Controversy pushes girl off hockey team

[MR MIZUN0 0]

Ever since mites it has seemed that I was always on a team with a female teammate. I recall my second year of squirts where we had three females on the team. Granted each of their individual playing abilities were drastically different in terms of skill, each of them were a great addition to the team. No one complained about playing time or any of that, they were treated just like "the guys" on the team.

Now that I am in college, I play for the school's club team, where we have two females on the team. Obviously there is hitting, and the skill level is that of junior c. The two girls on our team are no where near the skill level of that, obviously they dont get much playing time. The problem is that when either of them get hit, they throw a fit. During our last game, the one girl was skating with her head down and got rocked, while she was on the ice, she gave the guy skating away a two handed had to the back of the legs.....that in my opinion is way out of line. If you are going to be playing with guys that are throwing their weight around (especially when a game gets chipy) you should realize that you are going to get hit hard, and you therefore should be able to take it like a mature adult, and just skate away. Everyone on the team realizes that the two girl's skill levels are no where near junior c play.....thats where I feel bad saying they dont belong.

Every time they step out onto the ice, I feel that either one of them could really injure themselves due to their inexperience, and lack of skill (head down). If their skill level is no where remotely close to that of the league/team then they have no business out there.

[james12lucy 0]

I agree with ice.

But also: Instead of wanting a challenge and playing on a boys team, why not play on a level up (AA?) on a girls team? Why not play with older girls? I think as long as she's not playing AAA on a boys team then there are better places for a girl to play.

Not that I have anything against girls playing with boys, but I'm 16 myself and we had a girl in the league last year, and it was just weird. How do you play around her? Can you "take the body" or will you go to jail or something? Ok probably not jail but still can you push her chest area or should you avoid that? Just weird stuff, and there's PLENTY of girls teams around here.

I had this issue long ago, before there were any real girls leagues around in small town Ontario. To be honest, at one point some girls were better than some of the lads on my teams, then we got older and physically mature. That was the point we dominated and the girls tended to either drop off or find girls leagues. I do recall one smoking hot girl on another team when I was about 14. At first I was afraid to forecheck her (defenceman) and would curl off after she dumped the puck ou; then I got sat. After my missed shift she was fair game. I laid her and every one of her defensive mates out every change I could get. Would I hit a girl off the ice? Never. But on the ice she was fair game in my opinion. You can't take it; don't play, simple enough.

As a joke one of my teammates wanted to fight her and all everyone said was don't punch, just jersey... He never did, and we're all happier for it.

[MR MIZUN0 0]

Ever since mites it has seemed that I was always on a team with a female teammate. I recall my second year of squirts where we had three females on the team. Granted each of their individual playing abilities were drastically different in terms of skill, each of them were a great addition to the team. No one complained about playing time or any of that, they were treated just like "the guys" on the team.

Now that I am in college, I play for the school's club team, where we have two females on the team. Obviously there is hitting, and the skill level is that of junior c. The two girls on our team are no where near the skill level of that, obviously they dont get much playing time. The problem is that when either of them get hit, they throw a fit. During our last game, the one girl was skating with her head down and got rocked, while she was on the ice, she gave the guy skating away a two handed had to the back of the legs.....that in my opinion is way out of line. If you are going to be playing with guys that are throwing their weight around (especially when a game gets chipy) you should realize that you are going to get hit hard, and you therefore should be able to take it like a mature adult, and just skate away. Everyone on the team realizes that the two girl's skill levels are no where near junior c play.....thats where I feel bad saying they dont belong.

Every time they step out onto the ice, I feel that either one of them could really injure themselves due to their inexperience, and lack of skill (head down). If their skill level is no where remotely close to that of the league/team then they have no business out there.

[Hradsky 1]

Ever since mites it has seemed that I was always on a team with a female teammate. I recall my second year of squirts where we had three females on the team. Granted each of their individual playing abilities were drastically different in terms of skill, each of them were a great addition to the team. No one complained about playing time or any of that, they were treated just like "the guys" on the team.

Now that I am in college, I play for the school's club team, where we have two females on the team. Obviously there is hitting, and the skill level is that of junior c. The two girls on our team are no where near the skill level of that, obviously they dont get much playing time. The problem is that when either of them get hit, they throw a fit. During our last game, the one girl was skating with her head down and got rocked, while she was on the ice, she gave the guy skating away a two handed had to the back of the legs.....that in my opinion is way out of line. If you are going to be playing with guys that are throwing their weight around (especially when a game gets chipy) you should realize that you are going to get hit hard, and you therefore should be able to take it like a mature adult, and just skate away. Everyone on the team realizes that the two girl's skill levels are no where near junior c play.....thats where I feel bad saying they dont belong.

Every time they step out onto the ice, I feel that either one of them could really injure themselves due to their inexperience, and lack of skill (head down). If their skill level is no where remotely close to that of the league/team then they have no business out there.

Do girls not play contact normally? I swear they don't because they all always seem to have their head down. I played against a few girls this summer, and man they just had the head down all the way. Luckily it was a no-contact 3 on 3 league...but still. And these girls were supposed to be from the second highest level too.

[nickyb13 9]

I think body checking is a penalty in women's hockey so if that is true then it could explain their heads being down. To add my experiences, I have only played against girls on a couple occasions in travel roller hockey. Before the game we knew that it was a girl goalie, or one of the forwards was a girl, but during the game all I cared about was the fact that they had a different jersey on than me, granted roller hockey doesn't check, but games could still get rough and I never eased up, and as far as I could tell in watching other games, others didn't either. Chalk me up in the "let them play if they can handle it" column.

[markstmartin89 0]

All i'm adding to this thread is yes girls should be able to play with boys cause i had a girl play with my midget major boys team and she ended up going playing d1 because of it

[ChiefHockey13 0]

It's kind of funny how a lot of you talk about how you were hesitant to hit a girl... I played boys up until last year (Bantam) and most of time they'd try to hit me harder. Given I threw my fair share of hits and I had control of the puck a lot, but I definitely got hit more than the boys on my team. It didn't bother me unless they were hitting really late or from behind, which happened quite a bit.

Playing boys not only lets you play with better competition (its much easier to progress when you play with/against people of similar or better skill level), but it teaches you how to skate with your head up and how to deal with contact. Despite checking being a penalty, it often goes uncalled especially at the higher levels of girls hockey and there's a fair amount of rubbing out and body contact, so you have a huge advantage if you played with boys. Honestly in areas where hockey isn't as big, if you watch a girls game you can TOTALLY tell who's played with boys and who hasn't. They tend to be more aggressive, better skaters, stronger on the puck and think quicker/evacuate plays faster. Of course, this isn't to say that there aren't any girls that have just played with girls there whole life or peewee on up that aren't good, but its definitely worth it.

I find it interesting how a lot of people go off Atis' opinion that she's the worst player on the team. She definitely isn't a star, but there is no evidence that she is actually subpar for the level of play. My guess is that she is probably an average player on the team and when you're a girl that's like being the worst. To be considered "average" by most of the parents she'd need to be one of the top 2/3 scorers. Atis is an idiot for singling out any 12 year old like that, but she did choose to leave the team and though I never got any crap to this extent, if you're gonna play with boys you gotta be able to take what parents say with a grain of salt. There's gonna be some who recognize your talents despite your gender and there will be those who think your taking their NHL prospect son's playing time.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

I currently have two girls playing for my JV team. They can keep up with the play. They're also two of the smartest players on my team.

What I've seen as a coach, is that teenage boys will go out of their way to make excessive runs or hits on them. One resulting in a concussion while we were down 7-3 or so and there were a few minutes left in the game and ended her season. She returned this season. And a few weeks ago that resulted in a bloody nose for the other girl. I've had coaches on opposite teams come to me before games and tell me they have a girl on their team and they'd appreciate it if my guys didn't hit them excessively. Play the body, hockey's a contact sport, but nothing excessive. I usually state we have two girls, so I understand what they're saying. Both play travel girls' hockey. I give them all the credit in the world, they get right back up and keep going.

I grew up playing with a few girls who went on to play D1 women's hockey. In mens' league, I've also played against women who played in college and they're really solid players. There's also no checking in mens' league, so the physicality of the game doesn't present itself as much as it would in high school co-ed. I'm completely fine and actually like that girls are getting in there and mixing it up with boys. Good for them, more power to them if they can handle it.

[iceNsteel 0]

The issue, for me, has nothing to do with level of play or whether girls can compete. Prior to puberty there really isn't much size, strength, or speed difference between girls and boys. After puberty, let's put it this way: Aleksandr Lebedev of Russia came in dead last in the men's 1000 meter speed skating race. If he were allowed to compete in the women's division he would have had a gold medal by nearly four seconds. So sorry, it isn't as if we started having co-ed leagues the NHL would magically become all female or something.

What it really comes down to is this: when girls play with boys they steal a chance from a boy to compete. Yet, we would never even consider the idea of allowing boys to take spots on girls' teams for the exact same reason. In short, girls should be allowed to take away from a boy when it suits them, but also have a girls only team to play on as well. So no matter what, they get what they want and boys suffer for it. It's rather like how we pay constant attention to how girls lag behind boys a little in math, but ignore that in all other areas of education boys are radically falling behind girls. No one seems to much notice that the female to male ratio in American colleges is 60/40 now, and continuing to grow in women's favor. Too worried about programs like Title IX that punish male athletes in less popular sports.

Girls should have opportunities to take part in sports, and they do. In fact, the idea that the best female athletes should go play with men actually is harmful to women's sporting opportunities. It denies other athletes a chance to compete against that level of talent. Lacking that talent makes it harder to get better coaching, and for women's athletics to be taken more seriously.

[danno25nh 3]

Really? People are going to worry about skill levels in squirts? Kids have no situational awareness at this level. If your child is good enough that he'll be in the NHL, one girl on the team is not going to change that.

As far as this girl on a peewee team. Girls are more physically developed at that age then boys as a general rule. That shouldn't be an issue.

Boys at that age don't really worry so much about checking a girl so again not much of an issue. I still have a nice scar from my first hockey stitches from a girl that got me with a puck just above the eye back in my bantam days. We didn't wear face protection then and helmets were a new thing for us. She used to check the hell out of me being 20 lbs heavier back then.

My high school team played a D1 girls team the same year we won a state championship. The girls came out hitting hard 1st period and all our laughing about not hitting them disappeared pretty quick. Looking back I expect that was our coach's way of teaching us humility as we had just beaten a team 28-0.

The parent that wrote this is simply an ass and likely living vicariously through his child. As boys grow and surpass girls in size, speed and strength the girls will move over to all girls leagues or those few that can hang will do so. We should allow them to play with the boys as long as they remain competitive. That should be up to the coach not some sniveling parent that's worried about Johnnies ice time. If a girl is taking his shifts than face it. You're kid is not the next Gretzky

[IniNew 53]

Girls playing in boy's leagues is the exception not the rule. Of course there aren't many boys playing in girls leagues.. why? Boys are physically more capable in sports for the most part. The few girls that have a more masculine physique usually end up playing with the boys because thats the level that best suits them.

And don't even get me started on the social stigmas preventing boys from playing in traditionally all female leagues. My head would explode.

[Bmplam 1]

My daughter plays peewee travel on the local boys team. She is very respected in the organization. As a first year peewee player, I was a bit concerned about the physical play, but she is among the bigger kids on her team (not fat, but tall and lean) so she handles the checking very well. Not a big hitter, but always digs in the corners and plays tough along the boards. She plays much better now as she has to play with her head up. Decisions on the ice are made much quicker as she knows she will be hit, unlike squirts last year. She also plays as an out of district player on the St. Louis Lady Blues AAA team.

If we were in an area where she could choose between boys and girls, i am not sure where she would play. She likes the boys game better, but bonds very well wiith the girls and likes the all girl locker room (locker room issues are and never have been a problem on the boys teams).

In short, she is playing on the local boys team because she attended tryouts and as among the better players there, and it is the only option locally.

The parents have always been great about her playing with their kids.

Not all girls have local boys / girls team options, but as long as they are on a team based on their skill, then it seems to be a no brainer to me.

[iceNsteel 0]

Girls playing in boy's leagues is the exception not the rule. Of course there aren't many boys playing in girls leagues.. why? Boys are physically more capable in sports for the most part. The few girls that have a more masculine physique usually end up playing with the boys because thats the level that best suits them.

And don't even get me started on the social stigmas preventing boys from playing in traditionally all female leagues. My head would explode.

Of course any boy wanting to play on a girls team would be stigmatized, and that's why you really aren't going to see it. Nor am I suggesting that the solution here to to let every bench warmer on a boys team flood girls out of sports by taking their spots on girls teams. The one exception I can think of happened when I was in high school. There is no boys volleyball here, or at least there wasn't in the late 90's to early 00's. A transfer student from California, whom I understood to be a pretty good beach volleyball player, wanted to play on the girls team. Women's groups when ape shit over the whole thing, yet their argument as to why girls should play on the boys football team was there was no girls football.

But you hit the nail on the head as to how society looks at these issues: if it suits a girl then she gets what she wants. The boy that should be on the team and isn't, well he can just go f*&% himself. Girls teams should exist, and girls should play on those teams. Boys should play on boys teams. Not only does it solve basic issues of opportunity, but all the other problems that come up with co-ed sports. Whether it's when girls are in danger from contact with boys that are much larger and stronger to the locker room thing.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

I don't think many boys would benefit from playing girls' hockey. I'd assume (and correct me if I'm wrong) that boys' hockey, once puberty/checking kick in, becomes more physical and aggressive, possibly even faster. There'd be no appeal and nothing to gain from joining a girls' team. On the other hand, if a girl can up her game and use that to her advantage in girls' hockey to hit a higher level (d1 or something,) why not? If she's earned a spot on a boys' team, she's earned it. If it takes a boys' spot, he got to work on his game personally and try again.

I think the wider the player base for hockey, the better for the sport overall. On JV, I run equal ice time no matter who or what the skill level is. Varsity is where the roster and ice time is limited based on skill. And if you want to get in to the financial aspect, the more players, the lower the cost per person.

Here in NJ, I'm pretty positive that boys can join girls' volleyball teams, but they can't play in the front row. Mildly off-topic, but they do make exceptions for guys on girls teams here or there.

[rachael7 1]

Seems to me that what's being overlooked in this discussion is that women have been historically discriminated against in sports (and everywhere else) for so long that they are at an automatic disadvantage compared to men. All of these so-called 'obvious differences in skill and size' that are simply assumed are actually largely the result of lacking the history, culture, and expectation of participation. And THAT is why we need all female teams, not because females are inherently less able. Yeah, its not "fair" to some boys. Wah, wah, cry me a river. If your spot on the mens team or your boy's spot on the peewee team got taken by someone better than you/him, boy or girl, then hockey up and start practicing.

[Race4LastPlace 31]

He's a recent article. It's field hockey, but nearly the opposite situation. A male player player on a female high school team:

Male on Girl's HS Field Hockey team

[Axxion89 32]

Good read, I'm all for having girls play on boys teams but only so long as there are no girls teams within a reasonable distance of travel. But if you are a proponent of Girls on Boys teams then, IMHO, you have no reason to say that a boy cannot be on a girls team (like Volleyball, Field Hockey) as it is immoral and wrong to have a double standard.

[iceNsteel 0]

Seems to me that what's being overlooked in this discussion is that women have been historically discriminated against in sports (and everywhere else) for so long that they are at an automatic disadvantage compared to men. All of these so-called 'obvious differences in skill and size' that are simply assumed are actually largely the result of lacking the history, culture, and expectation of participation. And THAT is why we need all female teams, not because females are inherently less able. Yeah, its not "fair" to some boys. Wah, wah, cry me a river. If your spot on the mens team or your boy's spot on the peewee team got taken by someone better than you/him, boy or girl, then hockey up and start practicing.

I don't believe I've never ran across a more face palm worthy post. It's really very simple, very basic, biology. Men have testosterone in large quantities, women do not. This is why after decades of women having the same opportunities to play, the same advanced training equipment and methodology, there's still no level in the playing field. Let's look at some more speed staking results from Vancouver this year:

Men's 5000m race dead last finish time: 6:43.83 as compared to the women's gold medal winning time of 6:50.91.

Men's 1500m dead last finish time: 1:52.67 as compared to the women's gold medal time of 1:56.89

Men's 500m dead last: 36.642 as compared to the women's gold medal winning time of 37.85

Men are simply, on average, larger, stronger, and faster. Of course, there is a trade off involved in this. The same testosterone that provides these increased abilities is significantly involved in the causes of men's shorter life spans.

The man up crap doesn't really interest me. I'm not going to be intimidated into ignoring basic issues of equality and fairness because someone might question my manhood. It always seems to come down to women want limitless choices, without regard to how many males suffer for it. Not to mention how many times these girls might be selected for a team, not because of their skill, but because the hockey association fears lawsuits if they don't make the team they're trying out for.

Separation of women's and men's sports exists to ensure that people of both genders have a chance to compete. Allowing women to take that opportunity from males when it suits them, while retaining women's only teams if they can't compete, is a fundamental violation of gender equality.

Even when begged and bribed women simply demonstrate far less interest in sports. We're decades beyond Sally is a dyke because she want's to play basketball.

[JoeyJ0506 192]

We're decades beyond Sally is a dyke because she want's to play basketball.

Dude... No...

[Hradsky 1]

Dude... No...

How? There are more males who play sports than females...

[Drewhunz 3]

I'm gonna go and get some popcorn now.

[noodle3872 40]

Make it a big bag of popcorn!

[ktang 34]

At the Pee-Wee ages (10-12) some girls have an advantage in size and speed / strength (earlier puberty than boys).

Also, in Canada, girls' hockey is contact but non-body checking, so if a girl wants to experience contact hockey, Pee-Wee is probably the best level (in most of Canada Pee-Wee is the first age group that allows body checking). As others have noted above, body checking hockey is better for developing awareness, skating and stickhandling with the head up, etc.

So, for the girls who can make the cuts for body checking teams, they should be allowed to take their places.

From what I see, at the Bantam ages (13-14), the boys' acceleration takes off, so the girls' advantages melt away.

Also from what I see, the girls' teams' (non-body checking) coaching and players' skill levels are still well below body checking teams, so if certain girls can make the cuts for body checking teams and can take the flak I think that their best development would be on body checking teams.

[rachael7 1]

I don't believe I've never ran across a more face palm worthy post. It's really very simple, very basic, biology. Men have testosterone in large quantities, women do not. This is why after decades of women having the same opportunities to play, the same advanced training equipment and methodology, there's still no level in the playing field. Let's look at some more speed staking results from Vancouver this year:

Men's 5000m race dead last finish time: 6:43.83 as compared to the women's gold medal winning time of 6:50.91.

Men's 1500m dead last finish time: 1:52.67 as compared to the women's gold medal time of 1:56.89

Men's 500m dead last: 36.642 as compared to the women's gold medal winning time of 37.85

Men are simply, on average, larger, stronger, and faster. Of course, there is a trade off involved in this. The same testosterone that provides these increased abilities is significantly involved in the causes of men's shorter life spans.

The man up crap doesn't really interest me. I'm not going to be intimidated into ignoring basic issues of equality and fairness because someone might question my manhood. It always seems to come down to women want limitless choices, without regard to how many males suffer for it. Not to mention how many times these girls might be selected for a team, not because of their skill, but because the hockey association fears lawsuits if they don't make the team they're trying out for.

Separation of women's and men's sports exists to ensure that people of both genders have a chance to compete. Allowing women to take that opportunity from males when it suits them, while retaining women's only teams if they can't compete, is a fundamental violation of gender equality.

Even when begged and bribed women simply demonstrate far less interest in sports. We're decades beyond Sally is a dyke because she want's to play basketball.

I guess since hardly any dark-skinned people play hockey, that means they must be naturally inferior too, right?

[Hradsky 1]

I guess since hardly any dark-skinned people play hockey, that means they must be naturally inferior too, right?

Do you actually think that females are physically equal to males?