New Hockey Stick Brand, Would You Buy?!

[Sniper8 0]

Hey everyone!

I have a general question for everyone on the forum. Let me start by saying I have played hockey my entire life and still play one to two times a week in Men's leagues. I grew up playing with the typical $30 wood stick like everyone else who grew up in my day and of course through high school and college used the first composites when they came to market. Being only a men's league player, buying a stick is no longer an imminent need and I used to be able to find a prior year top of the line model for about $150 and considered that to be reasonable. Unfortunately this year I wasn't so lucky and had to bite the bullet and pay full sticker, $260 for one of the new top of the line models. While checking out I cringed at the thought of having to fully outfit the two kids my wife and I are planning on having in the next few years!! How can any parent afford that!?

That said, I have a client and good friend who manufactures all things composite. I worked with him and his engineers and produced some hockey sticks to test out on the ice. All the sticks are made of top of the line composite materials and have a weight / balance comparable to all the other top of the line sticks on the market. I tested them myself and a few guys on my team also tested them out. All feedback was positive, however, cost to make the sticks still are not all that cheap since the composite materials themselves are fairly expensive!

While costs to manufacture still are not at the "wood stick" level I believe there are ways we get these high quality sticks into the hands of all hockey players reasonable prices. First, I would plan to not sponsor any professional players. I believe part of the huge price tag on the Easton, Bauer, Reebok etc. lines is largely due to the multiple multi-million dollar contracts with pro players and the hundreds of free sticks they break every year. Why should you and I pay for that?! Second is to sell direct to consumer through the web, reducing cost in the supply chain. My biggest concern and question to you guys is would you buy a top of the line quality hockey stick for $150 if it wasn't endorsed by any pro player? Does the $150 price tag automatically imply low quality even if it is of the same or better quality than other top of the line sticks? How can I gain credibility in the market without a pricey sponsorship?

I would love any feedback you guys can give!

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

First off, the "huge price tag" doesn't come from NHL exposure. NHL teams pay for all of the equipment players use in the NHL; it isn't free. Teams are consumers, just like the members on our site. And trust me...NHL players are not getting paid multi-millions to endorse a product. There's only one who is over $1M, and he's a global brand athlete.

But honestly, what makes me laugh is people who feel like they cracked the code when it comes to these things; that they know something that hockey manufacturers who invest money in research and development and develop patents seem to overlook.

Sorry to shit in your Cheerios, but it seems like every year 4 people make the same post, and it doesn't get anywhere. Usually it's because it's a bad product, or they have no clue about this business.

[Sniper8 0]

I appreciate the feedback. The reality is the cost to market any product, whether it is a golf club, fishing rod or baseball bat are sickening and can ultimately double the cost to the end user. In today's world of social media and forums like this is it possible to successfully launch a product without having to pass on that added cost? Are we there yet or is that point still too far in the future?

[Souldriver 64]

So whatvmakes your product better than others? You say weight and balance are just as good as the top of the lines and it uses top composites. Ok, so do the big guys? Does yours have an hot launch like the rbz sticks? Is it as durable as the past years converts? Does it have some amped mid kick without sacraficing feel like the TO? No bad wishes against you but like JR said there is tons to it that doesn't meet the eye.

[bg9 12]

I don't think you'd ever get traction selling online only. I've never held one of your sticks and neither has anyone else on MSH. So much of choosing a stick for me is feeling it in my hands. Online sales only come after I know what the stick feels like.

If you watch any of those shows like Shark Tank or Dragons Den, you'll see they get excited when you have a major retail partner. That's the only way to get started, especially in hockey sticks. Look at how many brands have failed or struggle with retail distribution. Better do your homework.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Exactly - selling direct means you eliminate the middleman and make greater margin. However, that also means that you have to have multiple SKUs in stock at all times to be able to serve everyone. Keeping all of that inventory on hand without anyone knowing your product is a recipe for disaster.

I've been in a major manufacturer's warehouse and it isn't as huge as you would think - everything is forecasted and the retailers do the heavy lifting when it comes to the actual product - that is why you have booking seasons - it barely sits in the warehouse because they are already allocated to get out the door and be in someone else's warehouse.

But the idea of doing the EXACT OPPOSITE and have it be a successful business model for an unknown product blows my mind, and the fact that it's revisited year after year after year...

[AIREAYE 248]

It's an emotional thing. People like sticks, people really want good sticks. People see $300 sticks that are good and want them, but do no like the $300. People think there is a need there for good sticks that are not $300. People forget to glance over to the clearance zone.

Emotionally driven ventures are rarely good ventures. And for that reason, I'm out.

[Larry54 243]

Hey everyone!

I have a general question for everyone on the forum. Let me start by saying I have played hockey my entire life and still play one to two times a week in Men's leagues. I grew up playing with the typical $30 wood stick like everyone else who grew up in my day and of course through high school and college used the first composites when they came to market. Being only a men's league player, buying a stick is no longer an imminent need and I used to be able to find a prior year top of the line model for about $150 and considered that to be reasonable. Unfortunately this year I wasn't so lucky and had to bite the bullet and pay full sticker, $260 for one of the new top of the line models. While checking out I cringed at the thought of having to fully outfit the two kids my wife and I are planning on having in the next few years!! How can any parent afford that!?

That said, I have a client and good friend who manufactures all things composite. I worked with him and his engineers and produced some hockey sticks to test out on the ice. All the sticks are made of top of the line composite materials and have a weight / balance comparable to all the other top of the line sticks on the market. I tested them myself and a few guys on my team also tested them out. All feedback was positive, however, cost to make the sticks still are not all that cheap since the composite materials themselves are fairly expensive!

While costs to manufacture still are not at the "wood stick" level I believe there are ways we get these high quality sticks into the hands of all hockey players reasonable prices. First, I would plan to not sponsor any professional players. I believe part of the huge price tag on the Easton, Bauer, Reebok etc. lines is largely due to the multiple multi-million dollar contracts with pro players and the hundreds of free sticks they break every year. Why should you and I pay for that?! Second is to sell direct to consumer through the web, reducing cost in the supply chain. My biggest concern and question to you guys is would you buy a top of the line quality hockey stick for $150 if it wasn't endorsed by any pro player? Does the $150 price tag automatically imply low quality even if it is of the same or better quality than other top of the line sticks? How can I gain credibility in the market without a pricey sponsorship?

I would love any feedback you guys can give!

What you want to do sounds exactly like what BASE Hockey is doing, except that one of its founders also founded Innovative Hockey, so he had valuable experience to bring to his new company. I decided to buy their sticks because they offered some things that I required in a stick that the other companies didn't.

[CTB 32]

Also you need to take into consideration that a fair amount of the buyers market for hockey equipment, in particular sticks are going to be heavily influenced by the brands that the pros use. An off brand stick will not have the same appeal to a younger player as the same one they can see their favorite players sporting on the ice (ignoring the fact that the what the pro use is highly customized/painted over to reflect the latest and greatest models).

In the end off brand will be marketing to a very specific customer base.

[JJStripes 1]

You are going to have to find a way to let people touch and feel first. In my opinion, your best bet is to show up at a bunch of major youth tournaments with your product on display, and with samples that people can touch and feel. If the stick feels good, and the price is compelling then you might get some people to order a few. From there, it's all about momentum. Will those first few players tell their teammates they like it? Will parents start talking amongst themselves about them? Will they perform well in the real world, and if they do, will the first customers spread the word?

[McDugan 89]

IMO the way to go with this is to pitch to the big retailers to supply "house brand" sticks. You need to be able to count on a certain amount of product to sell, and orders of 1-3 at a time from end users aren't going to sustain you.

[gxc999 7]

I'm more willing to try new things than most but it comes with a caveat. You have to know the business first off. Plus, it's always wrong to expect to start a business and make a quick profit. Have enough to invest to plan on losing money for at least 1-2 years.

[Chadd 916]

Base does a good job marketing the impression of "pro" and "custom" sticks. Harrow has been selling direct with some success for years, though a lot of people wait for one of their regular discount codes. There will always be some people that will buy a new stick, just to be different from everyone else in there area and others that will buy based on their belief that they have some sort of special relationship with a manufacturer via social media.

Unfortunately, the reality of these situations is usually that someone bought the marketing line from one of the factories in China and/or wants to make a few bucks while "owning a hockey company". Can it be done profitably? Yes, if you manage the process properly. Are the sticks as good as those $300 sticks you mention? No, they're usually equivalent to mid level sticks, maybe a little better. I know, I've played samples from a number of those Chinese factories.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

Can it be done profitably? Yes, if you manage the process properly. Are the sticks as good as those $300 sticks you mention? No, they're usually equivalent to mid level sticks, maybe a little better. I know, I've played samples from a number of those Chinese factories.

^ HockeyTron

[romdj 26]

Fact of the matter is, you can get great bang for the buck with sticks such as the sherwood t90 and winnwell gx8.

Also, saying sticks are too expensive but not willing to get anything other than an ops is some kind of a joke imo, if you want good value, you may start with an ops, but if you don't want to throw away your stick, then you better convert it to a two piece setup.

Plus there have been so many sticks company that entered the market to get out of it, if it was so profitable, that wouldn't be happening (Miken, Combat, Kynetyk...(list goes on) made good sticks, but discontinued their hockey lines for various reasons).

It is crystal clear that if you're willing to market hockey equipment without letting people feel the actual object, you will not do well...

[jdksaves 56]

A lot more goes into this industry than making a stick at a certain price and selling it online. You have many different aspects that I am not going to get into as it would take for ever and I am not one to write a novel and the other aspect is if you don't know how the industry works it will be difficult. As JR said there are always new brands that come and go because it was a situation like yours where you say I play hockey and i have some possible contacts to make me a stick I got some of the answers and we will just take it from there. You need a lot of money to make yourself a name brand not just another new brand and a lot of that goes to Marketing and you have to market big or you won't be relevant, but there is a lot more to it than just that as well. Good luck is all I have to say and learn for a long time and then think it over and see what you can come up with.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

No innovation = no point.

[Cavs019 702]

I always look at the distinction between Warrior and Inno/MIA in situations like this...

Not to try and teach marketing 101 here, but how many people outside of the gearhead Corebeam/MSH community knew that the Dolomite and 1100 were roughly the same stick? As a result of marketing, brand recognition/inertia, and large scale distribution, the Dolomite probably outsold the 1100 30-1. Same can be said for the 1st iteration Franchise vs the MIA MB22. Demand/intrigue spiked dramatically once the product had a recognizable/asperational name on it.

Not to repeat what everyone has already said, but all new entrants assume that no NHL exposure/direct to consumer = reinventing sliced bread, when the reality is marketing and brand equity/recognition are what drive consumer demand in this industry. Unless you can build that equity organically via large marketing spend, or have already existing equity and acquire lesser known manufacturers who are already making a sound product (Warrior -->Inno/MIA), the deck is stacked against you.

[Wolfpack_1986 146]

No innovation = no point.

Not strictly. If you delivered a more cost effective product, you dont need to reinvent the wheel.

[bunnyman666 445]

I have waited to weigh in. I haven't run a stick company, but I did run a bespoke carbon fibre bicycle parts and prototyping concern for a few years. When people look for cheap, that's all they are looking for. How many times did I get the "can you build it just like widget A, but at $xxx price point?"? Agrh!!!!

In order to get your name on the map, you will probably purchase a bunch of sticks to benchmark. The only other way you could do this is contract with the sea of Chinese composite factories. If you have an original design, get ready for it to be stolen. Or you could get in the queue for one of many "stencil" sticks, where you have to count on volume. Those Chinese factories (unless you own it) will do things like turn out your stuff wrong so that you have to pay the agent more money and get the factory owner to do it right. Yes, it is just like organised crime over there.

Sticks are expensive. My best suggestion is to find what you like and buy it in bulk on clearance. Believe me, even if you ended up being a private labeller, you will easily outspend what you would have saved. Take it from a bloke who has been there- no freaking fun!!!!

[Hyounghockeystick 2]

Base does a good job marketing the impression of "pro" and "custom" sticks. Harrow has been selling direct with some success for years, though a lot of people wait for one of their regular discount codes. There will always be some people that will buy a new stick, just to be different from everyone else in there area and others that will buy based on their belief that they have some sort of special relationship with a manufacturer via social media.

Unfortunately, the reality of these situations is usually that someone bought the marketing line from one of the factories in China and/or wants to make a few bucks while "owning a hockey company". Can it be done profitably? Yes, if you manage the process properly. Are the sticks as good as those $300 sticks you mention? No, they're usually equivalent to mid level sticks, maybe a little better. I know, I've played samples from a number of those Chinese factories.

hello, do you interesting test our sample stick? it's a really one-piece hockey stick. we are hockey stick factory from china

starting an new hockey brand is a hard job.

[rawkstar 45]

I wouldn't buy a $150 stick that supposedly is just as good as a $260 stick from a no name brand that no one has tried. I may consider buying that said stick for $50. Maybe.

It has to be compelling, you know. A lot of times people can still buy those top of the line sticks on clearance for less than 150, why would I shell out that kind of cash on a product I know nothing about, no one has heard of or tried and might very well be one of those sticks from the China thread with a new sticker on it? Couple of guys playing beer league making awesome sticks in their garage? Really?

Now if you straight up said hey we're just trying to make decent sticks for broke beer leaguers and we want everyone to have them bam they're $30 a stick, $50 for top of the line. Then that may compel people to give it a try, but to come out and say hey I know a guy and we can make sticks as good as the big boys and sell them for a little bit less is just kind of silly. It's like saying hey I know a guy who's really into cars and I bet we could make a car that's just as good as a $50k Beemer, would you buy it for $40k? Lol.

[Chadd 916]

hello, do you interesting test our sample stick? it's a really one-piece hockey stick. we are hockey stick factory from china

starting an new hockey brand is a hard job.

If you'd like to send me one, I would be happy to test it. Just as I have with a number of other sticks over the years. Just click on my name and send me a message with more information.

[kovalchuk71 212]

Not to mention the little guy stick market is ridiculously over saturated right now.

[AIREAYE 248]

Not to mention the little guy stick market is ridiculously over saturated right now.

Like lemmings over a cliff.