VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[JunkyardAthletic 505]

11 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Not to sound like a primadonna, and I am sure people will flame me for saying this, but when you order custom skates that are specifically designed to fit a players foot you shouldn't need to "hack" solutions together. 

Yes, you indeed come off sounding like a primadonna.

NHL equipment managers "hack" solutions together for the best players in the world, day in and day out.  They all wear custom skates.  I've seen it for 20 years and it won't change anytime soon.  

Edited April 16, 2018 by JunkyardAthletic

[flip12 714]

2 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Yes, you still may have to.  Figure skates are prime examples of this.

Any measurement/casting/3d scan is static - your foot is dynamic.  It can't account for irritation/movement.  

Right on. I got the idea to mold the outward ankle flexion I wanted into my MLX from this Van Horne video on molding short track boots (last part of the video specifically):

 

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

2 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Just for perspective and to bring science into this.

Weight: 150 grams vs 124 grams 

Blade weight at full stride extension: 600 grams vs 496 grams

Average strides per game: 1000

Blade weight transferred per game: 600kg vs 496kg

600kg - 496kg = 104kg less weight transferred per game which equals 229lbs.

That's with comparing 26 grams of weight difference. Now imagine 200 grams.

I mean you should be calculating work and not some mass value multiplied by a frequency. So let's not get all high fivey yet.

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

But they're made the same way.  Everyone is still building up lasts at this point.  

All the scan is doing is giving them more detail.  Now, if it completely missed a spot on your foot, blame the scan.  But if it's not enough space and you have to create a punch, or it doesn't have enough padding and you have to add a Bunga pad, that's just a part of the breaking in/tweaking process.

 

I agree with you. I am saying it's a manufacturer oversight. Comfort pads have been built into hockey skate ankle areas for quite some time now. If anything, it seems every year those comfort pads get bigger. I have a demo pair of the new AS1 skates that I am testing and the comfort pads on them are quite large and plush. 

It just remindeds me of the Mako I vs Mako II debacle. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Nicholas G

[VegasHockey 1280]

34 minutes ago, Wolfpack_1986 said:

I mean you should be calculating work and not some mass value multiplied by a frequency. So let's not get all high fivey yet.

Work is a variable. I wanted to use static values. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

Yes, you indeed come off sounding like a primadonna.

NHL equipment managers "hack" solutions together for the best players in the world, day in and day out.  They all wear custom skates.  I've seen it for 20 years and it won't change anytime soon.  

Equipment managers typically hack fixes and occasionally make minor adjustments for players when they get new gear. Most of the time when a skate arrives from the manufacturer it's built pretty close to the players requested specification. You might need to punch an area or make minor modifications but I have yet to see an equipment managers add padding (comfort pads) to the top ankle area of a players skate. 

Again, to me, this is a design flaw. Something. That was just overlooked. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

3 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Equipment managers typically hack fixes and occasionally make minor adjustments for players when they get new gear. Most of the time when a skate arrives from the manufacturer it's built pretty close to the players requested specification. You might need to punch an area or make minor modifications but I have yet to see an equipment managers add padding (comfort pads) to the top ankle area of a players skate. 

Again, to me, this is a design flaw. Something. That was just overlooked. 

You're welcome to your opinion.

Please use the multi-quote feature. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

36 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

You might need to punch an area or make minor modifications but I have yet to see an equipment managers add padding (comfort pads) to the top ankle area of a players skate. 

 

I have.  Hell, I've seen an entire skate lined in lambswool.

[VegasHockey 1280]

Just now, JR Boucicaut said:

I have.  Hell, I've seen an entire skate lined in lambswool.

Now that is something I need to see! Haha

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Martin St. Louis.

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

1 hour ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I have.  Hell, I've seen an entire skate lined in lambswool.

That sounds awfully hot.  Did he skate barefoot in them?

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

16 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Not to sound like a primadonna, and I am sure people will flame me for saying this, but when you order custom skates that are specifically designed to fit a players foot you shouldn't need to "hack" solutions together. 

Guess sliced bread is still the greatest invention!!

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

4 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Work is a variable. I wanted to use static values. 

Wut.

[JunkyardAthletic 505]

5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Equipment managers typically hack fixes and occasionally make minor adjustments for players when they get new gear. Most of the time when a skate arrives from the manufacturer it's built pretty close to the players requested specification. You might need to punch an area or make minor modifications but I have yet to see an equipment managers add padding (comfort pads) to the top ankle area of a players skate. 

Again, to me, this is a design flaw. Something. That was just overlooked. 

I've been involved in pro hockey, in one way or another for 22 years.  I post from professional experience in seeing these things first hand.  Sure, opinions are like assholes; one is always bigger than another, however, NOTHING has changed with regards to custom skates.  Ask Jeremy Roenick about his experience in LA with Easton skates and every skate rep being called at 11pm to be at the practice rink by 8am in order to fit him for skates.

Your belief is that if you spend that kind of money, it should be perfect right out of the box.  You'd think that would be the same whether you paid +$1000 or a NHL team paid $+900USD for the same.  Unfortunately, there's a preconceived notion that custom skates should be PERFECT, and that's just not how it works.  It certainly doesn't work with the TRUE brand fitting system and hate to say it, it will ALMOST work with the Bauer, but not 100%.

I've seen one of the top NHL players IF NOT THE top NHL player receive skates from the company HE endorses and the skate was off!  As a matter of fact, said player got the skates in last years playoffs and spent all of this season in last year's model skate (cue the Google searchers...LOL).

I've seen a TRUE brand skate fitting.  It is ANYTHING but perfect.  I was invited to watch how it works and I wanted to kill myself after it was complete.  It was that painful to watch and I felt bad for the fitter!

What I came away with is that there's so much room for error just because of how the fitter has to move around.  If TRUE had created a track with a tripod attached that the iPad could fit in and could slide around and capture all of the proper angles, I think that it would improve the fitting process and the final fit of the skate for the consumer.

Would it be 100%, no, however, it might be closer than the "try and hold the iPad properly and walk around this poor bastard you're trying to fit, while making him/her stand in different poses to get the fit.

Edited April 16, 2018 by JunkyardAthletic

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

As the owner of custom Bauer skates I will echoe @JunkyardAthletic  It took work to dial them in. Pain, punches and preserveareance. But the work was worth it and they are now far better than any retail skate could ever be.  And I’d also bet, dollars to donuts, better than Trues.

[CigarScott 132]

15 minutes ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

rror just because of how the fitter has to move around.  If TRUE had created a track with a tripod attached that the iPad could fit in and could slide around and capture all of the proper angles, I think that it would improve the fitting process and the final fit of the skate for the consumer.

Would it be 100%, no, however, it might be closer than the "try and hold the iPad properly and walk around this poor bastard you're trying to fit, while making him/her stand in different poses to get the fit.

Do you believe that the new CCM custom fitting will be superior to what True does? I would like to get fitted for some customs but I believe that there will be a better chance of seeing somewhere south of the Mason-Dixon that will be able to fit people for CCM before True. I find it odd that True is headquarted in Memphis, TN but there is nowhere in the state where you can get fitted or anywhere closer than St. Louis...

[JunkyardAthletic 505]

1 hour ago, CigarScott said:

Do you believe that the new CCM custom fitting will be superior to what True does?

Similar system, one change, better than TRUE because of that, but still not what the process could, or in @Nicholas G opinion, what it should be.

It will NEVER be perfect out of the box!

Further to my previous post, I was on the spot back in the day when Kor fitted Peter Forsberg. The skates were perfect; he didn't think so.

Edited April 17, 2018 by JunkyardAthletic

[nicktsigos 12]

Just got word from True that my skates shipped on Friday, hoping they are in LA this week at some point.  Any on recommend any specific sock, I was in stable 26 before but am feeling like I won’t need those socks anymore. 

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

1 hour ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

Your belief is that if you spend that kind of money, it should be perfect right out of the box.  You'd think that would be the same whether you paid +$1000 or a NHL team paid $+900USD for the same.  Unfortunately, there's a preconceived notion that custom skates should be PERFECT, and that's just not how it works.  It certainly doesn't work with the TRUE brand fitting system and hate to say it, it will ALMOST work with the Bauer, but not 100%.

Man, I remember watching an NHL player before practice, soak his feet in buckets of ice water for 15 mins so they'd shrink and fit into his custom made skates.

 

I wont name the skates, but they rhymed with Sour Grapers.

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

I was at the Islanders retail shop in the practice rink the other day talking to the manager - I know him for many years.  He was telling me that tons and tons of skates get tuned back by players.  And these are all custom.  And you know which one had the most returns....????

 

[JunkyardAthletic 505]

21 minutes ago, dkmiller3356 said:

I was at the Islanders retail shop in the practice rink the other day talking to the manager - I know him for many years.  He was telling me that tons and tons of skates get tuned back by players.  And these are all custom.  And you know which one had the most returns....????

 

In all fairness, @dkmiller3356, players are taking notice that many others are switching/trying TRUE, however, if those skates don't resolve the problems they're having in their current skate (could be Bauer or CCM), or, exceed their expectations, then those skates end up in the secondary market as you've seen.

Every team makes their way through Winnipeg and I'm sure TRUE is Johnny on the spot to fit someone and have their skates back to them the next day.  It certainly is appealing to have that kind of service and hopefully have someone who can make minor changes on the spot while the team in still in WPG.

If it's an Eastern Conference team that only visits once a season, then they may be SOL.  If it's a Western team with two visits, the chance is greater, I think, in landing and keeping a player.

When it comes to the retail market, you're relying on the retail store for help and I'm not sure one is going to get much more than the two hands up "I don't know what to tell ya" response.

Edited April 17, 2018 by JunkyardAthletic

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

1 hour ago, nicktsigos said:

Just got word from True that my skates shipped on Friday, hoping they are in LA this week at some point.  Any on recommend any specific sock, I was in stable 26 before but am feeling like I won’t need those socks anymore. 

I abandoned Stable 26 socks once I got my Trues, and instead use them in my ski boots now.  I use Fox River liners - very thin socks, but I also like that almost barefoot feeling, w/o actually being barefoot.

[Fletch 219]

On the topic of socks in conjunction with True skates, I tried a pair of Copper Fit compression socks and believe it or not, they felt great, better than any sock I had used and I have tried a lot of socks.  I ended up buying 2 more pairs.  I used Swiftwick for a while not too long ago but eventually they made my calves itch (weird I know).  If I can’t use the Copper Fit pairs because they are dirty, my fallback are Under Armour skate socks.  

[Sniper9 529]

9 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Equipment managers typically hack fixes and occasionally make minor adjustments for players when they get new gear. Most of the time when a skate arrives from the manufacturer it's built pretty close to the players requested specification. You might need to punch an area or make minor modifications but I have yet to see an equipment managers add padding (comfort pads) to the top ankle area of a players skate. 

Again, to me, this is a design flaw. Something. That was just overlooked. 

How many people actually need comfort pads? I've never had issues with my ankles getting cut. 

The true skates have extra fabric above the actual edge of the boot so it does have some padding 

[Vet88 674]

4 hours ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

then those skates end up in the secondary market as you've seen.

Which raises an interesting question about customs and possibly their biggest negative point, why would anyone buy a 2nd hand custom boot made for a random player who you have no idea of what shape their foot is? At least with retail you know what you are getting which makes me wonder if 2nd hand customs will hold their price versus retail.