Warrior Covert Stick Lineup

[KoT 2]

Miseaujeu & JR Boucicaut

How increase the flex of the stick flex when i cut -4in from DT1 70Flex Int. ?

JR Boucicaut

Thanks.

[Morten 2]

How does it affect the dagger taper flex profile, cutting the stick 6-8 inches(int. 55 flex)??

Are there removed too much of the soft part at the top of the shaft?

[Jason 65]

If the Gionta is not offered on the Covert, I'm done with Warrior. I fell in love with that curve and purchased several Widows with it. Personally I think they should keep it as it is unique, awesome and will gain popularity over time. I know on modsquad there are many fans of it.

Note to manufacturers: WE NEED MORE TOE CURVES AND LOWER LIES!!

[KoT 2]

Jason

W-14 clone P14. MB it's u curve....

[bekster 0]

If the Gionta is not offered on the Covert, I'm done with Warrior. I fell in love with that curve and purchased several Widows with it. Personally I think they should keep it as it is unique, awesome and will gain popularity over time. I know on modsquad there are many fans of it.

Note to manufacturers: WE NEED MORE TOE CURVES AND LOWER LIES!!

QFT!!

The P14 is more of a mid-toe with a shorter blade...

[Chadd 916]

Note to manufacturers: WE NEED MORE TOE CURVES AND LOWER LIES!!

Toe curves don't sell well, they never have. Sure there are a lot of vocal people on the internet that use it, but the numbers pale in comparison to people that use "normal" curves.

[steelnation248 101]

I'd like more toe curves with a higher lie personally. Definitely pumped to try the W14 curve out. I've been meaning to try the P14 but I'm not a fan of Bauer's Vapor series tapered blades.

[mmfalcon 0]

I am not sure I saw the answer to the question of adjusted flex, after the stick is cut. This includes the questions, both of total flex, as well as, the issue of the resulting repositioning of the flex zones on a multiflex design.

As reference, I am a senior, 5'8" 190# and currently play with a 54" TotalOne Senior 77 flex. If I understand the reduction/flex ratio correctly, by most standards, this cutdown size results in about a 93-95 flex. This would mean cutting a Covert 60" Intermediate about 6" and a 63" Senior a whopping 9". Does anyone have any guidance regarding the resulting flex of the new Covert, D1-D5, Sr 75 or Int 70, and the repositoning question regarding the flex zones?

Sorry to be so down in the weeds with these questions, but it is very interesting to understand.

[Jason 65]

W10 is the Gionta I believe, not the W14. I like Warrior's lie 4 and Easton and Bauer's lie 5. I'm trying out a P92 lie 5 right now and it's growing on me. Might be my new pattern.

[Miseaujeu 291]

I might be blind here but I'm not seeing the Kovalev curve listed on the DT1. Did it get renamed, or am I just missing it?

Kovalev is offered in DT1 Grip Sr.

[Miseaujeu 291]

I am not sure I saw the answer to the question of adjusted flex, after the stick is cut. This includes the questions, both of total flex, as well as, the issue of the resulting repositioning of the flex zones on a multiflex design.

As reference, I am a senior, 5'8" 190# and currently play with a 54" TotalOne Senior 77 flex. If I understand the reduction/flex ratio correctly, by most standards, this cutdown size results in about a 93-95 flex. This would mean cutting a Covert 60" Intermediate about 6" and a 63" Senior a whopping 9". Does anyone have any guidance regarding the resulting flex of the new Covert, D1-D5, Sr 75 or Int 70, and the repositoning question regarding the flex zones?

Sorry to be so down in the weeds with these questions, but it is very interesting to understand.

Hope this answers the "cutting=what flex" questions.

As I've stated in another thread, cutting a stick does not affect the measured flex reading. That means that when a stick is measured (to determine the flex at the factory) it is put on a machine that has a 42" span and the stick is then loaded and the flex measured with the machine. When a 63" Warrior stick is placed on the machine, with as much as 10" cut off the top, the reading on the machine is always the same.

True, when a stick is cut, it doesn't feel the same. But there's no scientific way to measure the exact flex change feeling a player gets. How do you account for players' varying strength, hand position, shooting style etc...

[mmfalcon 0]

Hope this answers the "cutting=what flex" questions.

As I've stated in another thread, cutting a stick does not affect the measured flex reading. That means that when a stick is measured (to determine the flex at the factory) it is put on a machine that has a 42" span and the stick is then loaded and the flex measured with the machine. When a 63" Warrior stick is placed on the machine, with as much as 10" cut off the top, the reading on the machine is always the same.

True, when a stick is cut, it doesn't feel the same. But there's no scientific way to measure the exact flex change feeling a player gets. How do you account for players' varying strength, hand position, shooting style etc...

Very interesting explanation of the Warrior measuring process. Effectively, that means that a Warrior cut down from the original 63" to a total length of 54", shall generally measure approximately the same flex as published, however, the unmeasurable feel factors shall, presumably, make it "feel" stiffer.

How do you think this 9-10" reduction in length, shall affect the performance of a stick construction such as the Covert True 1, with the upper softer flexing portion effectively removed in the cut down process? It is obvious that the relative position of the flex will be altered, but what should be reasonably expected regarding the performance curve for the modified length? The lower soft flex remains unaltered, however, the upper section is effectively be eliminated? Does the necessity of cutting so much off the length (to 54"), make an alternate Warrior construction such as the Fused format, a more appropriate choice?

As an additional thought, do you think an Intermediate, which would require much less length reduction, would better preserve the dual positioning of the True 1 format?

I appreciate your insight. Thanks for the time.

[Miseaujeu 291]

How do you think this 9-10" reduction in length, shall affect the performance of a stick construction such as the Covert True 1, with the upper softer flexing portion effectively removed in the cut down process? It is obvious that the relative position of the flex will be altered, but what should be reasonably expected regarding the performance curve for the modified length? The lower soft flex remains unaltered, however, the upper section is effectively be eliminated? Does the necessity of cutting so much off the length (to 54"), make an alternate Warrior construction such as the Fused format, a more appropriate choice?

As an additional thought, do you think an Intermediate, which would require much less length reduction, would better preserve the dual positioning of the True 1 format?

The controlled flex area at the top of the stick is engineered to be a longer gradual flex area. It is longer than if you cut 9" off the stick.

An intermediate will preserve more of the original designed top flex area, but the shorter stick with more flex must be taken into account as well.

[Xero117 7]

Hi Miseaujeu,

I am very interested in getting the covert dt1 but would like some advice on what flex to get.

I currently have a 60 flex total one intermediate cut down to 75 flex which is about 53" and was wondering if a 55 flex covert dt1 would be more appropriate than a 70 flex intermediate? I am leaning more towards a 55 flex intermediate as a 70 flex widow intermediate felt much stiffer than my total one when flexed with the same hand positions (top hand around 53-54" on the shaft) but I have not found a 55 flex widow to compare. Unfortunately I cannot take any shots with the widow as I've read that it flexes much differently when it is actually being shot with than flexing in stores due to the dagger taper. So I was wondering which flex to get the covert dt1 in?

[Miseaujeu 291]

Some more insight into the technologies included throughout the entire Covert line.

http://www.warrior.c...default,pg.html

Hope this spurs some more questions, I'm here to support.

[mmfalcon 0]

Miseaujau,

Carefully read the listed specs for the D-1 through D-5 stick constructions, however, it's very difficult to actually reach a conclusion as to which stick is a better match for a players style or skill level. The tech details of the different blade construction, etc, highlight the differences, but do not explain the resulting distinctions in performance goals. Any guidance to the selection process would very helpful and appreciated.

[AIREAYE 248]

Shot in the dark here, but is the DT1 blade the same weight as the Widow blade? If I might guess, could it be that the lighter HardcoreX offsets the additional aramid sole, carbonized face and twinspar?

[Miseaujeu 291]

Shot in the dark here, but is the DT1 blade the same weight as the Widow blade? If I might guess, could it be that the lighter HardcoreX offsets the additional aramid sole, carbonized face and twinspar?

Good question.

DT1 blade is actually lighter than Widow!

One of our main goals through development was to shift the paradigm that lighter sticks break easier. It's been "understood" in the market, but we don't believe it's fair.

Through better materials research, controlling manufacturing in our processes, design/engineering and testing...we feel we can achieve BOTH - Lighter AND Stronger.

[Miseaujeu 291]

Miseaujau,

Carefully read the listed specs for the D-1 through D-5 stick constructions, however, it's very difficult to actually reach a conclusion as to which stick is a better match for a players style or skill level. The tech details of the different blade construction, etc, highlight the differences, but do not explain the resulting distinctions in performance goals. Any guidance to the selection process would very helpful and appreciated.

Thanks for the question mmfalcon.

It is pretty difficult to narrow down a specific player to each product, but I understand the need to compartmentalize features with a direct performance result. This is a very general way of looking at it, and could be debated, but here's my take.

The Covert line, as a whole, can be viewed as a "game improvement" line of product. Player's seeking performance benefits, at each model level, are given features to help better their game, no matter how much they are willing to spend. Our idea for the line was to make each price point of product the very best for that specific consumer. Many times, a player walk into the store with a specific spend-amount and we recognize that we have to give that player the very best stick for each spend-level.

If I had to re-write copy for the catalog in the sense of a dinner party conversation. Here goes:

DT1 - The absolute very best materials available, engineered to give the best game-improvement performance proven by the best players in the world. Pure Performance.

DT2 - The DT1's performance(and almost same weight/balance), with added twist resistance for Stronger players looking for Dagger Taper's intense quick release but with more twist resistance. (this model and construction came as a result of research with stronger Pro players)

DT3 - A very competitive market price level. With the addition of True1 and Dagger Tech; we want to add specific features to this model (Full 3K Carbon weave shaft+blade) to help demonstrate pro features and spec in a mid-high price.

DT4 - What has become the most competitive price point in the industry. DT4 offers Dagger Tech and most important True1. True1 in a stick at this price is not only a construction benefit for uniform flex control, but when most sticks at this price are usually heavier, True1 constructing this package eliminates the fuse point down low on this stick. That eliminates a ton of weight down low, making the stick feel very blade-light. The balance on this stick is rival to many other high end sticks on the market.

DT5 - This player gets all the benefits of Dagger Taper Flex game-improvement (which could be very beneficial for lifting and quick release of the puck) and the balance and weight benefits of True1. For $79...the most bang for the buck.

Edit: Whoa that was a giant post! Sorry!

[mmfalcon 0]

Miseaujeu,

Thanks you for the very well presented and definitely helpful descriptions. This will be a solid guide for both myself and other prospective buyers.

As we are all too aware, it is unfortunate that too often, products are simply distinguished by their graphics and buzz, rather than the innovative hours of engineering and thoughtful market positioning, that go completely unseen at the point of sale.

Your descriptions of the characteristics and positioning would be of assistance to any prospective purchaser. The price point issue, coupled with an understanding of what exactly is being offered for the cost, is exactly what is needed to make an informed choice.

While it may be a truism that you "get what you pay for", it is also true that it helps to know "what" you have actually paid for.

Thanks.

[Law Goalie 147]

Well said.

[Miseaujeu 291]

Miseaujeu,

Thanks you for the very well presented and definitely helpful descriptions. This will be a solid guide for both myself and other prospective buyers.

As we are all too aware, it is unfortunate that too often, products are simply distinguished by their graphics and buzz, rather than the innovative hours of engineering and thoughtful market positioning, that go completely unseen at the point of sale.

Your descriptions of the characteristics and positioning would be of assistance to any prospective purchaser. The price point issue, coupled with an understanding of what exactly is being offered for the cost, is exactly what is needed to make an informed choice.

While it may be a truism that you "get what you pay for", it is also true that it helps to know "what" you have actually paid for.

Thanks.

I agree with Law. Very well said...and Thanks for appreciating the Marketing and Engineering thought that goes into it.

[noodle3872 40]

Miseaujeu,

What would be the direct comparibles for the DT2? Mako, One100 etc?

Mike

[watchgreat 4]

It seems like the DT2 is a higher quality stick then the DT1 or am I misreading it.

[McDougalfaschnitzer 32]

After getting to try the DT1 out, it felt different than the widow (based on my limited widow experience) in that to me the DT1 felt more like it was an extension of my hands and arms, while the widow felt more like I was just holding a weapon in my hands. It didn't feel ceramic at all, and the feel was very nice. All in all it just felt like a more natural performing stick to me.