Power Balance Bracelet

[the_game 452]

I'll admit it, I dropped 20 bucks on a similar product. I bought one of the EFX Bracelets (http://www.efxusa.com/home).

Placebo or not, it works. why or how it works, I have no clue. Read their site explanation, 'holographic technology' makes no sense at all. I did a test with this bracelet similar to what Jason explained where you hold your hands out like a T and stand on one leg, and try to get pushed over. Somehow this thing gave you better balance. And Personally, I do feel a difference when I skate with the Bracelet and without it.

It could all be in my head and I am fine with that, but I think it actually works.

[jsykes 35]

Jarick, you're assuming when they say "frequency" they're talking about sound waves, which is what you keep bringing up.

Now, without suggesting anything is possible or not with these things, there are other forms of frequencies out there that have absolutely NOTHING to do with sounds, subwoofers and wattage.

A radio wave is a frequency, as does a microwave, an electrical wave, a light wave, even a wave in water. A frequency just refers to the distance between peaks in a waveform. There are a lot of things out there that are not sound waves, which is what you're referring to.

So I'm in no way giving these things any credit (though I'd love to try one someday just for fun), I dont see anywhere where they say they produce a sonic wave, which is what you're trying to debunk.

[Jarick 5]

7.8 Hz is a subsonic frequency though. It's not a light wave, or radio wave, or visible wave. Those are all on the same spectrum, just different wavelengths.

If you want to recreate a 7.8 Hz wave, it's going to be with some kind of transducer.

[SolarWind 23]

You could copy the one in the video. We put the cellphone aside, then I put one hand over my sternum while the other arm was stretched to the side. He tried pushing down on the outstretched arm, but I had decent strength to fight against him. Then I held the cellphone against my sternum while fighting with the outstretched hand, yet there was noticeably less strength.

If this card worked the way it's described it'd have been banned by the Olympic Committee as providing unfair advantage, but they've heard nothing of it so what gives? Also we don't see any records shattering, or Swedes winning the Olympic hockey gold?

for what it's worth I tried the cell phone trick on myself & my wife and it didn't work, so unless my blackberry emits something different from your cell you might just be overly susceptible to influence? ;)

[Jason Harris 31]

I rewatched the video I made with Don MacKenzie to determine which frequency he was referring to. He said the holograms work on light waves. Also, I don't believe he was the one who mentioned 7.3" (or whatever it was), although I missed a couple of seconds when the phone rang while I was watching; my guess is that number came from one of the other links.

Regarding the negative affects of cellphones, interestingly enough, a 10-year study was released today regarding whether heavy cellphone use leads to brain cancer. Their conclusion? They still don't know, with some in the scientific field still believing excessive amounts (thirty minutes or more daily) directly against the brain would lead to increased occurrences.

To address SolarWind's question, would I be the type to succumb to the placebo affect? Well, I definitely am a happy person with the glass is three-fourths full attitude, which I imagine would be the type of personality that would most benefit from placebos -- if the doc says I'll feel better in the morning, that sounds great to me. Plus, I've always been open to trying and embracing new technologies.

On the other hand, I seldom spend large amounts of amount before doing scads of research on the pros and cons of a product, and, as we've been discussing in the Matt and Trey thread, I don't take things on faith. Finally, if you met me, as Chadd can corroborate, you'd find I'm not the type to accept things at face value.

So I did a little searching for the effect of cellphones on strength. I couldn't find much, but I came across something that suggested there are some people who have reacted differently to cellphones, so that could explain our differences. That's somewhat similar to studies about ten years ago regarding the effect of creatine, with a certain percentage of people showing no increase in size or strength while using it. I was among that group, for I actually picked up size after I had stopped using it (which would suggest that it hadn't had either a physical or placebo effect of on me).

Could the Blackberry emit different waves than the iPhone? Absolutely. But it's also possible you administered the test slightly differently, just as it's possible that you are too much stronger than your wife in either direction, so if either of you loses X percentage of strength due to the cellphone it's not easily discernible.

[Jason Harris 31]

There's an interesting side note about how placebos came to be in an article I read recently that suggested placebos seem to be showing equal success versus medicines in clinical trials at increasing rates, and Big Pharma was trying to determine why.

The roots of the placebo problem can be traced to a lie told by an Army nurse during World War II as Allied forces stormed the beaches of southern Italy. The nurse was assisting an anesthetist named Henry Beecher, who was tending to US troops under heavy German bombardment. When the morphine supply ran low, the nurse assured a wounded soldier that he was getting a shot of potent painkiller, though her syringe contained only salt water. Amazingly, the bogus injection relieved the soldier's agony and prevented the onset of shock.

Returning to his post at Harvard after the war, Beecher became one of the nation's leading medical reformers. Inspired by the nurse's healing act of deception, he launched a crusade to promote a method of testing new medicines to find out whether they were truly effective. At the time, the process for vetting drugs was sloppy at best: Pharmaceutical companies would simply dose volunteers with an experimental agent until the side effects swamped the presumed benefits. Beecher proposed that if test subjects could be compared to a group that received a placebo, health officials would finally have an impartial way to determine whether a medicine was actually responsible for making a patient better.

In a 1955 paper titled "The Powerful Placebo," published in The Journal of the American Medical Association, Beecher described how the placebo effect had undermined the results of more than a dozen trials by causing improvement that was mistakenly attributed to the drugs being tested. He demonstrated that trial volunteers who got real medication were also subject to placebo effects; the act of taking a pill was itself somehow therapeutic, boosting the curative power of the medicine. Only by subtracting the improvement in a placebo control group could the actual value of the drug be calculated.

Anyway, one thing that is clearly illustrated is, from a clinical perspective, placebos are only considered placebos when the recipient is purposefully misled about the procedure or expected outcome. In other words, "this pill will increase your ability to see better at distance," even when it's just sugar.

The point of this is it seems to contradict the possibility that I succumbed to the placebo effect, since I had no idea what the guy was doing putting a business card in my pocket and asking me to repeat the movement.

[chk hrd 164]

the thing that bothers me about this type of product is the damage it can do to people. This product says it can improve your balance, what if it said it can cure your disease? Would you still believe it or would that be to far out there? Many people do and waste thier limited time and alot of money on crystals, faith healing ect, even though there are scientific studies proving they don't work. People are getting rich by lying and cheating other people which is not right.

Everyone I know of would like a million dollars. If a product like this worked they would be able to collect one million dollars from the James Randi Foundation...if they can prove in a scientific setting that this product works. All it takes is to fill out the form, agree with JREF on the testing and protocol and have an impartial, qualified commity oversee and test (usally double blind). Everything must be agreed upon by both parties so neither side can claim that something inappropriate took place. To date, not one person (psychics, dousers, ect) or thing (bracelets, sniffers, ect) has passed the test and collected the money.

[Rustpot 1]

the thing that bothers me about this type of product is the damage it can do to people. This product says it can improve your balance, what if it said it can cure your disease? Would you still believe it or would that be to far out there? Many people do and waste thier limited time and alot of money on crystals, faith healing ect, even though there are scientific studies proving they don't work. People are getting rich by lying and cheating other people which is not right.

People can spend their money on what they want. There are a lot of people who spend money on very useless charms like Rabbits' feet. Are you also saying that because a foot can't actually bring you luck no one should ever make them since they're preying on stupid people by lying and cheating?

People here say something is up and all you can do is spout lines about how there's no proof that it could possibly work. Give it a rest man. All you keep doing is saying the SAME thing over and over. No scientific proof, whackos on the internet have disproven the whackos selling it. And I VERY MUCH doubt JREF would ever pay out the million dollars, there would never be enough evidence or a test conclusive enough or done correctly enough for them to pay out. You know why no one has ever collected? They aren't interested in wasting time trying to convince someone who can't be convinced.

[Chadd 916]

the thing that bothers me about this type of product is the damage it can do to people. This product says it can improve your balance, what if it said it can cure your disease? Would you still believe it or would that be to far out there? Many people do and waste thier limited time and alot of money on crystals, faith healing ect, even though there are scientific studies proving they don't work. People are getting rich by lying and cheating other people which is not right.

This has nothing to do with curing disease, faith healing or anything else.

Everyone I know of would like a million dollars. If a product like this worked they would be able to collect one million dollars from the James Randi Foundation...if they can prove in a scientific setting that this product works. All it takes is to fill out the form, agree with JREF on the testing and protocol and have an impartial, qualified commity oversee and test (usally double blind). Everything must be agreed upon by both parties so neither side can claim that something inappropriate took place. To date, not one person (psychics, dousers, ect) or thing (bracelets, sniffers, ect) has passed the test and collected the money.

This is not paranormal, supernatural or occult in nature so the $1M wouldn't apply.

I know it's much easier to "win" a debate by constructing a straw man, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the product in question.

[chk hrd 164]

People here say something is up and all you can do is spout lines about how there's no proof that it could possibly work. Give it a rest man. All you keep doing is saying the SAME thing over and over. No scientific proof, whackos on the internet have disproven the whackos selling it. And I VERY MUCH doubt JREF would ever pay out the million dollars, there would never be enough evidence or a test conclusive enough or done correctly enough for them to pay out. You know why no one has ever collected? They aren't interested in wasting time trying to convince someone who can't be convinced.

So are you saying this works (as well as perpetuall motion machines, mediums, crystals, dream catchers ect.) Why? Because it works for you, yeah sounds like real scientific and irrefutable proof. I keep saying it over and over becuase there is proof that it does not work and no scientific based proof that it does. Step up and provide me with proof, not claims. You may know about the JREF challenge but I don't think you are to familiar with it or you would know that any tests and it's parameters have to be agreed upon by both parties, not just the testing party. Why has it never been won, because the people and the things they are schucking cannot pass the tests that they have approved themselves. If I had a product like a magic bracelet that worked I would definitely take a little time to win the million dollars. What better advertising for your product could there be.

I'll give it a rest when you can convince me that these products have any validity behind them. Until then I'll keep providing my opinions.

[Chadd 916]

So are you saying this works (as well as perpetuall motion machines, mediums, crystals, dream catchers ect.) Why? Because it works for you, yeah sounds like real scientific and irrefutable proof. I keep saying it over and over becuase there is proof that it does not work and no scientific based proof that it does. Step up and provide me with proof, not claims. You may know about the JREF challenge but I don't think you are to familiar with it or you would know that any tests and it's parameters have to be agreed upon by both parties, not just the testing party. Why has it never been won, because the people and the things they are schucking cannot pass the tests that they have approved themselves. If I had a product like a magic bracelet that worked I would definitely take a little time to win the million dollars. What better advertising for your product could there be.

I'll give it a rest when you can convince me that these products have any validity behind them. Until then I'll keep providing my opinions.

The JREF challenge isn't applicable in this case for the reasons I stated previously. I don't care if you like or don't like the product, but at least make applicable arguments.

[goaliemanshark 6]

The one million dollar challenge needs to opened up to stuff like this, energy massage/healing, chiropractors, acupuncture and homeopathy. Im sick of people being inconsistent with their non scientific methods. Either believe in it all or be skeptical of it all, not somewhere in between. Inconsistency really bothers me!

Oh and this might apply for the Randi million dollar challenge, they define paranormal as "not scientifically explainable; supernatural" and this can not be explained by science. This wavelength interfering with the body talk is not science. Someone should apply, if you really believe it. It can't hurt...

[Jason Harris 31]

Yesterday, I spoke with Don McKenzie, who is the Canadian distributor and the gentlemen I interviewed in the video. He said he would try to join this discussion to provide what he's learned in the eight months he's been selling the product, but one thing he said that's interesting is he offers a 30-day warranty but hasn't had anyone take advantage of it. We don't know whether consumers returned them to the store where they purchased the holograms, nor is rate of returns relevant to whether they actually work, but it is evidence that no one has been dissatisfied enough to return them directly to him.

Regarding chkhrd's question about the damage a product like this could do -- "what if it said it can cure your disease?" -- from what I've been reading, people are either able to convince themselves a dummy pill can cause positive results (placebo) or they convince themselves that it will cause harmful results (nocebos), neither of which is supposed to occur chemically because the pill is inert. So, either the holograms give people increased balance/strength, or they are inert and people are told they are being given increased balance/strength in exchange for $50. Meaning they either work for $50 or they are a placebo for $50, but the only way they turn into a nocebo is if someone convinces himself he won't be able to handle the raw power of increased balance.

[Chadd 916]

I'd love to have one for work. It would be interesting to see if it had any impact at all.

[Jason Harris 31]

What's interesting is if you start paying attention, you begin to notice pros wearing them. It looked like Paul Pierce had one on each wrist on Tuesday.

[jds 20]

Just an update on my completely non-scientific testing with one of these things. Usually, my hamstrings are as tight as a drum after the gym but they are less painful and tight after this week's gym session. I also work on balance every workout by standing on one of those round wobble boards. With bracelet, I noticed an improvement leap in terms of time that I have not experienced since starting with the board 8 months ago. Did a power skating class the other night and didn't notice any benefits but I forgot to do the drills with the bracelet off. The one thing that struck me was that after I put it on in the store I immediately had more energy (I had been a bit groggy that morning) . I just noticed the jump in energy and chalked it up to finally waking up. When I checked the packaging I read a line about how wearers would experience a better sense of "well being". I did not realize this was a claim until I read the package AFTER I had experience by jump in energy and mood. Coincidence? Perhaps. I do not plan on taking measurements or timing myself etc to gather data-this is just a fun experiment for me. My plan is to see that in the next few weeks if I feel that I am performing better than that is good enough for me (placebo or not) since I am in now way a serious athlete looking for an edge over competitors. I play hockey because it is fun and I have more fun when I feel like I am playing better and if I feel this because of a bracelet, that's enough for me. Now flame away skeptics :)

[hamstercaster 2]

I don't think that pros are a reference. I mean they are so superstitious for the most part that taping their stick a different way throws them off. You only need a pro to try the bracelet for a game and net 2 goals and an assist for him to give it the thumbs up... or give him a few bucks.

These bracelets remind me a lot of the copper bracelets my mom wears for arthritis. Some say they work, others say they don't. The mind is a very powerful thing and your state of mind often affects and/or dictates how you feel. If you believe in the "gimmick" from the start, chances are that it will work for you because your mind is telling you that it works. The opposite is also true. But if it helps you, then all the power to you

[Jason Harris 31]

I agree about pros not being a good reference. I was just making an observation that I've noticed more wearing them. And I also agree about how powerful the mind is towards self-fulfilling prophecies.

On the other hand, both of those points are irrelevant to whether the holograms DO work.

[chk hrd 164]

or DON'T

[Jason Harris 31]

Man, I can't wait until you try these for the first time!

At best, you'll say, "I take back every word I've written." At worst, you'll say, "What a placebo! I was able to bend further and lift more, but I know it was just my mind playing tricks on me....."

[chk hrd 164]

Then you'll need to send me one. There is no way I would spend my hard earned money on a scam like this. Maybe I could take an old Lance Armstrong bracelet and tape a hologram from and expired credit card to it, wouldn't that be the same thing.

[elevation 1]

Oh my god. After reading this I just put mine off. I got it round Christmas...played my first game without on Friday and broke my foot....really...uaaaahhh!

When you believe in things

That you don't understand,

Then you suffer,

Superstition aint the way

Ouch!

[docar15 1]

There is a new Swiss refrigirator maker that claims some of their models will improve your chances of quitting smoking by up to 50%.

[bob_flip 0]

Look at the NHL main page, Flyers postgame picture. Michael Leighton has one of those devices on the wrist. I saw JVR also wore one of them. Good promo!

[IniNew 53]

Good catch. He definitely is. In team colors none-the-less!