Boston Bruins: 2011-2012

[jds 20]

IF he hates the US government so much , do you think he might want to move back here and play for the Hamilton Bulldogs again?

[Jason Harris 31]

He should have gone. It would have been 90 minutes of his life and would have shown respect to the Presidency (even if he doesn't believe in the policies of the President), as well as to his teammates.

[Jason Harris 31]

while his intent may not have been to board the defenseman, he did everything he could to get behind him and deliver a check from behind. Boarding is a likely outcome from a hit like that.

As for the Flyers, hitting begets hitting. Like a number of other teams, they routinely finish hits high, hard and late. Coincidentally, the Bruins also have a number of players that do the same thing.

There's no doubt that every team has players that do the same thing. I've complained about Marchand playing like a punk since he's been called up, especially since it's become obvious that he doesn't need to -- he's a legitimate top six forward.. And Lucic likes to throw his weight around, which sometimes results in hits that cross the threshold. We could even throw Chara into that mix, although he has to have some qualifiers that just throwing a body check with his elbows in against certain players still can approach a high hit against some players, particularly if they duck.

But the thing that stood out to me in yesterday's game is three players making questionable hits in the same game. I don't recall any team doing something like that in long time. That's what led me to ask whether it's an organizational philosophy of the Flyers to test the limits on hits.

[goblue9280 33]

Why would that not be a valid reason? It was an optional team event, and Thomas obviously felt strongly that attending and glad handing the POTUS wasn't his cup of tea. Good on him for making a statement.

Because IMO, The White House visit, congratulatory call from the president, etc have never been about politics... but rather a symbolic statement by this country that great accomplishment is recognized and celebrated. Fergodsakes, he's only the 2nd American to win the Conn Smythe...

[Jason Harris 31]

Not sure why Prust didn't get the same as Ference. Clearly hit him in the numbers.

Chadd?

I forgot about that play. Other than Ference having more speed when he hit McDonagh, I think that Prust's hit was worse, since he appeared to push Chara toward the boards, wheres Ference appeared to push McDonagh away, but both player's momentum caused that "away" to turn into a push into the boards.

[wrangler 157]

He should have gone. It would have been 90 minutes of his life and would have shown respect to the Presidency (even if he doesn't believe in the policies of the President), as well as to his teammates.

I think he did fine following his conscience, rather than taking the easy way out.

Because IMO, The White House visit, congratulatory call from the president, etc have never been about politics... but rather a symbolic statement by this country that great accomplishment is recognized and celebrated. Fergodsakes, he's only the 2nd American to win the Conn Smythe...

And not a photo op for the president? I don't think you can take an event like this and boil it down to just one purpose or use.

[Jason Harris 31]

Considering Presidents do these sports related events at least four times a year, and actually more when collegiate champions are factored in, I think these events have become more of a requirement for a President than a photo op.

And I believe it's quite easy to separate following one's conscience with showing respect. You go, thank him for his hospitality, then follow your conscience by voting to get his ass (or other asses per his statement) out of there. It's not like he (or any other athlete) hasn't already done dozens of other events that he didn't really want to be at, yet still showed up at out of respect.

A perfect example of that occurred on the New Zealand trip. The promoters had scheduled a dinner at the home of the U.S. Consulate General. It was quite striking to see the kitchen area filled with business or government people, while the couches in the living room were crowded around by twenty young men who had been invited there solely because they were good at playing a game. I'm quite confident that if they were being paid to play on this team, they would have fulfilled their obligation of mingling, but since they weren't being paid, they expressed their conscience at this party by ignoring the guest who had also taken the time to drive there. The only people I saw talking with the guest were me, Kerry and maybe two of the players. It was actually embarrassing, especially when we heard later of some of the guys climbing in the trees out front or leaving their beer bottles on the front porch.

Again, I think that sometimes doing the right thing might appear to conflict with your conscience, yet it's still the right thing.

[Fury of One 6]

It's not his job to pump Obama's tires. : P

[goblue9280 33]

And not a photo op for the president? I don't think you can take an event like this and boil it down to just one purpose or use.

You're right... but everything a politican does has secondary purposes/uses. I still think the primary reason for the event is what I stated before.

I thought my dad had the best reaction when I was talking to him about it today... he stopped me in the middle and said "He's a goalie, what do you expect, they're a bit nutty?"

[wrangler 157]

Considering Presidents do these sports related events at least four times a year, and actually more when collegiate champions are factored in, I think these events have become more of a requirement for a President than a photo op.

And I believe it's quite easy to separate following one's conscience with showing respect. You go, thank him for his hospitality, then follow your conscience by voting to get his ass (or other asses per his statement) out of there. It's not like he (or any other athlete) hasn't already done dozens of other events that he didn't really want to be at, yet still showed up at out of respect.

A perfect example of that occurred on the New Zealand trip. The promoters had scheduled a dinner at the home of the U.S. Consulate General. It was quite striking to see the kitchen area filled with business or government people, while the couches in the living room were crowded around by twenty young men who had been invited there solely because they were good at playing a game. I'm quite confident that if they were being paid to play on this team, they would have fulfilled their obligation of mingling, but since they weren't being paid, they expressed their conscience at this party by ignoring the guest who had also taken the time to drive there. The only people I saw talking with the guest were me, Kerry and maybe two of the players. It was actually embarrassing, especially when we heard later of some of the guys climbing in the trees out front or leaving their beer bottles on the front porch.

Again, I think that sometimes doing the right thing might appear to conflict with your conscience, yet it's still the right thing.

I don't think any of us have a right to put ourselves in the man's shoes and decide what his conscience requires. I also don't think it's disrespectful to decline an invitation. If I were the president, I wouldn't have a problem with it; I don't think that occupying that office requires everyone invited to accept. On the contrary, one should realize that there will be those who decline for political reasons.

[Chadd 916]

I don't think any of us have a right to put ourselves in the man's shoes and decide what his conscience requires. I also don't think it's disrespectful to decline an invitation. If I were the president, I wouldn't have a problem with it; I don't think that occupying that office requires everyone invited to accept. On the contrary, one should realize that there will be those who decline for political reasons.

It's one thing to decline an invitation. Using it as an opportunity to make your own political statement, is a little different. In any case, it was blown way out of proportion.

[Jason Harris 31]

I don't think any of us have a right to put ourselves in the man's shoes and decide what his conscience requires. I also don't think it's disrespectful to decline an invitation. If I were the president, I wouldn't have a problem with it; I don't think that occupying that office requires everyone invited to accept. On the contrary, one should realize that there will be those who decline for political reasons.

I'm sure there have been many who've declined the invitation in the past. But Tim Thomas wasn't the inventor of a new source for renewable energy who could have quietly stayed home. He's a member of a team, in a sport that generally requires cohesiveness, and he made it clear to his teammates that his political statement was more important than standing with a painted smile on his face for 90 minutes.

Again, there are times when the right thing to do is something that we don't really want to do. Because of the reasons he was invited to the White House, he was in that situation yesterday.

[chippa13 1844]

It's one thing to decline an invitation. Using it as an opportunity to make your own political statement, is a little different. In any case, it was blown way out of proportion.

Avery did the same thing because of the past administration's stance on gay marriage and nobody thought twice about it.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Avery did the same thing because of the past administration's stance on gay marriage and nobody thought twice about it.

But he didn't reject an invitation to the White House.

Obama's mention of Thomas in the speech, and the subsequent "Oh s***, this is awkward" faces on the Bruins behind him says it all.

My whole thing is regardless of party lines (doesn't take a genius to see who he represents, just look at his mask) that's a team event. He took the White House visit for granted; what if he never wins another championship?

[chippa13 1844]

I disagree, I don't think he took if for granted but rather took it very seriously and probably too seriously in many people's opinions. I think as time goes by he will feel that he missed out on a neat experience but it is what it is.

An interesting take that I've heard a couple of times now is the perceived hypocrisy of a man in a sport that celebrates the handshake at the end of a series would skip this handshake.

[wrangler 157]

It's one thing to decline an invitation. Using it as an opportunity to make your own political statement, is a little different. In any case, it was blown way out of proportion.

I think he probably made the minimum statement required to satisfy the press, and nicely avoided pointing it at Obama. Yes, out of proportion, but the press lives for this stuff.

I'm sure there have been many who've declined the invitation in the past. But Tim Thomas wasn't the inventor of a new source for renewable energy who could have quietly stayed home. He's a member of a team, in a sport that generally requires cohesiveness, and he made it clear to his teammates that his political statement was more important than standing with a painted smile on his face for 90 minutes.

Again, there are times when the right thing to do is something that we don't really want to do. Because of the reasons he was invited to the White House, he was in that situation yesterday.

It seems to me you'd like him to govern his behavior by your conscience, rather than his. I don't think anyone else is in a position to balance the conflicting obligations and desires here, and make the "right" choice according to Thomas's standards. The "right thing" isn't necessarily the thing that you'd like to see, and I think that either choice here would be something he didn't "really want to do".

[goblue9280 33]

It seems to me you'd like him to govern his behavior by your conscience, rather than his.

Valid point Wrangler. It's hard for me to check my emotions when responding to this story. Here we have an American player, grew up playing under USA Hockey, is only the 2nd American to win the Conn Smythe, he was the major story line of the 2011 playoffs... and he decides to decline an invite that most every American believes to be one of the highest honors simply because he has political disagreements with the President. Deep down it disgusts me. It would have been a great moment for USA Hockey... an organization that I'm proud to be a part, and for which I volunteer countless hours to try and pass on my love and respect for the game to the next generation. So yeah, I'm pissed, and I feel he should have gone, if not for himself and his team, then for the countless American fans and volunteers out there who over the years have made it so he can earn millions of dollars playing the game he loves.

[chippa13 1844]

I think you're attaching just a hair too much meaning to this. The great moment for USA Hockey was Thomas hoisting the Conn Smythe.

[Joshison 1]

Good for Thomas.

[MarsB 33]

I personally loathe GWB's politics, but I would have graciously accepted an invite to the White House had I won the Cup during his tenure and would have shaken his hand like a man. Respect the office and the honor for what it is.

[Jason Harris 31]

It seems to me you'd like him to govern his behavior by your conscience, rather than his. I don't think anyone else is in a position to balance the conflicting obligations and desires here, and make the "right" choice according to Thomas's standards. The "right thing" isn't necessarily the thing that you'd like to see, and I think that either choice here would be something he didn't "really want to do".

I have no doubt he's following his conscience. But given the circumstances of being the only member to decline from a team that is well known for its closeness, I'm still saying he's a good man who made the wrong decision. Particularly if it really was his goal to effect changes to protect the "Rights, Liberties, and Property of the People."

Who's talking about his policies versus his political statement? Virtually no one. Because it is obvious he was following his conscience, if he really wanted dialogue to help change the country, he should have let it slip a week ago that he wasn't going to be attending. Why? Because I'm unhappy with A, B, C and I think we need to make changes like.....

If he does that, there would have been discussion in advance about what policies he would like to see changed, what role entertainers should play in voicing political opinions, whether declining the invite in a team sport is disrespectful to the office of the Presidency or his teammates or the fans. Instead, almost all the conversion has been about whether it was a grandstanding act that was disrespectful.

Again, a good man with a conscience who made the wrong decision.

[wrangler 157]

Jason, the main thing I've been trying to make clear is that I don't think it's up to you whether his decision was "wrong". I react this way because you state your opinion on this as an absolute, rather than as your opinion.

[goblue9280 33]

I think you're attaching just a hair too much meaning to this. The great moment for USA Hockey was Thomas hoisting the Conn Smythe.

Yes and Yes... but USA Hockey makes a big deal out of these events as well. Anytime American players go to the white house/capitol etc, they always put it in the magazine and on USAHockey.com. So the positive publicity of the event is a good thing for USA Hockey... and every little bit helps when you're trying to grow the game.

[chippa13 1844]

Here is the thing, I don't believe that Thomas was trying to make a statement with his absence, he was just doing what he believed was the right choice based on what he believes. The only reason there was an explanation from him was because of the media storm that immediately ensued and he had to issue a statement in hopes to make it go away. If he were truly interested in getting on a soapbox then he wouldn't have ended his statement by saying he wouldn't say anything else on the topic.

[psh 25]

What bothers me most about this whole incident is that I think it is a both a symptom and a cause for what is wrong with politics and social discourse in general today. Thomas has said that his absence what not meant to be partisan, but rather a statement about government in general. But based on his previous statements, I think it is pretty clear that he has a real abiding disagreement with the current administration. And, his absence has largely been interpreted as a reflection of his opposition to the policies of the current administration. Assuming that is true, here is my problem: He's simply refusing to engage with the other side of the argument, even in a setting that will be purely social and ceremonial. This was to be a celebration of the Bruins--indeed president Obama's public statements lavished great praise on not only the team, but Thomas himself. And Tim refused to show up. A big step toward improving civil discourse and politics would occur if everyone, and especially public figures, would simply engage personally with their opponents. Go meet them and look them in the eye. Talk with them. You might see that they don't have horns, aren't motivated by evil, and maybe really are attempting to improve the US and their kids' (and your kids') future. By hiding off in his cocoon, I think Thomas not only did a disservice to himself and his team, but also set a bad precedent for those who look up to him. The best way to improve this country is to hear out your supporters and your critics and to exchange ideas in a respectful and civil way. I think a lot of hyperbole, disinformation, and emotion would be wiped away if politicians, commentators, and other public figures simply made a point of meeting the objects of their daily derision. Thomas turned away from his political bogeyman and, unfortunately, a lot of people were watching or are now reading about it.

I thought Neely's statement regarding the whole thing was pretty good. It politely indicated disappointment and disapproval, but also pointed the way forward:

"As an organization we were honored by President Obama's invitation to the White House. It was a great day and a perfect way to cap our team's achievement from last season. It was a day that none of us will soon forget. We are disappointed that Tim chose not to join us, and his views certainly do not reflect those of the Jacobs family or the Bruins organization. This will be the last public comment from the Bruins organization on this subject."