2009 VMA's

[RadioGaGa 162]

well, he *is* a genius. A gay fish, but a genius.

What's next, "Taylor Swift hates black people."?????

Nah...Taylor loves black people...she's straight up thug!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPOiqtf2FTE

[tro 4]

Why would Kayne care about a someone not winning a moon man, oh the injustice of the world. Bad shit will happen to this dude one day.

Eric, cool if you don't like rap music, but Tupac and Biggy had so much talent it is ridiculous(mid 90s was the mecca of rap).

Tupac might be one of the best songwriters off all time right up there with McCartney, Springsteen, Dylon, or anyone else you want to throw in the mix. Not your flavor, but the talent sure was there.

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

Why would Kayne care about a someone not winning a moon man, oh the injustice of the world. Bad shit will happen to this dude one day.

Eric, cool if you don't like rap music, but Tupac and Biggy had so much talent it is ridiculous(mid 90s was the mecca of rap).

Tupac might be one of the best songwriters off all time right up there with McCartney, Springsteen, Dylon, or anyone else you want to throw in the mix. Not your flavor, but the talent sure was there.

"Bad shit" has already happened to him. He was nearly killed in a car crash, and his mom died after plastic surgery. Not that I'm discounting what he did, nor do I like his music, but those are two pretty bad things to happen to someone.

[eric42434224 1]

You did not just put Tupac in the same sentence as Dylan and McCartney did you?

Rappers cant come close to those guys. Lyrics aside, they also write music, melody, and harmony.....not sample it.

Tupac may be a talented rapper, and even lyricist......but as a songwriter up there with Dylan and McCartney? LOL. Springsteen maybe ;)

[chippa13 1844]

Why would Kayne care about a someone not winning a moon man, oh the injustice of the world. Bad shit will happen to this dude one day.

Eric, cool if you don't like rap music, but Tupac and Biggy had so much talent it is ridiculous(mid 90s was the mecca of rap).

Tupac might be one of the best songwriters off all time right up there with McCartney, Springsteen, Dylon, or anyone else you want to throw in the mix. Not your flavor, but the talent sure was there.

"Bad shit" has already happened to him. He was nearly killed in a car crash, and his mom died after plastic surgery. Not that I'm discounting what he did, nor do I like his music, but those are two pretty bad things to happen to someone.

You mean the plastic surgery that she was told could be very dangerous for her, that surgery? If you're so vain that you put your appearance above being alive, well, them's the breaks.

As for the McCartney thing, I don't know about that but I do know that Tupac and Biggie are much bigger acts dead than they were alive. Artists dying young is the best thing that can happen for the folks that will inherit the rights to their stuff.

[tro 4]

You did not just put Tupac in the same sentence as Dylan and McCartney did you?

Rappers cant come close to those guys. Lyrics aside, they also write music, melody, and harmony.....not sample it.

Tupac may be a talented rapper, and even lyricist......but as a songwriter up there with Dylan and McCartney? LOL. Springsteen maybe ;)

My music collection falls in two sections, 90's rap and 60's(early 70s) rock. And without questions 2pac, is right up there. When I said songwriter, I more or less meant lyrics.

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

Why would Kayne care about a someone not winning a moon man, oh the injustice of the world. Bad shit will happen to this dude one day.

Eric, cool if you don't like rap music, but Tupac and Biggy had so much talent it is ridiculous(mid 90s was the mecca of rap).

Tupac might be one of the best songwriters off all time right up there with McCartney, Springsteen, Dylon, or anyone else you want to throw in the mix. Not your flavor, but the talent sure was there.

"Bad shit" has already happened to him. He was nearly killed in a car crash, and his mom died after plastic surgery. Not that I'm discounting what he did, nor do I like his music, but those are two pretty bad things to happen to someone.

You mean the plastic surgery that she was told could be very dangerous for her, that surgery? If you're so vain that you put your appearance above being alive, well, them's the breaks.

As for the McCartney thing, I don't know about that but I do know that Tupac and Biggie are much bigger acts dead than they were alive. Artists dying young is the best thing that can happen for the folks that will inherit the rights to their stuff.

So a poor choice means the death will come any easier? Don't bother answering, we all know it doesn't.

[eric42434224 1]

You did not just put Tupac in the same sentence as Dylan and McCartney did you?

Rappers cant come close to those guys. Lyrics aside, they also write music, melody, and harmony.....not sample it.

Tupac may be a talented rapper, and even lyricist......but as a songwriter up there with Dylan and McCartney? LOL. Springsteen maybe ;)

My music collection falls in two sections, 90's rap and 60's(early 70s) rock. And without questions 2pac, is right up there. When I said songwriter, I more or less meant lyrics.

That is an extremely important distinction. Judging the quality of lyrics can be very subjective. But when looking at the talent of songwriting as a whole, Dylan and McCartney are lightyears ahead of Tupac. Creating melody, harmony & arrangements along with lyrics and playing several instruments.....they arent even in the same league.

Tupac is no doubt talented, and seems that his lyrics hit a chord for a generation with its social relevance and angst. But then compare another artist that wrote songs with social commentary and angst....Kurt Cobain....and again the added layers of the underlying instrumental composition puts him above as a songwriter IMO.

True, I am not a huge fan of rap, but I find it difficult to compare a rap artist with many other musical artists on a songwriting basis. Simply on the basis that they create great lyrics, and may even create great rhythms with the rap and beat....but they usually arent even involved with the other aspects outside of sampling another artists work.

I cant argue that Dylans lyrics are better than Tupacs. Some will see more in them and be affected by them more than the other.

Just my opinion of course.

[chippa13 1844]

Why would Kayne care about a someone not winning a moon man, oh the injustice of the world. Bad shit will happen to this dude one day.

Eric, cool if you don't like rap music, but Tupac and Biggy had so much talent it is ridiculous(mid 90s was the mecca of rap).

Tupac might be one of the best songwriters off all time right up there with McCartney, Springsteen, Dylon, or anyone else you want to throw in the mix. Not your flavor, but the talent sure was there.

"Bad shit" has already happened to him. He was nearly killed in a car crash, and his mom died after plastic surgery. Not that I'm discounting what he did, nor do I like his music, but those are two pretty bad things to happen to someone.

You mean the plastic surgery that she was told could be very dangerous for her, that surgery? If you're so vain that you put your appearance above being alive, well, them's the breaks.

As for the McCartney thing, I don't know about that but I do know that Tupac and Biggie are much bigger acts dead than they were alive. Artists dying young is the best thing that can happen for the folks that will inherit the rights to their stuff.

So a poor choice means the death will come any easier? Don't bother answering, we all know it doesn't.

Let's think about who probably paid for said surgery.

"Mr. West, this surgery would be very dangerous and could kill her."

"But doc, she'll be the smokinest moms on the block."

"Will that be cash or charge?"

[Juice_Slowjamz 0]

Why would Kayne care about a someone not winning a moon man, oh the injustice of the world. Bad shit will happen to this dude one day.

Eric, cool if you don't like rap music, but Tupac and Biggy had so much talent it is ridiculous(mid 90s was the mecca of rap).

Tupac might be one of the best songwriters off all time right up there with McCartney, Springsteen, Dylon, or anyone else you want to throw in the mix. Not your flavor, but the talent sure was there.

"Bad shit" has already happened to him. He was nearly killed in a car crash, and his mom died after plastic surgery. Not that I'm discounting what he did, nor do I like his music, but those are two pretty bad things to happen to someone.

You mean the plastic surgery that she was told could be very dangerous for her, that surgery? If you're so vain that you put your appearance above being alive, well, them's the breaks.

As for the McCartney thing, I don't know about that but I do know that Tupac and Biggie are much bigger acts dead than they were alive. Artists dying young is the best thing that can happen for the folks that will inherit the rights to their stuff.

So a poor choice means the death will come any easier? Don't bother answering, we all know it doesn't.

Let's think about who probably paid for said surgery.

"Mr. West, this surgery would be very dangerous and could kill her."

"But doc, she'll be the smokinest moms on the block."

"Will that be cash or charge?"

Again, does that minimize the sorrow for him as well as his family?

[eric42434224 1]

It probably makes his sorrow worse, but how sad it makes him isnt the point I think he was making. It is more difficult to feel sad for her (and him if he facilitated or encouraged it) as she was taking a known and serious risk with a dangerous procedure in the name of vanity.

Do you feel bad for the skydivers that just died? Sure you do....so do I. But they were jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. So my pity is diminished a bit.

If you knowingly put yourself at risk of something bad happening, and then that bad thing happens, you just dont feel as sad for them. Even more so when the risk is death, and was done for vanity.

[Chadd 916]

That is an extremely important distinction. Judging the quality of lyrics can be very subjective. But when looking at the talent of songwriting as a whole, Dylan and McCartney are lightyears ahead of Tupac. Creating melody, harmony & arrangements along with lyrics and playing several instruments.....they arent even in the same league.

Tupac is no doubt talented, and seems that his lyrics hit a chord for a generation with its social relevance and angst. But then compare another artist that wrote songs with social commentary and angst....Kurt Cobain....and again the added layers of the underlying instrumental composition puts him above as a songwriter IMO.

True, I am not a huge fan of rap, but I find it difficult to compare a rap artist with many other musical artists on a songwriting basis. Simply on the basis that they create great lyrics, and may even create great rhythms with the rap and beat....but they usually arent even involved with the other aspects outside of sampling another artists work.

I cant argue that Dylans lyrics are better than Tupacs. Some will see more in them and be affected by them more than the other.

Just my opinion of course.

Actually, Dave Grohl has commented a few times about Cobain and his songwriting "prowess". Kurt is the shining example of dying young making you a star forever.

[eric42434224 1]

Cobain is no McCartney/Lennon, but he was a legitimate "star" when alive. A talented songwriter for sure. But like Tupac, the P&L on the balance sheet of the Estate will forever be changed when he died young.

It seems that maybe Tupac and Cobain have a lot of similarities.

And Dave isnt a bad songwriter himself ;)

[Chadd 916]

Cobain is no McCartney/Lennon, but he was a legitimate "star" when alive. A talented songwriter for sure. But like Tupac, the P&L on the balance sheet of the Estate will forever be changed when he died young.

It seems that maybe Tupac and Cobain have a lot of similarities.

And Dave isnt a bad songwriter himself ;)

Grohl's comments were less than positive regarding Cobain's songwriting. Personally, I think he was below average for that genre/era.

[eric42434224 1]

Cobain is no McCartney/Lennon, but he was a legitimate "star" when alive. A talented songwriter for sure. But like Tupac, the P&L on the balance sheet of the Estate will forever be changed when he died young.

It seems that maybe Tupac and Cobain have a lot of similarities.

And Dave isnt a bad songwriter himself ;)

Grohl's comments were less than positive regarding Cobain's songwriting. Personally, I think he was below average for that genre/era.

Different strokes as they say. I was never a huge fan of Nirvana, but I could appreciate them.

I was more into the other bands from that area. Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, and to a lesser extent Pearl Jam. Also geographically...not "grunge"....early Queensryche.

[chippa13 1844]

Cobain is no McCartney/Lennon, but he was a legitimate "star" when alive. A talented songwriter for sure. But like Tupac, the P&L on the balance sheet of the Estate will forever be changed when he died young.

It seems that maybe Tupac and Cobain have a lot of similarities.

And Dave isnt a bad songwriter himself ;)

Come on, Cobain gets credit more because his song was the first of the grunge explosion. Bon Jovi ushered in the bubble gum rock but noone looks back at their first couple of albums as songwriting genius. To be honest, I think folks put Cobain on such a songwriting pedestal because he put himself out there as the tortured artist.

[eric42434224 1]

Ushering in a particular musical fad or genre may have more influence on the general publics opinion on the talent of an artist, no argument there. I dont hold him on a pedestal by any means, but I do think he was a very good songwriter. He had a relatively unique quality to his songs, obviously hit a nerve lyrically, and certainly had great hooks and melodies. I would look at his work and consider it pretty darn good, regardless of genre and/or popularity. But I do not subscribe to the god-like reverence many show him.

I reserve that reverence and pedestal for Iron Maiden! :D

[mack 44]

I'm going to have to disagree with Cobain not being great at a songwriter. His simplicity was genius; it's all fifth chords. Using chords punk bands have been using since its inception but better.

[Aussie Joe 0]

Let's not forget that Cobain also wrote orchestral scores. When someone has that sort of ability, you surely have to step back in amazement.

Grohl/the Devil can say what he wants, he owes the platform for his success to Nirvana.

[chippa13 1844]

Could his simplicity not have been just a lack of guitar ability? Just a thought to stoke the fire.

Speaking of punk, Jim Carroll is no longer with us. Not a great musician by any stretch but an interesting character. Guess they'll need to add another verse to "All the people that died".

[eric42434224 1]

Maybe...maybe not. Sometimes one must know when enough is enough, and to keep the melody simple as not to overpower the composition. I believe Thelonius Monk once said something to the effect that the notes you dont play can be as important as the ones you do.

[barrett 0]

Biggie and Tupac were both great muscians , no matter what type of music it doesn't make their skills as artists any less only different. They are considered two of the premier rappers so to say their music can not compare to some classic rock isn't really right when rap music is probably the most popular genre out there. Tupac must have had something speacial for elton john to team up with the gangster rapper . And i personally like Biggie better. None the less i don't really care about what kanye did , its part of who he is. He makes great music , he is very cocky and arrogant and of course i feel bad for swift but it was only a little prank of stunt . I'm sure he isn't rying to ruin her career or anything as we all know he is very strong in voicing his opinion and being quite close with beyonce and jay. Whatever it was it really is not big deal people have to get over it

[chippa13 1844]

I hate when people try to excuse ridiculous behavior of famous people just because it is someone they like. The guy made an ass out of himself and his "little prank of stunt" was an awful thing to do. How would you feel if you had just been presented an award and someone jumped up on stage and told the entire crowd and television audience that you didn't deserve it?

As for rap being the most popular genre out there, well, there are fans of other music genres who might have a word or two about that.

[LkptTiger 1]

Kanye is definitely a doucher....but what REALLY upsets me is the fact that Lady Gaga makes money in the entertainment industry.

[lampliter87 8]

I listen to the music that I like to listen to. This means that I didn't watch, and don't care about, the VMA's. I have my opinion and my iTunes and that's all I need.