is sold out. They Coyotes have a decent nucleus of young players. A couple pickups and tweaks and they should be at least a 6th - 8th spot playoff team next season.

[chippa13 1844]

I'd like to personally thank Ken Campbell of the Hockey News for putting into print what I have been saying for years now about hockey in Phoenix.

[Leafsrule16 5]

It sickens me to think that a hockey league wont allow another Canadian team. However, i myself am not sure that Hamilton would be the best place. The leafs are close, the bulldogs are already there .. Why not Winnipeg? Hockey is Canadian, it belongs in Canada. I get the nhl has this anti Canada policy (even giving way more money to hockey USA), but give me a break, almost any large city in Canada could (unless already doing so) support a nhl team. Halifax could do it, im sure Winnipeg could do it.

[chippa13 1844]

The NHL is not anti-Canada. An awful lot of work went into keeping the 6 teams that are in Canada there (at least 3 of the 6 were in dire straits not too long ago). The NHL is about markets. Canada is saturated as far as the NHL is concerned. Any further expansion in Canada would be the league cannabilizing itself. The league as a whole gains nothing from another team in Canada.

You know why the NHL gives more money to USA Hockey (get the name right), it is because there is the potential for growth in the USA. Folks in Canada are pretty well versed in the game of hockey.

In short, fuck off with the woe is me concerning the NHL and Canada. You've got 6 teams and 30 million people. I'd say you're covered.

[RadioGaGa 162]

The NHL is not anti-Canada. An awful lot of work went into keeping the 6 teams that are in Canada there (at least 3 of the 6 were in dire straits not too long ago). The NHL is about markets. Canada is saturated as far as the NHL is concerned. Any further expansion in Canada would be the league cannabilizing itself. The league as a whole gains nothing from another team in Canada.

You know why the NHL gives more money to USA Hockey (get the name right), it is because there is the potential for growth in the USA. Folks in Canada are pretty well versed in the game of hockey.

In short, fuck off with the woe is me concerning the NHL and Canada. You've got 6 teams and 30 million people. I'd say you're covered.

If you can correct hockey USA/USA Hockey...I can point out that we've got 33M people:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/0...090326a-eng.htm

[chippa13 1844]

I was rounding. <_<

[Jordan 13]

The issue isn't about population; it is about the hockey fan, willing to buy tickets population.

[chippa13 1844]

The issue is about growth.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

The issue isn't about population; it is about the hockey fan, willing to buy tickets population.

There are teams in Denver and Phoenix because Canadian fans didn't buy the tickets.

[RadioGaGa 162]

The issue isn't about population; it is about the hockey fan, willing to buy tickets population.

There are teams in Denver and Phoenix because Canadian fans didn't buy the tickets.

I thought those teams left Canada not because of lack of fan support...but the failures to build new arenas. Winterpeg has since built the MTS Centre (Not quite a full sized NHL building...by todays standards...hold about 16,000 I think) and the Colisee is Quebec is still in use in the QMJHL. To the best of my knowledge...little has been done to it since the Nords left.

[s Greens 0]

The issue isn't about population; it is about the hockey fan, willing to buy tickets population.

Living in Winnipeg for 21 years, I can tell you bring a team here wont work because we are way too cheap to buy a $60-$80 ticket. Im confident we could fill the MTS centre for the first year or two, but after that, we're as screwed as we were in 96

[Jordan 13]

There are teams in Denver and Phoenix because Canadian fans didn't buy the tickets.

That's completely untrue. Both teams were selling out.

In both cases new arenas were needed with more luxury boxes etc. When the owners sold, there was no local ownership interest.

In the case of Balsillie and Hamilton, you have the ownership interest and a certain sell out.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

It rather seems if they were selling out neither club would have been in the finanical situations they were in prior to their moves. Which would have lead to the building of new arenas....

[chippa13 1844]

They were selling tickets but they didn't have enough money from other sources; ie. lack of luxury boxes, not enough corporate support. They were getting killed at the time paying US salary dollars and taking in Canadian revenue dollars due to the exchange rate.

[Chadd 916]

They were selling tickets but they didn't have enough money from other sources; ie. lack of luxury boxes, not enough corporate support. They were getting killed at the time paying US salary dollars and taking in Canadian revenue dollars due to the exchange rate.

And that was with $20-$30M payrolls.

[s Greens 0]

There are teams in Denver and Phoenix because Canadian fans didn't buy the tickets.

That's completely untrue. Both teams were selling out.

Do some research:

NHL Attendance since 1990

The old winnipeg arena held 15 565 for NHL hockey

According to those numbers:

90,144 seats sold over 7 seasons / 108955 seats available = 82% full

Note the last season (2006): they were only selling about 70% of their tickets

You are right in one aspect, the move wasnt strictly based on attendance. Hell, Keith Tkachuk ate up 6 mill a year of the pay roll, being paid to him largely by the city of winnipeg (they financed the team for the last couple years). What it came down to was the NHL was outgrowing Winnipeg in terms of sponsorship and ticket prices

[Jordan 13]

A couple of points...

You should exclued the final season. Of course attendance went down after they knew the team was leaving. As far as a measurement, a more accurate assessment would be measured by looking at say the three years before the final season.

By that measure you see that they sold over 85% of their seats during the three seasons prior to the final one.

Be that as it may, it had little to do with ticket sales...lack of a local buyer, combined with the economics of the league at the time are what moved the team.

[Chadd 916]

A couple of points...

You should exclued the final season. Of course attendance went down after they knew the team was leaving. As far as a measurement, a more accurate assessment would be measured by looking at say the three years before the final season.

By that measure you see that they sold over 85% of their seats during the three seasons prior to the final one.

Be that as it may, it had little to do with ticket sales...lack of a local buyer, combined with the economics of the league at the time are what moved the team.

They couldn't sell tickets at the prices they needed to sustain the team in Winnipeg. Parse it any way you want, the city could not continue to support the team or they never would have left.

[Jordan 13]

Chadd you have it wrong..It had to do with an inadequate arena, and no local buyer. You can "parse" it into ticket sales if you wish, you will just be wrong.

Funny, how in Pheonix, it isn't a ticket sale/price problem....blah, blah, blah

[Chadd 916]

Chadd you have it wrong..It had to do with an inadequate arena, and no local buyer. You can "parse" it into ticket sales if you wish, you will just be wrong.

Funny, how in Pheonix, it isn't a ticket sale/price problem....blah, blah, blah

They couldn't charge people a price that would allow them to compete financially. You can go without suites if the people in the building pay enough, they couldn't/wouldn't. Part of it was the arena, part of it was the Canadian dollar and part of it was the arena.

Phoenix has a lot of problems, the biggest one is that they put the new building in a bad location for the fans. This was a real estate developer putting the arena in his development, not building it where the fans will continue to come out without a winning team.

[Jordan 13]

The new building issue has to be put in context of the times.

1) there was no cap in place, so all the teams were in competition with each other, and budgets were rising.

2) all over the US teams were building new stadiums, with luxury suites. Most of the time they had significant government help in putting up those facilities.

3) there was no gov't funding available for a new facility in either Winnepeg or Quebec City.

No suites means lower revenue regardless of the price that you could charge for a ticket. Suites get sold to corporate clients, and as such have value as a marketing initiative and are for the most part a very different client base than regular seats. Of course there some overlap, but not a lot.

[Chadd 916]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=286141

The NHL Board of Governors approved a bid Wednesday by Jerry Reinsdorf to assume ownership of the financially troubled Phoenix Coyotes, and unanimously rejected an application by Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie to buy the team.

"The criteria set forth in the (NHL) constitution and bylaws relates to financial wherewithal, character, integrity and the view whether or not the other owners would deem you a good partner," Bettman said.

[DarkStar50 679]

As if these owners are an impeccable bunch.