Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[stevebalchunas 32]

8 hours ago, Chadd said:

The two guys I've seen both had dull spots along the blade. 

And you're 100% positive those skates had not be skated on? 

If they had not been skated on, sounds like they may not have had an edge before, and then didn't run enough cycles to completely remove the entire bad edge. Did you come to a similar conclusion?

[Hills 712]

Quote from another forum:

"Thanks for the follow-up question. I love the Sparx. I am getting a consistent cut every time I use it. The only thing that I do now that I didn't for the first month is use a SweetStick for 2 passes after I debur the sharpening. "

They should not be doing that right? Isn't a SweetStick terrible and should only be used as a last resort?

[IPv6Freely 2093]

1 hour ago, Hills said:

Quote from another forum:

"Thanks for the follow-up question. I love the Sparx. I am getting a consistent cut every time I use it. The only thing that I do now that I didn't for the first month is use a SweetStick for 2 passes after I debur the sharpening. "

They should not be doing that right? Isn't a SweetStick terrible and should only be used as a last resort?

Yea, those things are horrible. They work in a pinch but definitely zero reason to use them after a fresh cut. 

Only thing I can think of is the guy is on the wrong hollow for him and is trying to compensate, like the guys who rub their blades on the bench door threshold after a fresh skate. 

We had a guy on a previous team that swore up and down that the sweetstick was as good as a sharpening. Heh.

[stevebalchunas 32]

3 hours ago, Hills said:

Quote from another forum:

"Thanks for the follow-up question. I love the Sparx. I am getting a consistent cut every time I use it. The only thing that I do now that I didn't for the first month is use a SweetStick for 2 passes after I debur the sharpening. "

They should not be doing that right? Isn't a SweetStick terrible and should only be used as a last resort?

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely not recommended, you're essentially ruining the edge/bite angle that you just put on the skate. Not sure where that idea would have come from, would you be able to point me to the comment/commenter? The sweetstick is amazing at repairing a full blown edge on the bench during the game if you don't have extra steel though. The AnR version with the stone on the other end is great to work out the burr and then fold that edge back over. 

[colins 246]

2 hours ago, stevebalchunas said:

Definitely not recommended, you're essentially ruining the edge/bite angle that you just put on the skate. Not sure where that idea would have come from, would you be able to point me to the comment/commenter? The sweetstick is amazing at repairing a full blown edge on the bench during the game if you don't have extra steel though. The AnR version with the stone on the other end is great to work out the burr and then fold that edge back over. 

 

He's a goalie. They're all crazy, that explains it. :-)

From google:

http://goaliestore.com/board/forum/equipment/equipment-reviews/3261051-sparx-skate-sharpener-initial-impressions

[jimmy 194]

On 10/18/2016 at 0:15 AM, Chadd said:

I know two people that are already trying to steal business from the local shop by using one of these. Ethics aside, the results have been less than impressive

Yup,their always will be scum that do this.  Still, I'd love to be there when one of their "customers" comes in with a huge nick or destroyed edge and they have to use up their whole $50 wheel to get it out.

[colins 246]

1 hour ago, jimmy said:

Yup,their always will be scum that do this.  Still, I'd love to be there when one of their "customers" comes in with a huge nick or destroyed edge and they have to use up their whole $50 wheel to get it out.

 

Sparx has a cross cut ring (called the X-Grind) for taking down deep nicks. At the end of the day, the Sparx is just another machine - one that lowers the $$ entry point for quality sharpenings.

A buddy of mine has a Blademaster 850 (great machine) in his garage, and I used to bring my skates to him. I consider him an expert level sharpener, simply because he knows his machine well and his attention to detail is very high. I don't consider him scum just because he sharpens skates for a fairly large group of his friends and charges a nominal fee for his time & materials. 

As I was debating between buying my own Blademaster 850 or a Blackstone I came across the Sparx Kickstarter, and the single biggest advantage to me was the ease of use and lack of mess. My buddy's garage door and ceiling is full of steel dust - you simply can't use a traditional machine like the Blademaster indoors without some type of dust collection setup. You should also wear a mask to avoid breathing the stuff in.

My Sparx sits in my rec room and I can literally sharpen a pair of my sons' skates as they are packing up their gear to head to the rink for a game/practice with no fuss and no mess. I still pay attention to the condition of the blades, the number of passes, and my honing requirements. And I'm still learning - the Sparx doesn't have a whole lot of variables to mess with, but the ring height, position/direction of the skate in the clamp, and the number of passes are all in play to get that 'perfect mirror finish'. I've joked with the Sparx guys that I'm developing an ability to 'hear' a good final pass based on the pitch of the ring across the whole length of the blade, and based on the sound deciding whether or not I need 1 more pass to achieve perfection.

This machine is a game changer. I don't intend to use my Sparx to steal business from any local shops. It's a funny thing though - once people find out you have the ability to sharpen skates and the quality is as good as it is, it's hard to prevent the skates from coming to you. My son keeps bringing his teammate's skates home in his bag after practice and the $5 he collects goes into a Sparx jar to pay for the next set of rings I have to order.

 

colins

[RickDC 24]

2 hours ago, jimmy said:

Yup,their always will be scum that do this.  Still, I'd love to be there when one of their "customers" comes in with a huge nick or destroyed edge and they have to use up their whole $50 wheel to get it out.

Honestly, I take offence to this... We have a couple of hockey stores in the area, and I bought a Blackstone X01 primarily to do my own skates a couple of years ago.. Over time, I've got more and more people requesting my sharpening because I take my time and check absolutely that 3 areas of the blade are completely level, there are no waves, each edge is consistent, there's the correct hollow and sides are deburred. I've had bad sharpenings before, I've given myself a bad sharpening because I didn't check my work early on. But I never made that mistake again. I take great pride in my work and the fact that my team-mates and neighbours trust me to do theirs, backs that up.

Being called "scum" because I choose to do that, and not do it for the money (simply I find it relaxing to do as not as stressful as running 3 successful businesses), is extremely derogatory and immature. 

[Chadd 916]

14 hours ago, stevebalchunas said:

And you're 100% positive those skates had not be skated on? 

If they had not been skated on, sounds like they may not have had an edge before, and then didn't run enough cycles to completely remove the entire bad edge. Did you come to a similar conclusion?

There was no damage to the blade to indicate a major chip or anything like that. Frankly, I didn't particularly care if it was user error or an issue with the machine. Either way, it resulted in a bad sharpening. 

 

4 hours ago, jimmy said:

Yup,their always will be scum that do this.  Still, I'd love to be there when one of their "customers" comes in with a huge nick or destroyed edge and they have to use up their whole $50 wheel to get it out.

More than any other hobby I've been around, hockey is filled with people that are looking to make a buck. More often than not, it's a matter of principle and/or not wanting to spend $1.50 that leads to that pursuit.

[bootsmagee 15]

8 minutes ago, Chadd said:

There was no damage to the blade to indicate a major chip or anything like that. Frankly, I didn't particularly care if it was user error or an issue with the machine. Either way, it resulted in a bad sharpening. 

 

More than any other hobby I've been around, hockey is filled with people that are looking to make a buck. More often than not, it's a matter of principle and/or not wanting to spend $1.50 that leads to that pursuit.

I felt pretty similar about the guy  behind the counter before getting the Sparx and doing it myself.  Now every time I sharpen my skates they feel exactly the way I like them.

Really?  The hockey community I'm surrounded by is mostly filled with people trying to get better at hockey, drink beer, blow off steam, or some combination of the three.

[Chadd 916]

10 minutes ago, bootsmagee said:

I felt pretty similar about the guy  behind the counter before getting the Sparx and doing it myself.  Now every time I sharpen my skates they feel exactly the way I like them.

Really?  The hockey community I'm surrounded by is mostly filled with people trying to get better at hockey, drink beer, blow off steam, or some combination of the three.

If you're using one of those, you aren't doing it yourself. That's like saying you "cooked dinner" when all you did was put something in the microwave. That said, glad you're happy with it. I have no beef with the company, you or anyone that uses them on their own skates. Consistently having edges the same every time you play is a great luxury, it's one less thing to worry about during a game.

You live in a much better area than I do. A very large percentage of people around here are always working some scam or looking for a way to screw over someone else. I've seen it with a fair number of people on this site as well over the years. I have hundreds, if not a thousand emails and PMs complaining that we wouldn't let them promote their website, book, blog. company, etc... and do it for free.

[colins 246]

16 hours ago, Chadd said:

If you're using one of those, you aren't doing it yourself. That's like saying you "cooked dinner" when all you did was put something in the microwave.

 

That's not a fair comment. The skills required to operate a Sparx are certainly less than a traditional machine, which is a good thing. But you still have to know what you are doing.

It doesn't matter how fool proof something is - there's got to be folks with Sparx machines that are not paying attention to alignment, ring height, skate positioning in the clamp, the required number of passes and honing technique and yes - they'd end up with imperfect edges. That's not a knock against the machine, it's a knock against human nature and folks who pay attention to detail vs. those who don't.

I know of an 'expert' sharpener (guy's been at it for years, also does equipment repairs) who uses multiple Cag One machines in his shop. Easy to use, right? Just lay the skate on it. Well he doesn't bother to use an edge checker (slows down output, he's very busy), and when one of his machines goes out of alignment, a whole crew of folks go through there with uneven edges on one skate until someone calls it out.

Again, the Sparx is just another machine. It makes the process simpler and lowers the cost to entry, but it's not 100% fool proof. But because it exists,  a thousand new sharpeners are now active across North America, and I imagine a similar (or higher since the machine is easier to use) percentage of those new sharpeners are good at what they do vs. the ones that existed before Sparx.

colins

Edited October 20, 2016 by colins

[stevebalchunas 32]

20 hours ago, jimmy said:

Still, I'd love to be there when one of their "customers" comes in with a huge nick or destroyed edge and they have to use up their whole $50 wheel to get it out.

 

Thanks, Jimmy. That's a pretty nice thing to wish for our customers. Glad to see you're keeping an open mind to all this. Again, we'd love to hear any constructive criticism you may have about the product.

[jimmy 194]

3 hours ago, stevebalchunas said:

Thanks, Jimmy. That's a pretty nice thing to wish for our customers. Glad to see you're keeping an open mind to all this. Again, we'd love to hear any constructive criticism you may have about the product.

 

21 hours ago, RickDC said:

Honestly, I take offence to this... We have a couple of hockey stores in the area, and I bought a Blackstone X01 primarily to do my own skates a couple of years ago.. Over time, I've got more and more people requesting my sharpening because I take my time and check absolutely that 3 areas of the blade are completely level, there are no waves, each edge is consistent, there's the correct hollow and sides are deburred. I've had bad sharpenings before, I've given myself a bad sharpening because I didn't check my work early on. But I never made that mistake again. I take great pride in my work and the fact that my team-mates and neighbours trust me to do theirs, backs that up.

Being called "scum" because I choose to do that, and not do it for the money (simply I find it relaxing to do as not as stressful as running 3 successful businesses), is extremely derogatory and immature. 

The scum part is running a business under the table.  I have no problem with home sharpeners who do it legally.

[stevebalchunas 32]

26 minutes ago, jimmy said:

 

The scum part is running a business under the table.  I have no problem with home sharpeners who do it legally.

 

Sorry if I jumped to that conclusion on you. I hear ya on that part, although that's about as hard to police as a curbside lemonade stand.

I think if you do a great job, converse with your customers, teach them about hollows and profiles, and are consistent, you're going to keep them with you.

Poor quality (which can be found around just about every corner these days) is only going to drive more folks away from the big box stores now. In my dream world, the Sparx forces all shops to either do pro-quality sharpenings all the time or give it up. Either way, I think the consumer is going to benifit from all of this one way or another. 

[DarkStar50 679]

How does Sparx dad work around a bent blade?

[darkhors 88]

So I look at this argument going on about "Home Sharpeners" vs. retailers in a different light. I also play/coach high school tennis and have been stringing racquets for years. I started just like many stringers, getting my own and learning the craft. There are many types of machines out there, some of which make it easier for stringers to do their job (i.e. electronic stringers). Just because they're easier to use, doesn't mean you can be bad at the craft and not pay attention to what you're doing. You still need to make sure the strings aren't slipping in the clamps, the weave is correct, you've started in the correct spots and your tensions are accurate. The same goes with this machine.

As for the "home sharpener" taking business... that's called capitalism, folks. If you don't provide a good sharpening all the time or people don't live in an area that has a lot of stores with good sharpeners around, those people are going to seek out better options. I don't have a Sparx, but I'm heavily considering one if my youngest decides to start playing. If people start asking me to do it for them, I'll give them the same speech I give to the people I string for. I'm not trying to take business away from the local shop, but if you feel this is a better experience for you, I'll gladly do it.

Are there people who will try to take advantage of this? Yes, there always are. However, most people are doing it to provide a better service or convenience to people they already know. If they're not doing a good job with it or it's not what they're looking for, they aren't going to continue to come back.

Lastly, remember how many of you sharpeners started doing this as a hobby or interest and then turned it into a career. There are plenty of people who are fortunate enough to have a shop and do this for a living, but many people like to learn a craft and will provide their services to a small subsection of the population for a nominal fee because they enjoy it, not because they're making $5 a sharpening. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by darkhors

[marka 526]

Howdy,

For me, the Sparx machine seems like a great thing for those who need or want it, but I have to assume there are a hell of a lot of folks like me out there and I'm pretty firmly in the camp of "I'm reasonably happy with most sharpenings I get and I can pay for a hell of a lot of $6 sharpenings before I get to the cost to buy and maintain a Sparx machine".

Mark

[IPv6Freely 2093]

13 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

For me, the Sparx machine seems like a great thing for those who need or want it, but I have to assume there are a hell of a lot of folks like me out there and I'm pretty firmly in the camp of "I'm reasonably happy with most sharpenings I get and I can pay for a hell of a lot of $6 sharpenings before I get to the cost to buy and maintain a Sparx machine".

Mark

I'm envious of your situation. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

9 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I'm envious of your situation. 

LOL.  Don't be.  There's every chance that I don't mind the sharpenings I get because I suck enough not to notice any issues.... :-)

Seriously, I've had a couple bad sharpenings and yeah that sucked.  So I'm a little more careful about who sharpens my stuff and I eyeball it some when I pick it up to look for really bad problems.  I also use standard sharpenings vs. FBV or whatever... If I wanted to use FBV / Fire then a Sparx would make more sense for my situation.

Mark

[stevebalchunas 32]

3 hours ago, DarkStar50 said:

How does Sparx dad work around a bent blade?

How do you work around bent blades? 

Did you see my post on page 7 of this thread with our bent blade research? If so, then what you're really asking is "How does anyone sharpen any blade?". And that answer is pretty simple. Probably the same way you do. 

At the end of the day, we never want to adjust our clamp OR your holder to even up the toe or heel if the middle 4"-5" of the blade is straight. If we did, we'd end up throwing off that middle section (arguably the most used/important) just to see a level edge at the toe or heel. We're pretty confident saying a few things:

1. We all have control over the part of the blade in the clamp, so we need to do our best to keep that level. 

2. Most, if not all blades are bent. 

3. You can make a mild to severe bend better, but we doubt anyone's getting any blade to be perfect (our engineers would say it's next to impossible and that even if you did, you probably wouldn't have the tools to know it's flat). Blades with </= .003" of bend, can appear to sit flat on a flat surface, the eye isn't going to always be able to catch it.

I feel a lot more comfortable answering this now than I would have 2 years ago without the testing and engineers to help back it all up.   

[stevebalchunas 32]

2 hours ago, darkhors said:

As for the "home sharpener" taking business... that's called capitalism, folks. If you don't provide a good sharpening all the time or people don't live in an area that has a lot of stores with good sharpeners around, those people are going to seek out better options.

 

Amen haha. Power to the people!

[marka 526]

Howdy,

2 hours ago, stevebalchunas said:

How do you work around bent blades? 

Did you see my post on page 7 of this thread with our bent blade research? If so, then what you're really asking is "How does anyone sharpen any blade?". And that answer is pretty simple. Probably the same way you do. 

At the end of the day, we never want to adjust our clamp OR your holder to even up the toe or heel if the middle 4"-5" of the blade is straight. If we did, we'd end up throwing off that middle section (arguably the most used/important) just to see a level edge at the toe or heel. We're pretty confident saying a few things:

1. We all have control over the part of the blade in the clamp, so we need to do our best to keep that level. 

2. Most, if not all blades are bent. 

3. You can make a mild to severe bend better, but we doubt anyone's getting any blade to be perfect (our engineers would say it's next to impossible and that even if you did, you probably wouldn't have the tools to know it's flat). Blades with </= .003" of bend, can appear to sit flat on a flat surface, the eye isn't going to always be able to catch it.

I feel a lot more comfortable answering this now than I would have 2 years ago without the testing and engineers to help back it all up.   

 

Re: bent blades, wouldn't a sufficiently stiff clamp fix this, at least in terms of keeping the center of the stone in the center of the blade?

My only real experience with this was buying some used skates for my son.  The monkey at the Play it Again store "sharpened" them before I talked with him (he wouldn't have had the chance after I talked with him, given that he didn't have any idea what radius of hollow he was using or anything else beyond "my manager sets the machine up every now and then and tells us not to adjust anything".  lol!)  Anyway, in addition to other issues, the blade was bent a bit and that made the poor sharpening even worse.

To fix this, I removed the steel and then basically just played with various shims and pressure on the blade on the bench until it was "more straight" (I would be quite surprised if it were _actually_ straight to the thousandth or whatever).  Then I got my local rink guy to sharpen it and it came out looking & skating reasonable.

Anyway, through that I learned that at least those blades moved fairly easily.  I would assume that most subtle bends could fairly easily be eliminated _during the sharpening process_ by a sufficiently stiff blade clamp.  And that should produce good edges, even if when you remove it from the blade clamp the bend comes right back.

Somewhat related assumption, my guess is that as long as the edges are consistent, a minor bend in a blade isn't going to be noticeable when you're skating.

 

Curious about your thoughts though!

Mark

[DarkStar50 679]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 11:29 PM, Chadd said:

If you're using one of those, you aren't doing it yourself. That's like saying you "cooked dinner" when all you did was put something in the microwave. That said, glad you're happy with it. I have no beef with the company, you or anyone that uses them on their own skates. Consistently having edges the same every time you play is a great luxury, it's one less thing to worry about during a game.

You live in a much better area than I do. A very large percentage of people around here are always working some scam or looking for a way to screw over someone else. I've seen it with a fair number of people on this site as well over the years. I have hundreds, if not a thousand emails and PMs complaining that we wouldn't let them promote their website, book, blog. company, etc... and do it for free.

Isn't this basically what this entire thread for Sparx is ?? Free promotion of a hockey product? Why is this particular thread allowed on MSH? If the thread was on Sparx website, that makes all the sense in the world. Here, not so much.

[Stewie 721]

22 minutes ago, DarkStar50 said:

Isn't this basically what this entire thread for Sparx is ?? Free promotion of a hockey product? Why is this particular thread allowed on MSH? If the thread was on Sparx website, that makes all the sense in the world. Here, not so much.

they didn't even start the thread. If you want the post removed just because a manufacturer has added input or answered questions, then half of the posts on the site will have to be removed out of fairness. Do you make this same argument when a stick manufacturer answers questions about its product? its not like they are constantly bumping the thread, sending out promotions, or specifically even telling people to buy a sparx. they have simply been answering questions/addressing concerns.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Stewie