The "revolutionary" channel Z skate sharpening by Prosharp

[Mimizk 114]

Is there any method to try zChannel sharpening on normal sharpeners for example Blademaster or Blackstone's?

But anyway, zChannel is too expensive way to try because of its deep hollow...

[stick9 891]

After a few months of staking on nothing but zchannels, I'll be switching back to a good old trusty FBV. It's just too much grip for me. The glide was great, and they seemed to hold an edge pretty well but I want a little give every now and then. I don't like feeling locked into the ice all the time. Switching hollows and channel depth didn't really help that. It got a little better, but now enough to make be a believer.

[jimmy 194]

After a few months of staking on nothing but zchannels, I'll be switching back to a good old trusty FBV. It's just too much grip for me. The glide was great, and they seemed to hold an edge pretty well but I want a little give every now and then. I don't like feeling locked into the ice all the time. Switching hollows and channel depth didn't really help that. It got a little better, but now enough to make be a believer.

While the ZC does use a hollow, it certainly can be made to not grab the ice, just like can be done with hollows. When I was the first shop to do ZCs in North America, I first followed the directions from Sweden, which they always recommend the shallowest hollows. My test customers were slipping all over. Swedish type sharpenings don't usually work for North American type skaters, so I made my own adjustments to give more bite. Perhaps the place you went was inexperienced in ZCs because it's not that difficult to do.

[stick9 891]

I don't believe was inexperience on the part of the shop or the person doing the sharpening. I tried two different hollows, 5/8ths & 3/4 and two different depth channels. The 3/4 with the shallower hollow was a bit better, but still more grip than I am accustom to.

I have two sets of steel so I'd like to do an actual side by side test between zchannel and a FBV. Why pay for a zchannel if I am getting just as much glide with a FBV... All that said, if I could drop the grip and keep the glide I would be sold.

Edited May 11, 2015 by stick9

[jimmy 194]

I don't believe was inexperience on the part of the shop or the person doing the sharpening. I tried two different hollows, 5/8ths & 3/4 and two different depth channels. The 3/4 with the shallower hollow was a bit better, but still more grip than I am accustom to.

I have two sets of steel so I'd like to do an actual side by side test between zchannel and a FBV. Why pay for a zchannel if I am getting just as much glide with a FBV... All that said, if I could drop the grip and keep the glide I would be sold.

Most of my customers who were on FBV and tried ZC like the FBV better, but those who like the ZC really like it, it's a good option and worth a try to experiment. I have been doing ZC since before it came out in early 2010. I just bought a new machine and it has a different dressing system than my 2 older machines. A skate sharpened on the new machine sharpened on the exact same setting as the old machines was WAY sharper to customers and I had to make a big adjustment to make it feel the same.

[flip12 715]

Could you share a range of starting points they recommend? Is there a way to guess a starting point depending on what one's used to coming from a traditional ROH? I tend to like my radius very shallow, probably more like what's common in Sweden (at the LHS closest to my place, which is just one of two in the whole city, they just do a standard 15mm, and they simply don't offer anything else). Would it be common to try a shallower hollow than usual because the channel has the effect of emphasizing the grip of what edge there is or maybe vice versa? I'd like to get a little insight on the theory before I start grinding my steel down next fall. There's a place that does it in Malmo, but their replies were vague by email and it's a bit pricey to physically go back and forth just to get some initial information.

[jimmy 194]

Could you share a range of starting points they recommend? Is there a way to guess a starting point depending on what one's used to coming from a traditional ROH? I tend to like my radius very shallow, probably more like what's common in Sweden (at the LHS closest to my place, which is just one of two in the whole city, they just do a standard 15mm, and they simply don't offer anything else). Would it be common to try a shallower hollow than usual because the channel has the effect of emphasizing the grip of what edge there is or maybe vice versa? I'd like to get a little insight on the theory before I start grinding my steel down next fall. There's a place that does it in Malmo, but their replies were vague by email and it's a bit pricey to physically go back and forth just to get some initial information.

Try a 18-20mm and a medium channel. Wider channel is more grip. I suggest keep the channel the same and adjust the hollow.

[Boostinmister2 16]

http://prosharpnorthamerica.com/zuperior/

"The Zuperior blades helps to Improve your skating – accelleration, agility and speed. Its a new faster game with the emphasis on speed, agility and skills development.

The Zuperior blade profile combines a 13 ft radius (for more power in the push and better glide) with a 7 ft radius on the toe (for quicker acceleration and shifts). Ten thousands of pro and minor hockey players have already made the switch. The Zuperior blade profile is developed in cooperation with Thomas Storm who works with skill development for the Detroit Red Wings and a vast number of other NHL players."

Has anyone tried this? Wouldn't mind getting my LS3's profiled like this.

[jimmy 194]

http://prosharpnorthamerica.com/zuperior/

"The Zuperior blades helps to Improve your skating – accelleration, agility and speed. Its a new faster game with the emphasis on speed, agility and skills development.

The Zuperior blade profile combines a 13 ft radius (for more power in the push and better glide) with a 7 ft radius on the toe (for quicker acceleration and shifts). Ten thousands of pro and minor hockey players have already made the switch. The Zuperior blade profile is developed in cooperation with Thomas Storm who works with skill development for the Detroit Red Wings and a vast number of other NHL players."

Has anyone tried this? Wouldn't mind getting my LS3's profiled like this.

I have done a couple of thousand 7/13' radius, most skaters really like it. Works best for aggressive hot-dog type skaters.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I have done a couple of thousand 7/13' radius, most skaters really like it. Works best for aggressive hot-dog type skaters.

But Jimmy the thing I don't like about the post that was quoted is that the Detroit players do not use that profile as the mainstay. So it is kind of misleading.

[jimmy 194]

But Jimmy the thing I don't like about the post that was quoted is that the Detroit players do not use that profile as the mainstay. So it is kind of misleading.

Back when Detroit won their last cup, many of their players were using various combination radius, Prosharp didn't have one specifically called the Zuperior back then. The article doesnt say Detroit players are using it, rather that Sturm works with many players. BTW, the Zuperior is now 7/12/26', not sure where that quote was teken from, perhaps old google cache.

[Boostinmister2 16]

26ft radius in the back?!

[flip12 715]

Sounds great. I'd try it.

[jimmy 194]

26ft radius in the back?!

Yes, you got to take into consideration many of their radius are tailored for Swedis/scandinavian skaters. A north american skater would whine about the skate feeling like a ski, as such not many of us would like that particular radius, just like we don't like skating on 1" hollows.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Yes, you got to take into consideration many of their radius are tailored for Swedis/scandinavian skaters. A north american skater would whine about the skate feeling like a ski, as such not many of us would like that particular radius, just like we don't like skating on 1" hollows.

And that is very correct. Back when Mr Ericsonn was here as I have mentioned before Jimmy he said that exact thing that the 71226 would be more of a Euro thing as NA has a smaller rinks and more of a start and stop game in comparison.

[PJL16 0]

I've tried ZC and I'm someone who prefers a deep hollow. I skate o a 3/8" ROH and use the FBV 95/1 (slightly sharper than the 1/2). I tried the ZC 1, which is supposedly the equivalent to a 3/8" ROH. I was extremely impressed, and felt I had increased glide over the ROH, but nothing noticeable over the FBV. I plan on getting an FBV sharpening done again to more closely compare the turning control as well as glide. After reading some of the other posts, I'm curious if maybe it does benefit those who prefer a deeper hollow...who knows, just a thought. I'm currently awaiting my steel to get sent back with the FBV I'm accustomed to, in order for a back to back test!

Cheers

[elpresidente99 1]

Hello guys, i skate now for 3 months on zchannel. At first i was very impressed of the noticable better glide and the bite. I usually have a 3/8" ROH sometimes switching to 1/2" ROH. But now i think sometimes you have to much of bite. Sometimes i feel stuck because of the bite. i dont know how to explain. You have to be spot on with every stop and crossover otherwise, you loose Speed or the ice catches the skate. Especially at the end of games when stopping power and skating power are reduced because of fatigue. Now i wanna go back and look if i will miss the zchannel. But how??

Do i just sharpen the desired hollow. And after a while the channel get smaller and disappear or do i have to grind it down and do a new ROH.

Thanks

[jimmy 194]

The way some places are doing the ZC is simply putting in a hollow, then running the blades over a thin metal wheel to put in the channel. In my experience, most like the FBV better but there are quite a few who love the ZC, perhaps it's just the more grip from having "hollow" edges.

[VegasHockey 1280]

Digging up an older thread. I

have recently been playing around with various profiles and sharpenings. A friend recently purchased a Pro Sharp machine and I now have the ability to mess around with the Quad 0, 1, and 2 profiling.

As I used ZC in the past, I wanted to give it a try again. From what I remember when going at slow speeds or cruising it felt like the steel had no grip in the ice, almost like you are floating on top. It was only when you engaged the edges that the steel would bite into the ice. The feeling of floating on the ice was unusual to me and I could not adapt to it but reading through this thread it seems perhaps I should have gone with a different width and depth of ZC sharpening. I personally don't feel any benefits between FBV and a standard ROH and skate on a fairly flat radius, 5/8" on hard ice and 3/4" on soft ice.

I cant find specific details and was hoping someone could point me to some documentation or articles I could read about the various ZC combinations and such. Since I am doing this all myself I appreciate any information that others can share. 

Thanks in advance. 

[Ric_Flair 4]

On 5/11/2015 at 10:23 PM, flip12 said:

Could you share a range of starting points they recommend? Is there a way to guess a starting point depending on what one's used to coming from a traditional ROH? I tend to like my radius very shallow, probably more like what's common in Sweden (at the LHS closest to my place, which is just one of two in the whole city, they just do a standard 15mm, and they simply don't offer anything else). Would it be common to try a shallower hollow than usual because the channel has the effect of emphasizing the grip of what edge there is or maybe vice versa? I'd like to get a little insight on the theory before I start grinding my steel down next fall. There's a place that does it in Malmo, but their replies were vague by email and it's a bit pricey to physically go back and forth just to get some initial information.

I see this is old, but a 15mm is a DEEP hollow here in Sweden. 
If you're still searching for places to do sharpenings in Swe, drop me a PM. There's a great shop here in Gbg.

[flip12 715]

6 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

I see this is old, but a 15mm is a DEEP hollow here in Sweden. 
If you're still searching for places to do sharpenings in Swe, drop me a PM. There's a great shop here in Gbg.

Thanks for the info!

Luckily, I'm at a new club where we have a ProSharp 1001, and I get my skates done at 25mm now, which is fine, but I'm thinking of going down to 30 maybe once I get some issues with my skates fixed. I'm thinking of getting my own dressing tool, so I can try out different combos with the Z-Channel. There's at least one other guy who wants to try it, but none that I know of that have actually dressed the wheel for that yet. In Copenhagen, there are only two shops and the one I used to live closer to wouldn't redress their wheel. The other one will, but now I don't need to go there for sharpening anymore either.

Have you tried Z-Channel yet? What hollow, channel, radius are you skating on?

[Ric_Flair 4]

1 hour ago, flip12 said:

Thanks for the info!

Luckily, I'm at a new club where we have a ProSharp 1001, and I get my skates done at 25mm now, which is fine, but I'm thinking of going down to 30 maybe once I get some issues with my skates fixed. I'm thinking of getting my own dressing tool, so I can try out different combos with the Z-Channel. There's at least one other guy who wants to try it, but none that I know of that have actually dressed the wheel for that yet. In Copenhagen, there are only two shops and the one I used to live closer to wouldn't redress their wheel. The other one will, but now I don't need to go there for sharpening anymore either.

Have you tried Z-Channel yet? What hollow, channel, radius are you skating on?

Good to hear.

have not tried channel Z yet, but will consider it. I am playing around with hollows atm, between 15 and 25. Will try a 13 next go I think. Don’t think I’ll ever go much above 20, tho I have recently used 22 ellipse, and have used a 25 quad and it wasn’t terrible. 
 

I used 10 back in the day, but that was in Canada on smaller rinks, where I liked the responsive grip and acceleration. 

Pretty happy with the quad over the other profiles tho,  and now really want to dial in on the hollow. I think the channel z (if I can find someone) will give me the bite/grip I crave, and the glide/speed… let’s see 

[Ric_Flair 4]

@kkskate, @jimmy I just had a channel Z put on my blades; it is quite noticeable that the channel is not perfectly straight down the center of the blade; starts almost in the center at one end and ends quite skewed to one side on the other end. It would be due to poor technician skill and/or maybe blade being slightly bent/warped (it's Tydan)... anyway, will this affect how I experience the blades... much?

TIA

[kkskate 12]

4 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

@kkskate, @jimmy I just had a channel Z put on my blades; it is quite noticeable that the channel is not perfectly straight down the center of the blade; starts almost in the center at one end and ends quite skewed to one side on the other end. It would be due to poor technician skill and/or maybe blade being slightly bent/warped (it's Tydan)... anyway, will this affect how I experience the blades... much?

TIA

I don’t really do the Z-channels but I recall Prosharp mentioning the channel doesn’t have to be perfectly centered. Likely as long as it isn’t too close to either edge it’s fine.

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, kkskate said:

I don’t really do the Z-channels but I recall Prosharp mentioning the channel doesn’t have to be perfectly centered. Likely as long as it isn’t too close to either edge it’s fine.

Correct