Boston Bruins: 2011-2012

[wrangler 157]

It'll be interesting to see if teams choose to retaliate, when Shanahan gives his analysis on video, and they just happen to disagree with him. He's working hard at explaining everything, and improving the application of discipline, but the process won't be worth much if people undermine it.

[psh 25]

Regardless of what Shanahan did with Lucic, Buffalo still should feel like they've got a pound of flesh to extract from Lucic. Their star goalie got run over and they didn't respond. If someone doesn't square up with Lucic then the Sabres will be looked upon as the doormat of the league. Thomas isn't a target. That isn't how the league works. Retribution doesn't work that way. After Moore laid out Naslund the Canucks didn't take down Hejduk, they went after Moore. That is the way it goes, you go after the guy that did it.

Right, I acknowledge that is the way it generally goes in the NHL, but I am arguing that it is the way of losers. Who won the battle you invoke? The Nucks lost a presumptive Richard Trophy winner and the Avs lost a guy who had a very loose hold on a roster spot. Avs overwhelmingly won that fight. The way it goes if you want real eye for an eye retribution is that the Nucks should have targeted Sakic--a target of equal value. Again, I don't think that is right from a moral perspective, but if you want to win the battle, that's the way I think one ought to go if you don't believe that the league is going to protect your assets. Indeed, Thomas thinks the same way and thought the hit put him at risk:

But the traditional way of handling these matters was, 'If you run my goalie, I’ll run yours,' not to go after the guy doing the running. In fact, Thomas expected as much. “Basically, from my perspective, after that happened, [i was] just trying to make sure I was on my toes,” he said after the game (quoted by DJ Bean of WEEI). “I didn’t know if there would be kind of a retribution hit. That’s kind of the old school way.” http://nhl-red-light.si.com/2011/11/14/lucic-disciplinary-decison-may-prove-pivotal/

Anyway, we're talking past each other because we just think about these things differently. At the end of the day, I just hope Miller is back and hasn't lost anything and that Thomas doesn't pay the price. Those two are treasures to the league and to American hockey. If Lucic does end up taking a cheap shot and is injured commensurately, it would be fair in the grand scheme of things and might provide great emotional satisfaction, but I don't think it would really accomplish anything. The Sabres would still be on the losing side of that ledger by a long shot.

It'll be interesting to see if teams choose to retaliate, when Shanahan gives his analysis on video, and they just happen to disagree with him. He's working hard at explaining everything, and improving the application of discipline, but the process won't be worth much if people undermine it.

I think the GMs saw this last ruling as inevitably leading toward retaliation and it sounds like they will try, whether directly or indirectly, to nip that in the bud. Reading between the lines of this, I wonder if they have already talked to him about the rules and the necessity to protect goaltenders. http://nhl-red-light...?sct=nhl_t11_a1

[chippa13 1844]

If Lucic ends up taking a cheapshot and winds up with a concussion or the like then you'll see a Sabre suspended, Ruff suspended or fined, and the Sabres fined. The only "retribution" the Sabres have available is to have folks lining up to square off with Lucic. This whole thing you keep spinning about "winners" and "losers" is just so much hot air. If Gaustad had taken the 2-5-10 for grabbing Lucic right after the collision then I guarantee that Ruff wouldn't have been thinking, "geez, we sure lost out on that one." Instead, it would have been, "That's right, boys. That is how you stand up for your goalie."

[psh 25]

If Lucic ends up taking a cheapshot and winds up with a concussion or the like then you'll see a Sabre suspended, Ruff suspended or fined, and the Sabres fined. The only "retribution" the Sabres have available is to have folks lining up to square off with Lucic. This whole thing you keep spinning about "winners" and "losers" is just so much hot air. If Gaustad had taken the 2-5-10 for grabbing Lucic right after the collision then I guarantee that Ruff wouldn't have been thinking, "geez, we sure lost out on that one." Instead, it would have been, "That's right, boys. That is how you stand up for your goalie."

Right, and that is why I'm saying going after Lucic wouldn't accomplish anything.

You omitted the key element of Ruff's hypothetical comment after Gaustad squares off with Lucic: "That's right, boys. That is how you stand up for your goalie who is now out indefinitely." A rival team has just robbed your team of its principal asset. In an objective sense, the only way you can respond meaningfully in the absence of league intervention is to respond in kind. Thomas and the GMs seem to agree with me on that point. And that is everyone's fear.

I suggest that your concept of retribution--squaring off with Lucic--is the one that consists fo hot air. It may be traditional in the league, but from a competitive analysis, it is worse than doing nothing at all. It is reaching for your shovel and digging your own grave. Can you honestly say that, even in the example you invoked, trading Steve Moore for Markus Naslund was effective retribution or a fair trade or positive from a competitive perspective? I can't imagine anyone who would make that trade. If that is the way to respond to someone running your goalie or top scorer, a ruthless, thinking, coach is going to pick off your roster top to bottom. And that is what I fear and that is what the GMs seem to fear. If you don't enforce rules and impose supplemental discipline following eggregious and dangerous offenses, you're inviting mayhem and a battle of attrition. In that environment, if you think squaring off with a goon when a Naslund or a Miller is knocked out of a game is viable solution, your team will be decimated. You may be celebrated by traditionalists, but you're inviting a trade that any calculating coach will welcome and exploit to the fullest.

That's my piece. I'm going to let this go because I don't think we're moving the needle on this issue and I don't want to obscure the fact that there is a lot to be very pleased about in the league right now.

[Steve_v3 275]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380675

NO CHARGES AGAINST BRUINS D CHARA FOR PACIORETTY HIT

I hope we can finally put this to bed.

[chippa13 1844]

Right, and that is why I'm saying going after Lucic wouldn't accomplish anything.

You omitted the key element of Ruff's hypothetical comment after Gaustad squares off with Lucic: "That's right, boys. That is how you stand up for your goalie who is now out indefinitely." A rival team has just robbed your team of its principal asset. In an objective sense, the only way you can respond meaningfully in the absence of league intervention is to respond in kind. Thomas and the GMs seem to agree with me on that point. And that is everyone's fear.

I suggest that your concept of retribution--squaring off with Lucic--is the one that consists fo hot air. It may be traditional in the league, but from a competitive analysis, it is worse than doing nothing at all. It is reaching for your shovel and digging your own grave. Can you honestly say that, even in the example you invoked, trading Steve Moore for Markus Naslund was effective retribution or a fair trade or positive from a competitive perspective? I can't imagine anyone who would make that trade. If that is the way to respond to someone running your goalie or top scorer, a ruthless, thinking, coach is going to pick off your roster top to bottom. And that is what I fear and that is what the GMs seem to fear. If you don't enforce rules and impose supplemental discipline following eggregious and dangerous offenses, you're inviting mayhem and a battle of attrition. In that environment, if you think squaring off with a goon when a Naslund or a Miller is knocked out of a game is viable solution, your team will be decimated. You may be celebrated by traditionalists, but you're inviting a trade that any calculating coach will welcome and exploit to the fullest.

That's my piece. I'm going to let this go because I don't think we're moving the needle on this issue and I don't want to obscure the fact that there is a lot to be very pleased about in the league right now.

I'd love to know when the f*** anyone in the hockey world ever considered the "trade-off" of getting back at a player who wronged them. I guarantee the Canucks didn't say, "gosh, it is a horrible trade losing Naslund and only getting Moore", no, they said, "Moore knocked out our guy, let's get him." That, my friend, is the rational response. The irrational response is to say, "Moore knocked out our guy, let's get Nikolishin."

[chippa13 1844]

I figured they were due for a down game after the run that the B's have been on. Since they still snuck away with the victory I'm predicting a real stinker against the Isles tomorrow night.

[Jason Harris 31]

I still think they're not as tight defensively as they were last season -- more cough ups in the zone -- but I'm not so sure it was a down game for the B's as much as it was a very up game by a desperate team. Consequently, I have the opposite view and am expecting a better game agains the Isles. In fact, I'm throwing a Sabres loss in there also, just so we can say that eight games later the B's went from last to third in the Eastern Conference.

[chippa13 1844]

Well, the boys sure put a nice hurting on the Isles. I'm glad they came out with a strong effort after the iffy win against Columbus. In the last couple of years, that is when we would have seen them get pasted. Let's see what they've got for the Habs tonight.

[hamstercaster 2]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380675

NO CHARGES AGAINST BRUINS D CHARA FOR PACIORETTY HIT

I hope we can finally put this to bed.

As much a Habs fan as I am, I still believe there was no reason for the cops to get involved and I'm also happy that this is now a thing of the "past" and hope that everybody can move on. I'm pretty sure Pacioretty and Chara have moved on already.

[Steve_v3 275]

As much a Habs fan as I am, I still believe there was no reason for the cops to get involved and I'm also happy that this is now a thing of the "past" and hope that everybody can move on. I'm pretty sure Pacioretty and Chara have moved on already.

Totally agree. Pacioretty said he was over it before the season started. I think it's a small segment of fans who hold that grudge. I really wish fans would stop booing (insert player) whenever they touch the puck.

As for tonight I really hope they continue to play like they have lately. They seem to change the way they play when they face Montreal. If they do, I can live with it win or lose.

[Jason Harris 31]

I was glad the B's were able to sneak out of there with a win, because they just don't match up well with the Canadiens. NESN put up an interesting graphic that the Bruins lead the league in +/- differential for the 2nd and 3rd periods, which makes some sense because they are a team that is built to wear down opponents, but you can't wear down an opponent that you have a hard time hitting. The Habs are quick and elusive, and that style has been problematic to the B's over the last few seasons.

[Steve_v3 275]

I think it will be fairly quiet tonight. I don't see Buffalo trying to out hit or be really physical with the Bruins tonight. They aren't that kind of team. I could see them score a couple early goals and go on to beat the Bruins handily.

I hoping for another big win from the Bruins to keep this going though.

[chippa13 1844]

I think about all you will see tonight is McCormick offer up to Lucic and they have a little tete a tete. Then they'll get down to the business of playing hockey.

[Steve_v3 275]

WOW. I guess the refs didn't want to hear Ruff cry tonight. In the first they are giving the Sabers plenty of time on the PP.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

Nice to see lucic and chara manhandle gaustad and regehr the other night.

Someone really should smoke holmstrom too

[Jason Harris 31]

The B's may have outplayed the Wings today, but I said to the family at the end of regulation, "They better win in OT, because there's no way they're going to win the shootout." Howard seemed to be more solid than Rask, while the Wings have more creative scorers; add it up, and I knew Detroit would win if they got by OT.

[Gr8erade 1]

I was at the game yesterday and thought it was pretty well played and the crowd was definitely into the game. Big difference between this year's black friday game and the past two. Those were horribly boring games. But this year, both teams played pretty hard. And wow, are shoot outs anticlimactic, or what?

[Steve_v3 275]

The B's may have outplayed the Wings today, but I said to the family at the end of regulation, "They better win in OT, because there's no way they're going to win the shootout." Howard seemed to be more solid than Rask, while the Wings have more creative scorers; add it up, and I knew Detroit would win if they got by OT.

That is the downside of Thomas playing so well. Whenever Rask let's one in I keep thinking, "I bet Thomas would have had it."

The Bruins haven't been particularly good at shootouts since the league went to them.

I thought they looked sluggish early on yesterday. Bergeron's line didn't look great until the third period. Hopefully they take it out on the Jets tonight.

[Jason Harris 31]

You're right. I know I feel much more confident with Thomas in the goal, and it seems like the team plays more confidently when Thomas is back there. That's probably why the couple of articles I read all suggested that he'd be playing against the Wings, while Rask would play against the Jets. But after hearing Julien tell Pierre Maguiire "We have a plan and we're sticking to it," I came to the thought that Julien may have played Tuukka yesterday precisely to build everyone's confidence in him. If Julien plays him only against the bottom eight teams of the league, it essentially tells him the team doesn't have much faith in him.

So, while I admit I had less faith in him for the shootout, it was probably a smart move by the team to tag him for yesterday while giving Timmy another day's rest.

[chippa13 1844]

I have zero faith in either goaltender in the shootout, to be honest. I remember how horrible Thomas was in the early days of the shootout, you could pretty much change the channel as soon as overtime ended. Part of the problem, most of the B's like to shoot so the goalies don't get a lot of practice against danglers.

As for the goalie rotation, Thomas wasn't going to play both games this weekend so why not give Rask a confidence builder against the stronger team. Rask had a decent game and still got them a point and now you've got Thomas going against Winnipeg with an extra day of rest. Not a bad way to have a good chance at 3 of 4 points to be had.

[Law Goalie 147]

He probably should have had the Bertuzzi shootout goal (and knew it instantly) but the move Datsyuk put on him is pretty close to unstoppable if it's done properly.

Boston and Pittsburgh are really emerging as the East teams that can beat the best West teams at their own game, AND dominate physically.

Incidentally, I took this game as yet another reason I'd love to see Detroit go to the East. Maybe the best game I've seen this year in terms of pace, physicality, and skill.

[Jason Harris 31]

I still haven't seen Chara's goal.....

[trevor13478 1]

Krejci signed to a 3 year extension, guess that squashes any trade talks about him.

[chippa13 1844]

Or does it. The extension ups the return in a trade and the value to some potential suitors.