Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[VegasHockey 1280]

20 hours ago, Leif said:

Even my good LHS never did a perfect sharpening. In my experience the Sparx does the closest you’ll ever get. The profile is  preserved, the edges are level, what’s not to like? Before I got one I drove 25 miles to get a sharpening. 50 miles round trip, a morning written off, petrol and car to pay for, and sharpening to pay for. There’s almost no learning curve with a Sparx. But do buy the edge checker ie BAT gauge. 

Humans are the biggest variable and even the best equipment manager or pro shop individual has bad days. I would love to think I never make mistakes, but that would not be factual. 

[Leif 161]

2 hours ago, PBH said:

Humans are the biggest variable and even the best equipment manager or pro shop individual has bad days. I would love to think I never make mistakes, but that would not be factual. 

I’m not suggesting that a skiiled sharpener routinely or often makes mistakes, the ones I trusted were very good, but my suspicion is that a human cannot maintain a truly constant pressure across the entire length of the blade. Over the course of a year the very tiny differences in the amount of metal removed lead to a noticeable change in the profile. I might be wrong - I can’t manually sharpen skates, and I’ve seen no research studies. Sparx make similar claims, admittedly they’re not a disinterested party. It’d be interesting to know how NHL equipment managers sharpen blades. Do they run blades right down? Do they regularly reprofile them? Do they routinely check the profiles? Are they so good that the profiles don’t change? 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Leif

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

For those who have a blade holder, when you sharpen steel in the Sparx, do you prefer to sharpen steel in the skate holder or the Sparx blade holder.  What would give you more even edges?  (I assume the blade holder)

[marka 526]

Howdy,

21 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

For those who have a blade holder, when you sharpen steel in the Sparx, do you prefer to sharpen steel in the skate holder or the Sparx blade holder.  What would give you more even edges?  (I assume the blade holder)

I assume you mean "consistently even over the length of the runner"... Obviously you can adjust the machine so that at any given point along the runner, the edges will be even to the resolution of the in/out adjustment mechanism for the grinding wheel.

I haven't noticed a difference between the two.  I can't see any reason there would be, assuming the runners are straight.

If the runners aren't straight, then a holder is likely going to hold them "straighter" I think... A holder has more bearing length on the runner.  The blade holder just has the center section that clamps on the runner.  Of course, if the holder itself is bent, then the holder could contribute to a problem.

The machine's clamp itself will also try and straighten the blade a bit as well, I would imagine.

Anyway, all this comes back to "are your runners straight?"  Fix that if that's not the case and you'll get even edges over the length of the runner.

Mark

[colins 246]

 

My Sparx is just over 5 years old. It shipped Jul 2016. My two boys were in minor hockey at the time and they now play Jr A and NCAA. I play beer league a couple times a week.

I've never had a single problem with the Sparx in that time. I routinely do 2 passes every couple of games/practices to keep our edges always 'like new'. I very rarely do more than 2. I've sharpened everything from Step Steel to stock steel and the Sparx handled them all equally well. When coming home from Jr A seasons my boys' steel was usually destroyed from a profile perspective because of their team equipment managers sharpening on BladeMaster machines. The toe and heels were significantly rounded off from the manual machines.

Sharpening on the Sparx (which I have done for my own skates exclusively) has never affected the profile on my steel, so my blades last a lot longer than theirs do. But then again they are on the ice practically ever day vs. twice a week for me.

I don't have any experience with the ProSharp unit so I can't offer any comparison head to head.

Yes, it would be great if Sparx wheels were cheaper but honestly at the current prices and the way I use my machine, it's simply incredible value to me and our family and has been since the first day it arrived.

Russ owns the company so yes take his words with a grain of salt as everyone has their own biases, but Russ is an engineer not a business or marketing guy. Everything I have read or watched (lots of great Sparx history on youtube) from Russ was logical, fair, balanced and very much what you would expect from an engineer with a background in industrial design.

I was in on the Kickstarter like many others here, and for that first year or so when timelines kept slipping I'm sure we all wondered whether Sparx was ever going to deliver on their promise of a revolutionary home skate sharpening machine... well 5 years later after their first launch I can say from my own experiences with the product that they exceeded my expectations, and pretty much nailed it right from the first revision of the machine.

For a small company like Sparx, that's pretty impressive when you consider what went into getting the first units out the door.

 

 

[rh71el2 3]

On 8/31/2021 at 5:49 PM, Leif said:

I’m not suggesting that a skiiled sharpener routinely or often makes mistakes, the ones I trusted were very good, but my suspicion is that a human cannot maintain a truly constant pressure across the entire length of the blade. Over the course of a year the very tiny differences in the amount of metal removed lead to a noticeable change in the profile. I might be wrong - I can’t manually sharpen skates, and I’ve seen no research studies. Sparx make similar claims, admittedly they’re not a disinterested party. It’d be interesting to know how NHL equipment managers sharpen blades. Do they run blades right down? Do they regularly reprofile them? Do they routinely check the profiles? Are they so good that the profiles don’t change? 

Curious about how the pros get 'er done too.  I've seen the Crosby/Penguins equipment guy video and maybe 1 other.

[Vet88 674]

Every team is now running automated sharpeners, they are a no brainer for an EQM as they make the daily job of maintaining edges and profiles just so much easier. Each player will have 3 or 4 sets of blades, these are rotated regularly so the height is relatively consistent across the sets. If a breakage / edge failure occurs then it's a quick swap out between shifts and business as usual. Checking profiles is up to the EQM, there are some who do it weekly whilst others might only do it monthly or longer. However technology is continually changing this, automatic sharpeners provided the first real tool for EQMs to change the traditional way they were doing things, Multi profilers like the Elite profiler that will do 4 blades at a time is another tool to make the job easier. But the real game changer atm has been the Elite sharpener (2 years ago it was just the Canadians, now 10 NHL teams have them and I'm told most of the league is catching up). This tracks the profile across each sharpen, besides the fact that the profile shouldn't / doesn't change, the machine will tell you when it has changed beyond a defined tolerance. Now the profile is continually checked and consistent across sharpens and you can do 2 blades at a time. Profile once and then just sharpen for the life of the blade, the EQMs job has just got significantly easier.

My source is a family connection who isn't an EQM but does have some involvement in this area with an NHL team. I was discussing this with him a few years ago and just recently in July.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:49 PM, Leif said:

I’m not suggesting that a skiiled sharpener routinely or often makes mistakes, the ones I trusted were very good, but my suspicion is that a human cannot maintain a truly constant pressure across the entire length of the blade. Over the course of a year the very tiny differences in the amount of metal removed lead to a noticeable change in the profile. I might be wrong - I can’t manually sharpen skates, and I’ve seen no research studies. Sparx make similar claims, admittedly they’re not a disinterested party. It’d be interesting to know how NHL equipment managers sharpen blades. Do they run blades right down? Do they regularly reprofile them? Do they routinely check the profiles? Are they so good that the profiles don’t change? 

I use an SSM TT-3 as the primary machine for the store. The sled and jig are attached on ball bearings so that sled is limited on the X and Y axis. The operator cannot rotate the jig like they can with a Blademaster or Blackstone machine. However, the amount of pressure and speed is regulated by the operator and as mentioned this means the profile over a long period of time does get modified. It just takes a much longer amount of time compared to a fully manual machine. 

Machines like CAG, ProSharp, Elite, and Sparx all sharpen very well and also do a good job maintaining profile shape better than any manual or semi-manual machine. This is fact. 

The problem is the public perception that automated machines are not good.

This is primarily because they have had a bad experience at one point from someone who had a semi-automated or fully-automated machine and once bitten, twice shy. Usually, this is due to the operator or calibration or general failure to maintain the machine properly. Not an issue with the machine itself. 

As a professional, I can tell you emphatically that I would prefer a semi-automated or fully-automated machine over a manual machine 100% as long as the person operating the machine is competent.

At the end of the day, the operator is the weakest link regardless of the machine.

I have literally watched a pro shop employee launch a figure skate through a wall because the toe pick in a ProSharp machine made contact with the wheel. Had anyone been in front of that machine they would have been maimed. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by PBH

[helmet91 15]

In regards to bad experiences with automated machines...  When I first saw Sparx three or four years ago the first thing I thought of was this crazy machine that was in the lobby of local rink where I grew up (in Central Ohio).  It sounded like the skates were being sharpened with a chain saw.  LOL

Thankfully our Sparx isn't as scary.

[NDhockey13 3]

Similar to a CAG Albeit watered down. For me Wissota 911 was a good option as it’s just a smaller version of a blade master machine (operationally) and I learned to sharpen on one of those way back.  I like it. The machine is quiet supplies aren’t super expensive it’s reliable and accurate if you do your part.  

[NiCnoK 61]

Thanks, in part, to all the great content in this thread (all 77 pages!) I went all in on the Sparx. While I was waiting for it to arrive, I build some gauges to help keep track of each steel's hours between sharpening. Sounds like perhaps I should just be touching them up between each skate, but I'm worried about blowing thru runners too fast. As I'm sure is obvious by the image, my skates are old and I'm sure there's a finite amount of Step Mako steel out there.

Either way, thanks to both this thread and the Mako one for keeping my wheel game top-notch. I'd prolly be stuck in my so-so fitting pro return skates with high school kid sharpened edges without MSH.

[bcboy20 1]

Hey Guys, 

ive owned a sparx for 3 years now and live it. Go through about 5-6 rings a season. Has anyone had their machine start to “skip” or have the belt “skip” or click on the return pass and is almost home. I emailed sparx and they said it either needs to be returned for work or needs to be cleaned thouroghly.  I vacuum and blow the machine out regularly.  
Has anyone taken their machine apart also ? I dont want to but might have to get down to the bottom of this and oil up a bearing or something. Thanks! 

[helmet91 15]

Dumb question...

Do you think you could use a 1-1/4 radius wheel as a de facto cross grind wheel?  I have four skaters in the house, not including me... and they're regularly dinging up their blades (5/8 Fire, 1/2 and 5/8) at no fault of their own.  The rinks here aren't the best and there's plenty of blade unfriendly things in the locker room, the halls, the benches, etc.  Most times a regular four passes cleans everything up, but on occasion it looks they ran across the parking lot (slight exaggeration) and all the passes in the world won't "fix" the issue.

Would the relative "flatness" of the 1-1/4 cleanup those stubborn dings?  Or is that going to waste passes with my other rings after using the 1-1/4?  Granted I wouldn't do it very often, just in dire circumstances.

Thoughts?  I'm just spitballing here...  And please don't suggest taking the skates to a shop - hockey shops are few and far between here; with limited hours; and questionable sharpening results.  Throw in the new COVID lockdown and getting skates sharpened outside of our Sparx here at home is pretty much not going to happen.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

[Leif 161]

You’d just end up using up the 1.25” wheel, which has the same total number of passes as other wheels, and then you’d have to put the original hollow back on, which also takes lots of passes. It might work out more expensive than lots of passes with the correct hollow. At least that’s how I see it. It’s a shame Sparx don’t do a bulk buy deal, but sales of wheels is probably a good money earner for them. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

MHO, but the point of a cross grind wheel / station is to use a more aggressive abrasive to remove material faster (with a correspondingly rougher finish).  Assuming that the normal Sparx rings all use the same abrasive (which I think is the case), I don't see any benefit to using a really flat ring vs. your normal ring.  If you happen to have other rings that you won't be using anyway, then sure, burn those up for 10+ cycles to remove dings, but if you're going to be buying rings anyway, just use the normal ones.
 

The other option is to get the pro unit that they sell actual cross grind rings for.  At least until someone hacks the chip or whatever and enables the use of the pro cross grind rings on a home unit.

Mark

[stick9 888]

6 hours ago, helmet91 said:

Dumb question...

Do you think you could use a 1-1/4 radius wheel as a de facto cross grind wheel?  I have four skaters in the house, not including me... and they're regularly dinging up their blades (5/8 Fire, 1/2 and 5/8) at no fault of their own.  The rinks here aren't the best and there's plenty of blade unfriendly things in the locker room, the halls, the benches, etc.  Most times a regular four passes cleans everything up, but on occasion it looks they ran across the parking lot (slight exaggeration) and all the passes in the world won't "fix" the issue.

Would the relative "flatness" of the 1-1/4 cleanup those stubborn dings?  Or is that going to waste passes with my other rings after using the 1-1/4?  Granted I wouldn't do it very often, just in dire circumstances.

Thoughts?  I'm just spitballing here...  And please don't suggest taking the skates to a shop - hockey shops are few and far between here; with limited hours; and questionable sharpening results.  Throw in the new COVID lockdown and getting skates sharpened outside of our Sparx here at home is pretty much not going to happen.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

It's not a bad idea. Especially if you have rings you don't use. I do the same with an Fire ring I don't like. For example. I recently got some new steel so instead of doing 10 passes with my 3/4 ring. I did 4-6 passed with that old Fire ring to flatten things out then finished with my desired 3/4 hollow. I'm still doing 10 total passes. I'm just not burning thru my good ring in the process.

I wouldn't do this every time. It actually takes more passes to cut a new hollow than it does to maintain one. I find this method works well for new steel, really bad edges or a change in hollow. I find going flatter than your normal hollow works best. 

What I am unsure of is how this affects runner life. Am I removing more steel than I need to by doing this.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:18 AM, bcboy20 said:

Hey Guys, 

ive owned a sparx for 3 years now and live it. Go through about 5-6 rings a season. Has anyone had their machine start to “skip” or have the belt “skip” or click on the return pass and is almost home. I emailed sparx and they said it either needs to be returned for work or needs to be cleaned thouroghly.  I vacuum and blow the machine out regularly.  
Has anyone taken their machine apart also ? I dont want to but might have to get down to the bottom of this and oil up a bearing or something. Thanks! 

Can you take a video of this? I had an issue like this in the past when we had Sparx machines and I disassembled the machine at one point to get a better understanding of how its assembled. 

[bcboy20 1]

16 hours ago, PBH said:

Can you take a video of this? I had an issue like this in the past when we had Sparx machines and I disassembled the machine at one point to get a better understanding of how its assembled. 

Hey, I got it to stop. What I found was when I had the machine run without the glass, it seemed like it was sticky and couldn’t pull the ring back to home along the blade.  I started to use a skate guard and pushed it and it had no problem. I ended up cleaning the whole machine inside and out, then used just a tiny bit of grease on the inside along the rail that it runs on.  Moved it. Sick and forth a bit and runs perfect again now. 

[helmet91 15]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2021 at 6:27 PM, stick9 said:

It's not a bad idea. Especially if you have rings you don't use. I do the same with an Fire ring I don't like. For example. I recently got some new steel so instead of doing 10 passes with my 3/4 ring. I did 4-6 passed with that old Fire ring to flatten things out then finished with my desired 3/4 hollow. I'm still doing 10 total passes. I'm just not burning thru my good ring in the process.

I wouldn't do this every time. It actually takes more passes to cut a new hollow than it does to maintain one. I find this method works well for new steel, really bad edges or a change in hollow. I find going flatter than your normal hollow works best. 

What I am unsure of is how this affects runner life. Am I removing more steel than I need to by doing this.

 

It definitely wouldn't be a regular thing.  I'd bet the 1-1/4 ring would last me a very, very long time.  I can't imagine I'd have to go this route more than once or twice a season, and that's across the board for all the skaters in the house.

 

[rh71el2 3]

How many passes to change your sharpening? I used the sharpie method and after 1 pass it was completely gone so that's unreliable IMO. I'm trying to change from 5/8 fire to 3/4 fire (more glide). I did 2 passes each skate and it actually felt waaay sharper while skating than 5/8 and even when I used 1/2 fire in the past. Lots of leg fatigue in a game. Maybe it's some crazy in between because I didn't do enough passes?

[stick9 888]

2 hours ago, rh71el2 said:

How many passes to change your sharpening? I used the sharpie method and after 1 pass it was completely gone so that's unreliable IMO. I'm trying to change from 5/8 fire to 3/4 fire (more glide). I did 2 passes each skate and it actually felt waaay sharper while skating than 5/8 and even when I used 1/2 fire in the past. Lots of leg fatigue in a game. Maybe it's some crazy in between because I didn't do enough passes?

I usually do 4 passes when switching hollows. 

If skated on the 3/4 Fire. Sharp is not a word I would use to describe it. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Yes, I don't think the sharpie method works at all.  My guess is that the sparks/swarf thrown from the grinding wipe out the sharpie long before the wheels actually hits the metal there.  I've done it a few times and literally have never seen sharpie remaining regardless of the number of cycles.

I've not done any microscopic analysis, but I tend to use 6 cycles when switching hollows.

I can't come up with any reason that 5/8 Fire to 3/4 Fire should have given you more bite.  I've done that same switch and not experienced that... My experience was what you'd expect... A little less bite and a more concerted effort needed to get onto your edge with the 3/4 Fire vs. the 5/8 Fire.  I suppose maybe the 3/4 Fire ring without enough passes may have skinny-ed up the "fangs" on either side while leaving the center of the runner 'deep'?  Just a guess.  I would run more cycles and re-test.

Mark

[rh71el2 3]

 

3 hours ago, marka said:

I suppose maybe the 3/4 Fire ring without enough passes may have skinny-ed up the "fangs" on either side while leaving the center of the runner 'deep'?  Just a guess.  I would run more cycles and re-test.

I've done 2 more passes (total 4 each skate) and will test this afternoon.  But I've been thinking more logically about this.  If I was on 5/8, the hollow would be deeper than when I apply a new sharpening of 3/4. That 3/4 pass or two, if it doesn't reach down to the current hollow of 5/8, will effectively just make the 2 edges flatter & wider than it was. And that's why I was feeling more bite.

Edited January 4, 2022 by rh71el2

[VegasHockey 1280]

18 hours ago, rh71el2 said:

How many passes to change your sharpening? I used the sharpie method and after 1 pass it was completely gone so that's unreliable IMO. I'm trying to change from 5/8 fire to 3/4 fire (more glide). I did 2 passes each skate and it actually felt waaay sharper while skating than 5/8 and even when I used 1/2 fire in the past. Lots of leg fatigue in a game. Maybe it's some crazy in between because I didn't do enough passes?

If the sharpie is gone then you are making full contact with the steel.

This however would change if going from a flatter hollow to a more aggressive hollow 3/4 FIRE -> 5/8 FIRE, for example. This is because the new hollow is deeper than the old hollow. Going in the opposite direction 5/8" FIRE -> 3/4" FIRE once the marker is gone you have removed the old hollow entirely. 

Not sure why the 3/4" FIRE felt more sharpen than the 5/8" FIRE. Maybe you rolled the edge when honing or something...

[marka 526]

Howdy,

56 minutes ago, PBH said:

If the sharpie is gone then you are making full contact with the steel.

I've tried this enough times that until someone posts high speed video or something I'm not going to believe that this is true.  I've literally never seen sharpie left over after a cycle.

I think its WAY more likely that the sparks/swarf from the grinding is sandblasting away the sharpie long before the wheel actually grinds the steel.

Mark