2011 Warrior Holiday Catalogue

[vtaenz 0]

Do you know when the new patterns for the sticks will be uploaded to the pattern database? I'm interested to see where some of the new ones compare to patterns I'm used to.

[innotastic 12]

Do you know when the new patterns for the sticks will be uploaded to the pattern database? I'm interested to see where some of the new ones compare to patterns I'm used to.

the kremlin curve is a clone of the ovi pro curve, and the w88 zetterberg is a clone of the p88. you should be able to look up those curves int he pattern db

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

Do you know when the new patterns for the sticks will be uploaded to the pattern database? I'm interested to see where some of the new ones compare to patterns I'm used to.

Once we see and measure them, we will add patterns to the DB.

[ScruffyTheJanitor 1]

Very impressed with what I see of the Dynasty and am definitely looking forward to trying one out. Although, it is a shame the Vanek will no longer be available at retail. I just started using a Dolomite blade in that pattern and fear I have already grown too attached...

[althoma1 575]

Is the hosel length on the new Dynasty tapered blades the same as the Dolomite tapered blades? I would think they would be, but wanted to double check before cutting a shaft I just picked up. I'll be using it with a Dolomite Smyth blade I have, but will probably eventually grab a Dynasty Gionta blade. If the hosel length is the same then that's good news.

[HattrickSwayze 3]

Regarding the Dynasty shaft being an extra 3" longer... Will it be like the Widow in that cutting the shaft down, the flex won't be affected in the first 3"? I'd probly have to cut mine about 4", so I don't want the 75 flex ended up about a 100.

[ponder 0]

Pretty sure that the flex is rated at 60" anyways, not at 63". If you leave it at 63" it would play whippier, a 75 flex Widow is only a 75 flex if you cut it down to 60". I don't really buy this "cut it and don't change the flex" marketing gimmick, a longer shaft is easier to bend period, regardless of what they do with the stiffness up by the top hand. I'm sure they can make it so cutting the stick affects the flex LESS, but it'll still affect it. A hockey stick works sort of (not exactly) like a lever, with the flex point being sort of like the fulcrum, and a longer lever/stick allows you to apply more force. I even saw a picture from Warrior awhile back explaining what this "cut without changing the flex" gimmick was, and it was simply that they measured the flex from the 60" point instead of from the 63" point, not that there was anything magic about the stick that allowed it to flex the same way regardless of the length.

[innotastic 12]

correct me if i'm wrong, but the only difference between the old dolomite shaft and the new dynasty shaft is the paint and extra 3"?

[ScruffyTheJanitor 1]

correct me if i'm wrong, but the only difference between the old dolomite shaft and the new dynasty shaft is the paint and extra 3"?

If you read about the Dynasty in the catalog, you'll see that's not the case at all.

[halfmoonyote 0]

correct me if i'm wrong, but the only difference between the old dolomite shaft and the new dynasty shaft is the paint and extra 3"?

Nope, that is wrong information. JR gave us the concept of the Dynasty in the very first post in this thread:

The Dynasty's main feature is Axy Sym, which is a hand-specific shaft technology. The back end of the shaft as well as the blade is considerably stiffer, so when the shaft flexes, the stick recoils harder, very similar to the old Innovative Novius (shaft-only), albeit with updated materials. The Dynasty still maintains the low kickpoint that the Dolomite had.

Aside from sharing a low kickpoint, it's entirely different stick than the Dolomite.

[kerr 1]

Wow, both of you guys are wrong. He is asking about the shaft not the stick. Which I think is an longer dolomite since there is no left-handed or right-handed shaft offered.

[innotastic 12]

I was referring to the shaft, as in the two piece set up. Thanks for the effort anyways.

If you read about the Dynasty in the catalog, you'll see that's not the case at all.

Nope, that is wrong information. JR gave us the concept of the Dynasty in the very first post in this thread:

The Dynasty's main feature is Axy Sym, which is a hand-specific shaft technology. The back end of the shaft as well as the blade is considerably stiffer, so when the shaft flexes, the stick recoils harder, very similar to the old Innovative Novius (shaft-only), albeit with updated materials. The Dynasty still maintains the low kickpoint that the Dolomite had.

Aside from sharing a low kickpoint, it's entirely different stick than the Dolomite.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

The shafts would be like the Dolo - no Axy Sym in the 2pc setup.

[goaliemanshark 6]

Hm. I thought it would be cool to have a axy sym 2 piece. Would just need to put a right handed up or left handed up graphic on the shaft.

[ScruffyTheJanitor 1]

I was referring to the shaft, as in the two piece set up. Thanks for the effort anyways.

My apologies, innotastic. I thought you were referring to the shaft of the Dynasty stick, not the standalone shaft.

[Miseaujeu 291]

Hm. I thought it would be cool to have a axy sym 2 piece. Would just need to put a right handed up or left handed up graphic on the shaft.

It's in the blade

Hm. I thought it would be cool to have a axy sym 2 piece. Would just need to put a right handed up or left handed up graphic on the shaft.

sku nightmare for the dealers and Warrior

Pretty sure that the flex is rated at 60" anyways, not at 63". If you leave it at 63" it would play whippier, a 75 flex Widow is only a 75 flex if you cut it down to 60". I don't really buy this "cut it and don't change the flex" marketing gimmick, a longer shaft is easier to bend period, regardless of what they do with the stiffness up by the top hand. I'm sure they can make it so cutting the stick affects the flex LESS, but it'll still affect it. A hockey stick works sort of (not exactly) like a lever, with the flex point being sort of like the fulcrum, and a longer lever/stick allows you to apply more force. I even saw a picture from Warrior awhile back explaining what this "cut without changing the flex" gimmick was, and it was simply that they measured the flex from the 60" point instead of from the 63" point, not that there was anything magic about the stick that allowed it to flex the same way regardless of the length.

Let's clear this up since I don't want to be accused of marketing gimmickry. We never said it was "magic" just explained where we measure flex and if it's measured there consistently on a 3-point bend, cutting outside of this measurement doesn't affect the flex. If the stick was cut and IF IT WAS PUT BACK ON SAID MACHINE, you would get the same rating. But that's not to say a player will "feel" that the stick is stiffer. It's a classic case of "feel" vs. science. Can't rate feel.

[ponder 0]

Pretty sure that the flex is rated at 60" anyways, not at 63". If you leave it at 63" it would play whippier, a 75 flex Widow is only a 75 flex if you cut it down to 60". I don't really buy this "cut it and don't change the flex" marketing gimmick, a longer shaft is easier to bend period, regardless of what they do with the stiffness up by the top hand. I'm sure they can make it so cutting the stick affects the flex LESS, but it'll still affect it. A hockey stick works sort of (not exactly) like a lever, with the flex point being sort of like the fulcrum, and a longer lever/stick allows you to apply more force. I even saw a picture from Warrior awhile back explaining what this "cut without changing the flex" gimmick was, and it was simply that they measured the flex from the 60" point instead of from the 63" point, not that there was anything magic about the stick that allowed it to flex the same way regardless of the length.

Let's clear this up since I don't want to be accused of marketing gimmickry. We never said it was "magic" just explained where we measure flex and if it's measured there consistently on a 3-point bend, cutting outside of this measurement doesn't affect the flex. If the stick was cut and IF IT WAS PUT BACK ON SAID MACHINE, you would get the same rating. But that's not to say a player will "feel" that the stick is stiffer. It's a classic case of "feel" vs. science. Can't rate feel.

Sorry to push the point, don't mean to come off overly harsh/critical, just trying to understand it completely. Do I have this right?

1) If you buy an 85 flex, 63" Widow, it's been rated at 85 flex based with 3" sticking out the end of the flex testing machine, while most (60") sticks are tested with no extra handle sticking out. For example, this would be how a normal stick would be tested:

And you guys basically did the same, but with the extra 3" of shaft length hanging out the end. Thus an 85 flex Widow is indeed rated at an 85 flex based on it being used at 60", not at 63"?

2) If you were to use the stick at its full 63", it would play whippier, because like all sticks, it's easier to flex when longer and hard to flex when shorter?

3) If you could actually set this machine up for a 63" stick (basically moving the 3 points all slightly further away from each other, so that the pressure is coming down on the same spot near the blade, but now the "handle" point is all the way at the end of the stick) then a 63", 85 flex Widow would test as being whippier than an 85 flex?

4) If all of this is true then there would not be anything special about the Widow and how the flex changes with respect to cutting, it's just that it was tested as if it were cut down to 60", not at 63", so if you use the flex at 60" the flex will be as marked (but if you use it at 63" it will play whippier, or if you use it at 57" it will play stiffer).

[Miseaujeu 291]

Hope this helps explain it. Our bend and measurement thereof is different from the diagram you posted.

our three point bend is like this.

http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

[ponder 0]

Hope this helps explain it. Our bend and measurement thereof is different from the diagram you posted.

our three point bend is like this.

http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

Thanks for the pic, definitely makes it clear. It does seem to me, though, that any stick would perform the same way, with the measured flex not changing regardless of how much extra stick there is sticking out on the left (so cutting the stick wouldn't affect how this machine measures its flex), but that the Widow, like any other stick, would play stiffer once cut because cutting it down affects where your hands are on the shaft.

[boldfacecole 0]

Really excited for the Dynasty and Mojo! Will the Dynasty be available in the stick customizer?

[WackedWing 0]

goaliemanshark, on 11 September 2011 - 10:42 PM, said:

Hm. I thought it would be cool to have a axy sym 2 piece. Would just need to put a right handed up or left handed up graphic on the shaft.

sku nightmare for the dealers and Warrior

Absolutely. I purchased a MISPAINTED Innovative Novius shaft back in the day... had to contact Inno's home office; they told me to read the stamp on the inside of the stick and we realized it was a Novius that was L-spined and R-painted. Took over a month to get the replacement since the entire batch was wrong. So I can totally see Warrior's point in not including AxSym in their Dynasty shaft.

However, considering AxSym is THE signature technology for Dynasty sticks that sets it apart from the rest of the Warrior line, the decision to NOT include it in a shaft called "Dynasty" is a little misleading. You have to read the specs of the shaft (the "fine print"?) to realize that AxSym is not on the Dynasty shaft.

Bottom line: If Innovative can make a full-featured Novius shaft, then Warrior can make a full-featured Dynasty shaft, logistics notwithstanding. In my opinion, anything less shouldn't be called "Dynasty".

[ponder 0]

goaliemanshark, on 11 September 2011 - 10:42 PM, said:

Hm. I thought it would be cool to have a axy sym 2 piece. Would just need to put a right handed up or left handed up graphic on the shaft.

Absolutely. I purchased a MISPAINTED Innovative Novius shaft back in the day... had to contact Inno's home office; they told me to read the stamp on the inside of the stick and we realized it was a Novius that was L-spined and R-painted. Took over a month to get the replacement since the entire batch was wrong. So I can totally see Warrior's point in not including AxSym in their Dynasty shaft.

However, considering AxSym is THE signature technology for Dynasty sticks that sets it apart from the rest of the Warrior line, the decision to NOT include it in a shaft called "Dynasty" is a little misleading. You have to read the specs of the shaft (the "fine print"?) to realize that AxSym is not on the Dynasty shaft.

Bottom line: If Innovative can make a full-featured Novius shaft, then Warrior can make a full-featured Dynasty shaft, logistics notwithstanding. In my opinion, anything less shouldn't be called "Dynasty".

Easton's S19 shaft doesn't have the elliptical taper, which is the #1 feature of the OPS S19. Bauer's upcoming Apx blade won't have the new dual density core, despite the new blade being the #1 feature on the OPS Apx. It's very common for shaft/blade combos to be a little behind the OPS in terms of technology in the stick, and from Miseaujeu's above post it sounds like they've put axy sym in the blade regardless.

[WackedWing 0]

Easton's S19 shaft doesn't have the elliptical taper, which is the #1 feature of the OPS S19. Bauer's upcoming Apx blade won't have the new dual density core, despite the new blade being the #1 feature on the OPS Apx. It's very common for shaft/blade combos to be a little behind the OPS in terms of technology in the stick, and from Miseaujeu's above post it sounds like they've put axy sym in the blade regardless.

And that's really a shame that "everyone does it".

I feel that if it's manufacturing/technically possible (as it is in the "Apx" blade and "Dynasty" shaft), it should be done to avoid misleading the customer.

By the way, Ponder, I dig the Gilmour avatar. Met Killer in Calgary.

[Burning Bear 76]

This took me a while to notice (I'm a little slow) but will different lies on the tapered replacement blades getting the axe as well?

[Dangles83 24]

I know, but still dont feel I should have to pay an upcharge let alone wait a turnaround time for this curve. Just pissed because this was the only retail version of this pattern, let alone the ONLY pattern I use.

100% agree! It is a fantastic pattern and seems to be popular amongst the pros; I own many pro stock twigs sporting this same pattern. It's a shame to have to spend an extra $45 just for a pattern, as if sticks aren't expensive enough as it is.