Begginer adult league body checking and retaliation

[Diablo34 17]

Hello again everyone! First off I'd like to thank everyone for the very helpful advice I received on my first post. But now I have another question along the same lines. My league (because of coarse it's beer league) is. Non-check and thanks to you guys I quickly learned that over physical play from an ex college football player is not acceptable. While my season hasn't started yet my teammates and I did a little pick up scrimmage against another team in our division. And one hot head on there team thought It would be cool to smash one of our smallest players against the boards. The refs didn't see it. But as far as real hockey goes it's was a clean yet over aggressive check. Me as the biggest and probably most aggressive person on our team was very up set because of coarse this is a non check league and the person who was hit was one of our best skaters and snipers. He is also our team captain. In the unwritten rules of hockey I felt like I should have dropped my gloves and beat the hell out of him or at the very least give him a taste of the boards like he did to my teammate. I didn't do any of this however because I know how bad it would make me look based on the responses of my last post. What do you guys think of this? What would you have done? And do you think I did the right thing? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Fighting in beer league makes you look stupid - always. 

I think you also have a horribly skewed vision of what the “unwritten” rules are for beer league.

[Diablo34 17]

1 minute ago, IPv6Freely said:

Fighting in beer league makes you look stupid - always. 

Exactly what I thought thank you

[chk hrd 164]

Dropping the gloves is the last thing you ever want to do if you want to keep playing hockey and fighting on ice isn't like fighting on a solid surface. If you don't have the balance or are strong on your skates it's easy to get put down. Best just not to go there Taking a number and lining them up is an option, but again, if you are a weak skater most of the times you end up on the wrong end. What usually happens is you go for payback then they go for payback and it makes for a crappy game because you never know when a cheap shot is coming. This is why I feel the beginner and lower levels are more dangerous than the high sped, high skill levels. At the higher levels players don't have anything to prove and have been through the hitting and grind of the game. At the lower levels the players, especially newbies, haven't got the game figured out and think this is what they are suppose to do.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Not having been there and seen it in person, its really hard to give advice.

The only way I would ever get involved in a "real fight" would be if I was involved unwillingly or if I thought someone was going to get injured for real.  And in both of those cases, my goal would be to shove people apart / delay / whatever so that cooler heads could prevail.  That has only happened one time in 1.5 years since I started playing, on the order of 3 or 4 times a week.  And in that situation, the hothead's own teammate tackled him before I could and then the hothead got permanently barred.  Note, btw, that the hothead in this case was a guy who'd felt he got wronged and dropped the gloves.  Sound familiar?

I play in D leagues around here now, one step up from the "complete beginner" leagues.  Its still quite beginner though.  In the (rare) situations where there's been a hothead throwing his weight around, I've found talking to the hothead's teammates or the ref to be the most effective thing.  Playing the hothead more physically (including once lining him up for a cheap shot of my own) has never helped.  In your case the ref didn't see the hit, but he/she can certainly be put on the alert.  Also around here, most players do not want to be playing with a hothead like that on their team since it turns the game into a shit show, so they'll work some to get them to calm down.  Be the adult.

One other note... In my experience in beginner leagues, most times stuff like this is done out of ignorance / lack of skill than anything else.  I've seen guys basically screw up skating and wipe someone out.  I've seen guys screw up and skate full bore into someone / something and wipe themselves out.  Its been much rarer, but I've also seen a guy who hacked and slashed like crazy because he thought that was how you played.  Again though I wasn't there to see what happened in your case.  My advice is to give people the benefit of the doubt, try and talk to them/their teammates/the ref about it (calmly!), and in general turn the other cheek.

At the end of the day, non-check hockey is still a contact sport and you should expect the occasional time you are going to get knocked on your ass.  Its just not supposed to be the other guy's goal and it should be reasonably rare.  :-)

Mark

[chk hrd 164]

I have been putting some thought into this and I really think you have the wrong perception of the game. Hockey is not about fighting or monster hits like so many people think. In pro leagues and juniors, fighting has a purpose. There is a book called The Code that explains fighting, the reasons and the mentality of it. It is not fun and hurts like hell, win or loose. When a pro talks about loosing sleep, getting physically sick or having a lot of anxiety about going to another city and what will inevitably happen you know it's serious business. A hard, clean hit is something to see, but it's not the norm. When I coached I always told the players that a check is meant to separate the player from the puck, not the head from the player. Once you start playing the game and watching more hockey you realize the grace, skill, speed and beauty of the game. Go in with the right mindset and the players and the game will accept and embrace you. Go in with a meathead mindset and it can be a tough lesson to learn.  

[puckpilot 312]

In my experience, what you see happening in the NHL is for the most part NOT what you find in beer league. As mentioned above sometimes things can be attributed to ignorance, lack of skill, and just a general misunderstand of what playing hockey is supposed to be. Now I'm sure, general expectations and unwritten rules of conduct varies from from country to country, region to region, but if you boil it down, IMHO, it's a bit of common sense. Treat the situation like real life not the fantasy of the NHL. There are not millions of dollars at stake. There are not cameras capturing everything to figure out who really wronged who and what really happened. And everyone needs to go to work in the morning.

Considering this was supposed to be a friendly scrimmage, one of the simplest thing to do IMHO would be to skate by the guy and say in a friendly way something like, "Hey man, take it easy." Doing stuff like that and seeing how they respond allows you to determine if there really needs to be some push back or if it's just a misunderstanding or accident.

To give you some perspective. One time, I got elbowed in the head. In the sock of the moment, I reflexively called him an A-hole. But when I got back to the bench and calmed down, I realised I wasn't completely sure if it was intentional, because it didn't have that feel. It so happens this team filmed every game, so we can put together a "high-light" package for the year-ender and have a good laugh at how much we suck. I got a good look at what happened after the game, and it turns out it was just incidental contact, and because I'm short and the other guy was big, I got bumped by his elbow. So I kind of over reacted. 

Another time, I was battling on the boards and a big guy came in and put me on my ass. When I got back to the bench, one of my teammates asked about the guy getting a little rough. His tone indicated he would do something about it if it was dirty. I laughed and told him it was just a friendly bump. The guy was just big, and I was small, and it probably looked a lot more dramatic than what it really was. Sure the guy meant to put me on my ass, but I could tell, they weren't out to destroy me. They just wanted the puck, and that's fair game in my books. They were playing hockey, not NHL seek and destroy.

I'm not saying this his how it should be done, or that my experiences translate universally. They're just the way I see and deal with things, from a 40+ year old guy who's played for most of their life. I'm sure other's see it differently. I'm sure there will be a time where you may have to stand up for yourself or a teammate, but generally, those are few and far. So play the odds. It's more likely someone made a mistake, and just needs a friendly reminder, than it is they were intentionally out to injure, and needs a good shot in the head. 

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

The one thing I noticed while playing in a lower division this past week, was that there was A LOT more incidental contact just based on players' inability to skate.  A goalie collided with a player behind the net and got stunned.  And a guy put himself into the boards and took a bit to get back up.  There were a few ugly collisions in the neutral zone.  I'm definitely more aware of the fact that I'm more likely to be injured at this level than playing on my other team, five divisions up from this one. (Sadly, I'm a player that plays at the level of the game itself, so I'm no superstar!)

If your teammate wasn't injured, and it wasn't completely and obviously intentional, just let it slide.

[FlyChicaga 21]

I had to laugh at this thread, because a couple weeks ago I laid a guy out with an open ice hit. In a coed charity tournament.

Now see, this guy was like 6'4", 225 lbs, and hit a WOMAN in the crease because she whacked at the puck while their goalie was trying to cover it. So needless to say, as a defenceman, when I saw the opportunity to smoke him, I did.

Other than a situation like that, the hacking, whacking, hitting, etc., in beer league is annoying.

[chk hrd 164]

And that is why women get away with murder in beer league. Her whacking at the puck is no different than a man her size whacking at the puck. I've played against a lot of women who will take advantage of it if the refs let them. Would you have smoked the player if it was a man? Co-Ed hockey or not, as soon as you put the gear on you are a hockey player and subject to the same rules and play as everyone else.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Everyone wears the same pads, and I just don't have the time or desire to check for a ponytail first. 

We have a woman in our league that draws ridiculous amounts of penalties because while she's pretty good with the puck and scores plenty of goals, she also goes flying if she's bumped slightly or feels any slight tug. It's kind of embarrassing watching her, to be honest. And she gets the call every single time. I really like to think it's not because she's a girl, but realistically I'm sure that plays more than a minor part in it. 

Laying out a guy in a charity game just makes YOU look like the idiot. 

[psulion22 402]

In my experience, the players in beer league that play like they see in the NHL are the most dangerous.  Typically they are newer players that haven't played real competitive hockey and don't understand the "code" or the dynamics of the game.  They are those who "play to the whistle" and end up crashing into a player or goalie causing an injury, whacking at a covered puck well after it's covered/whistled, and other douchebaggery because they are out of control being overly aggressive.  They are the ones that retaliate to a hook or good defensive play with a slash or worse, a punch, because they see Crosby do it.  They are the ones that tend to be reckless with their stick, whether it's slashes, trips, hooks, or cross checks, because they don't have the skating ability or hockey IQ to make a good play.  They often engage players from behind.  And more often than anyone else, they do highly dangerous things that can seriously hurt another player because they don't know it's not ok.  Slew foots, boarding/checks from behind, intentional trips if a player gets away, head targeting, intentional checking, etc.

[shoeshine boy 242]

there are few things sadder in this world than a beginner league/player hockey fight. in your mind you'll be thinking you look like Ryan Reaves but it won't even be close. the balance required to fight on ice skates is a lot harder than you probably realize. not only that but it's not a good idea to get a goon reputation before your first "real" game. playing in any league is a privilege not a right. some leagues don't care because they only want your money but if you behaved that way in my league you would be asked not to come back.

[chk hrd 164]

If somebody does something you take offense to, give them a little whack (not a big two handed chop) on the side of the shin pads as they skate away letting them know you didn't care for what they did. Most experienced players will look back at you, exchange pleasantries and keep skating back to the play because they know it's just a little warning that they did something you didn't like. They've had it done to them and have done it to others a thousand times. Most newbies take that as a challenge and will stop and want to start something which usually ends up in them getting a penalty. I'd much rather be put on a PP and score as a FU than goon it up, take a penalty and look like a big dummy.

[clarkiestooth 235]

21 hours ago, Diablo34 said:

 ..... and the person who was hit was one of our best skaters and snipers. He is also our team captain. In the unwritten rules of hockey I felt like I should have dropped my gloves and beat the hell out of him or at the very least give him a taste of the boards like he did to my teammate. 

 

Beginner leagues do not have snipers and do not have "unwritten rules" (most probably aren't even familiar with the written rules). Any deviation from learning to skate/pass/shoot and have fun looks idiotic in the eyes those who have played the game. 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Every response seems to be spot on.

For the ladies: you play like a lady, you'll be treated like a lady. You play like 'one of the boys,' you'll be treated as such haha. Sounds harsh but its fair. Any woman should be allowed to play men's beer league. Men, in return, shouldn't be punished for playing against a woman(s).

As for you, or anyone else, wanting retribution: remember what day and age we live in. It seems that everything needs to be settled in court. Fancy this: you try to get back at him and in the act, you break his arm. Now we go from 'gooning it up,' to assault and dealing with the law. It sounds heavy but it could happen to any of us if we react outside the confines of hockey. Just something else to chew on...

[kesamj 6]

It's rec league, ffs. There's always going to be little hacks and shoves but dropping the gloves? No. Just, no. 

I'll second the point regarding the increasingly litigious nature of our society. "Payback" could very easily bite you in the ass. Should you actually hurt someone, a penalty or suspension would be the least of your worries.

In my experiences, the "has-beens" conduct themselves respectably. It's the "never-weres" that you've got to watch out for.

 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I’m honestly a bit disappointed with myself for not having the idiot who broke my ankle in rookie league charged with assault. I didn’t want to be “that guy”. To be honest if I didn’t have a remote computer job at the time I likely would have been much more likely to.

 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

7 hours ago, psulion22 said:

They are those who "play to the whistle" and end up crashing into a player or goalie causing an injury, whacking at a covered puck well after it's covered/whistled, and other douchebaggery because they are out of control being overly aggressive.

Man, this couldn’t be more accurate. Anyone who says “play to the whistle” is one of the over aggressive idiots, because that phrase is never uttered by somebody who didn’t do something stupid seconds prior.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Diablo34, where are you from / where do you play?

Just curious.  Someone mentioned that beginner leagues don't have snipers... I would tend to agree but I also know that where I live (Youngstown, OH) there's a pretty small population of hockey players so the local league is just A and B levels... B is sometimes referred to as "beginner", but in comparison to the Pittsburgh area (where I also play), there are guys in that "beginner" league that would be say C-ish level in the (common there) A to E levels.  Its just a natural result of a smaller population.  So in that case, the "Beginner League" ends up with some people that actually played in highschool, etc.

I wasn't sure if perhaps it was that way in your area as well.

Mark

[JoeyJ0506 192]

On 7/9/2017 at 6:48 PM, Diablo34 said:

Me as the biggest and probably most aggressive person on our team was very up set because of coarse this is a non check league and the person who was hit was one of our best skaters and snipers. He is also our team captain. In the unwritten rules of hockey I felt like I should have dropped my gloves and beat the hell out of him or at the very least give him a taste of the boards like he did to my teammate.

This is the garbage that is starting to make rec league unbearable for me and a couple of my buddies. The amount of times I have heard some jabronie use "It's Hockey Man!" as an excuse for some asinine behavior is is becoming nauseating. No, hockey is about skating, shooting, puck movement, flow of the game, pretty plays, speed, teamwork, etc. That other garbage is a neanderthal running around with a club in their hands and knives strapped to their feet. I'm tired of getting slashes and hacks to my hands and backs of my legs because I turned the net and pulled away from the guy that was forechecking. I'm sick of getting blasted from behind by someone, not engaged in the play, during a puck battle on the wall. 

A team we played against Saturday night had a team full of idiots that wanted to play the body instead of the puck on the boards, hit guys from behind, and slash/hack/hook/crosscheck every chance they could get. I was proud of my team for just skating away from pretty much everything, because retaliating would have turned it into even more of a gong show than it already was. EVERY TIME they got called for a penalty some iteration of "You have to be F@!KING kidding me, this is hockey, not ballet" got screamed at the refs or the player that had just been fouled. Half their team skated off the ice before handshakes (Because they were butt-hurt), more proof of how immature and idiotic they were. 

There is NO place in adult hockey for barbaric retribution and goon behavior. Almost everyone is getting up for work the next morning. Let the refs handle it, and if they don't just skate away from it. Doing anything will only result in the situation escalating. Learn what hockey is, and curb your aggressive instincts to hit and fight immediately, hockey isn't big/dirty hits and fighting, that garbage ruins it for everyone at the rec level. 

[shoeshine boy 242]

16 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I’m honestly a bit disappointed with myself for not having the idiot who broke my ankle in rookie league charged with assault. I didn’t want to be “that guy”. To be honest if I didn’t have a remote computer job at the time I likely would have been much more likely to.

 

we had a guy in our beginner league that broke his ankle and tried to make a big deal about it to the league board. he wanted the guy tossed for life and was threatening an arrest/lawsuit.

turns out someone was videoing the game and all that happened was he tripped over the other guy's stick and his ankle merely turned the wrong way. 

[Diablo34 17]

17 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Diablo34, where are you from / where do you play?

Just curious.  Someone mentioned that beginner leagues don't have snipers... I would tend to agree but I also know that where I live (Youngstown, OH) there's a pretty small population of hockey players so the local league is just A and B levels... B is sometimes referred to as "beginner", but in comparison to the Pittsburgh area (where I also play), there are guys in that "beginner" league that would be say C-ish level in the (common there) A to E levels.  Its just a natural result of a smaller population.  So in that case, the "Beginner League" ends up with some people that actually played in highschool, etc.

I wasn't sure if perhaps it was that way in your area as well.

Mark

I live in Southern California climate wise not the most popular for ice hockey but A LOT of the sons of players on the ducks play in private high schools in the surranding area. As far as "begginer leagues don't have snipers" I was just trying to convey that this particular person was one of our better shooters and I just wanted to protect him because he did end up laying in the ice for a while

[Diablo34 17]

Hello everyone I just want to clarify a few things because I am really just trying to LEARN.  So when games do start I have al the knowledge I will need. To all the people saying I don't understand the rules of hockey: I do! I have watched and been an active season pass holder for 9 years. I played when I was little and I have a huge love and respect for the game. Yes, I understand that the "dropping the gloves" comment was a bit much and believe me I know how bad it would look. (During off seasons of football I coached flag football teams who tried to be aggressive and it always looked bad) I just really would like to know what the community would do in this situation. Because Iikensomeone above has said playing is a "prvilage" and picking up the sport again has made me very greatful. I just know since I was JUSTIFIABLY roasted in my first post about being an enforcer and how unacceptable that is; if someone where to do that with malicious intent on one of my teammates it brings out the protectiveness in me. Thank you for all of you who kept your critissison constructive. And to those who took a more hostile approach I understand why you feel that way. I'm only trying to learn.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

2 hours ago, shoeshine boy said:

we had a guy in our beginner league that broke his ankle and tried to make a big deal about it to the league board. he wanted the guy tossed for life and was threatening an arrest/lawsuit.

turns out someone was videoing the game and all that happened was he tripped over the other guy's stick and his ankle merely turned the wrong way. 

I got tackled from behind and the ankle twisted under me. I tried to get up but wasn’t able to so I had to just wait for him to stop punching the back of my head.