VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[IPv6Freely 2092]

20 minutes ago, Curtiss said:

Hi all, avid reader of MSH for years but this my first post.

I recently picked up a pair of True’s from my LHS in Sheffield, UK. 2 weeks after sending scan details off they were back, impressed with how quick the turnaround was. I’ve struggled to fit into skates for years, with a high arch and instep so decided to take the plunge. I’ve only had 2 hours on the ice so far this week, they felt really comfortable after a few tweaks but will definitely take a period of time to get used to. After reading all the comments here I was under no illusion they’d be perfect out of the box. Just wondering if anyone has had the same issues as me:

- Had to remove the ‘packers’ in toe caps to give me a little more space in the boot as they felt too short. Removing the packers gave me a great fit.

- After the initial bake, fitting and taking the skates home I had to reheat the eyelets and softly curl them out to get the skates back on (common issue seen on this thread)

- Was in MX3’s previously with Tuuks/LS2’s & detroit1 profile, now in step steel with same holder/profile, pitch from these seems to be more aggressive? (My first time using step) 

- Part of the boot seems to have broken down after a mere 2 hours on the ice. Bare in mind I’m not the biggest or most aggressive of skaters out there! I understand there’ll be a slight period of getting used to changes and how the skate feels/reacts etc so I’m waiting for more time on the ice to judge. Really happy overall with no foot pain for the first time in a long time, the comfort and responsiveness of the skate is great, but should this concern me? My LHS are sending images and videos to True to ask.
 

https://imgur.com/a/11POAuy

 

 

What are "packers"?

Your issue looks totally cosmetic, but True will be able to say for sure. 

[Curtiss 2]

1 minute ago, IPv6Freely said:

What are "packers"?

Your issue looks totally cosmetic, but True will be able to say for sure. 

My LHS said in the toe box there's a small bit of material to remove if you feel there isn't enough space in there. It was easily removed via the masking tape holding it in place.

Hopefully you're right and it's just cosmetic.
 

[HabGuy 1]

I got my new skates in January. After I heated the them I had what looks like exploding glue near the same seam and that section was bulged and separated from the skate. I contacted True since I was also concerned and they said the glue was not thermally active (incorrect in my opinion) and the seam/glue was cosmetic. I think they have issues with the glue at least in some cases. The skates were heated at a True reseller and it appeared that everything was done correctly.

I got rid of the bulging and the separation by heating the area with a hairdryer.  Fixed it immediately.

That said, I now have at least 50 games on them ( I play a lot)and the area is no worse.  Only major problem I have had was breaking a blade within a week in the area where the bolt holds it. True replaced it at no cost and the LHS profiled and sharpened them for free so the service was great. I believe there is a year warranty from Step on their steel.

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

5 hours ago, Curtiss said:

Hi all, avid reader of MSH for years but this my first post.

I recently picked up a pair of True’s from my LHS in Sheffield, UK. 2 weeks after sending scan details off they were back, impressed with how quick the turnaround was. I’ve struggled to fit into skates for years, with a high arch and instep so decided to take the plunge. I’ve only had 2 hours on the ice so far this week, they felt really comfortable after a few tweaks but will definitely take a period of time to get used to. After reading all the comments here I was under no illusion they’d be perfect out of the box. Just wondering if anyone has had the same issues as me:

- Had to remove the ‘packers’ in toe caps to give me a little more space in the boot as they felt too short. Removing the packers gave me a great fit.

- After the initial bake, fitting and taking the skates home I had to reheat the eyelets and softly curl them out to get the skates back on (common issue seen on this thread)

- Was in MX3’s previously with Tuuks/LS2’s & detroit1 profile, now in step steel with same holder/profile, pitch from these seems to be more aggressive? (My first time using step) 

- Part of the boot seems to have broken down after a mere 2 hours on the ice. Bare in mind I’m not the biggest or most aggressive of skaters out there! I understand there’ll be a slight period of getting used to changes and how the skate feels/reacts etc so I’m waiting for more time on the ice to judge. Really happy overall with no foot pain for the first time in a long time, the comfort and responsiveness of the skate is great, but should this concern me? My LHS are sending images and videos to True to ask.
 

https://imgur.com/a/11POAuy

 

 

The "packers" you're referring to is what Scott Van Horne (in his video) refers to as the "custom fit toe cap inserts".  They are black foam pads, about an 1/8" thick, that are held in the front of the boot with masking tape.  I had one in my boot too, and I also removed it as the boot felt too short.  Once I took the insert out the boot length was perfect (it gives you a 1/4 size more in length if you take one out).  This is not to be confused with the toecap foam, which are red comfort foam pads (the same material they use to make the red footbeds) that are adhered to the front of the toecap to provide comfort padding.  Note: not all True skates have the toe cap inserts in them - I had it only in one skate, the skate for my shorter foot)

Very common to reheat the eyelets and pull them back in order to get into the skate easier

Step holder pitch is slightly more forward than the Tuuk holder pitch.

I wouldn't worry too much about the "break down" in your pic.  That's mostly the carbon composite outer epoxy layer scratching off, which is gonna happen during gameplay.  AFAIK, it's not going to affect the integrity of the boot. (it's like scratching graphics off on another brand skate)

If anything worries you though, contact True.  They're customer service is great and they're always ready to help out.

Edited May 3, 2018 by shoot_the_goalie

[Curtiss 2]

3 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

The "packers" you're referring to is what Scott Van Horne (in his video) refers to as the "custom fit toe cap inserts".  They are black foam pads, about an 1/8" thick, that are held in the front of the boot with masking tape.  I had one in my boot too, and I also removed it as the boot felt too short.  Once I took the insert out the boot length was perfect (it gives you a 1/4 size more in length if you take one out).  This is not to be confused with the toecap foam, which are red comfort foam pads (the same material they use to make the red footbeds) that are adhered to the front of the toecap to provide comfort padding.

Very common to reheat the eyelets and pull them back in order to get into the skate easier

Step holder pitch is slightly more forward than the Tuuk holder pitch.

I wouldn't worry too much about the "break down" in your pic.  That's mostly the carbon composite outer epoxy layer scratching off, which is gonna happen during gameplay.  AFAIK, it's not going to affect the integrity of the boot. (it's like scratching graphics off on another brand skate)

If anything worries you though, contact True.  They're customer service is great and they're always ready to help out.

Thanks very much for all the feedback, it’s helped put my mind at ease a bit. Yeah it’s the soft foam pads I removed so good to hear I’m removing the right part!

I’m still in Tuuk holders, just step steel. My feet are tiny so I’m actually in a junior size boot and apparently we can’t get step holders in 246 in UK, which is fine.

the hockey store is sending images and videos to true for any issues before my first game on them this weekend but by the sounds of it, like you’ve both mentioned it’s cosmetic, really appreciate it. I’ll come back with any further feedback after Sunday’s game. 

[mc88 160]

 

• TUUK LS Edge 263mm holders with Tydan DLC w/Mirror finish runners
• Built-in 1/8" shims
• Black wick liner
• Integrated shot blockers
• Single felt tongue with an enhanced metatarsal guard
• Howies waxed 96" laces

 

Out of the box:

- Right foot was golden, perfect fit length-wise, width-wise and depth

- Left foot required some tweaks with depth (removed red insole and trimmed tongues), otherwise fit length-wise and width-wise was golden

Edited May 18, 2018 by mc88

[IPv6Freely 2092]

2 hours ago, mc88 said:

 

• TUUK LS Edge 263mm holders with Tydan DLC w/Mirror finish runners
• Built-in 1/8" shims
• Black wick liner
• Integrated shot blockers
• Single felt tongue with an enhanced metatarsal guard
• Howies waxed 96" laces

 

Out of the box:

- Right foot was golden, perfect fit length-wise, width-wise and depth

- Left foot required some tweaks with depth (removed red insole and trimmed tongues), otherwise fit length-wise and width-wise was golden

Why did you choose the black wicking liner? 

[mc88 160]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

Why did you choose the black wicking liner? 

Sweaty b*stard. According to VH, the liner would maintain better grip over clarino if you tend to sweat a lot.

Edited May 18, 2018 by mc88

[navy21 4]

3 hours ago, mc88 said:

 

• TUUK LS Edge 263mm holders with Tydan DLC w/Mirror finish runners
• Built-in 1/8" shims
• Black wick liner
• Integrated shot blockers
• Single felt tongue with an enhanced metatarsal guard
• Howies waxed 96" laces

 

Out of the box:

- Right foot was golden, perfect fit length-wise, width-wise and depth

- Left foot required some tweaks with depth (removed red insole and trimmed tongues), otherwise fit length-wise and width-wise was golden

Just curious....how did they do the shims?  I’m looking to get some added to my skate for pronation issues and having trouble finding someone to do it.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

1 hour ago, mc88 said:

Sweaty b*stard. According to VH, the liner would maintain better grip over clarino if you tend to sweat a lot.

That’s what they told me as well. Ended up going clarino anyway, but have what I think is similar in my Makos. Is it the same thing or similar?

1 hour ago, navy21 said:

Just curious....how did they do the shims?  I’m looking to get some added to my skate for pronation issues and having trouble finding someone to do it.

They’re built into the skate, not added. If you need shims added maybe the MSH pro shop can do it for you?

[cbhockey22 5]

19 hours ago, mc88 said:

 

• TUUK LS Edge 263mm holders with Tydan DLC w/Mirror finish runners
• Built-in 1/8" shims
• Black wick liner
• Integrated shot blockers
• Single felt tongue with an enhanced metatarsal guard
• Howies waxed 96" laces

 

Out of the box:

- Right foot was golden, perfect fit length-wise, width-wise and depth

- Left foot required some tweaks with depth (removed red insole and trimmed tongues), otherwise fit length-wise and width-wise was golden

Asked about custom TRUE skates today at LHS, was told TRUE will put TUUK holders on by request, but everything I’ve read here would suggest that’s not reality. Can you or anyone else confirm or deny this statement?

Edited May 18, 2018 by cbhockey22

[mc88 160]

1 hour ago, cbhockey22 said:

Asked about custom TRUE skates today at LHS, was told TRUE will put TUUK holders on by request, but everything I’ve read here would suggest that’s not reality. Can you or anyone else confirm or deny this statement?

From what I've been told (and what I had to do) you must supply them with the holders. Otherwise, they'll just mount True holders OR just send back a boot without pre-drilled holes.

Edited May 18, 2018 by mc88

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

2 hours ago, mc88 said:

From what I've been told (and what I had to do) you must supply them with the holders. Otherwise, they'll just mount True holders OR just send back a boot without pre-drilled holes.

You are correct they will NOT put on Edge or Tuuk holders unless you supply them. Right now I am 60 / 40 for True Holders 

[Haggerty 144]

On 4/11/2018 at 6:12 AM, Vet88 said:

hat cover all of the skate. So the built in shot blockers are much heavier than an external one.

If the holes line up with Edge holders why not just get the True holders and swap, you could always sell or keep the true holders are a back up. JM2C

[CigarScott 132]

I seem to have read somewhere that True's largest holder is 296mm so if you need a 306mm holder then you would have to use a Tuuk or other third party; can anyone confirm this?

[adam14 182]

On 5/18/2018 at 2:57 PM, mc88 said:

From what I've been told (and what I had to do) you must supply them with the holders. Otherwise, they'll just mount True holders OR just send back a boot without pre-drilled holes.

We would include the holder with the purchase when customers got customs done, so if they wanted the True holder we added it to the order but if they wanted Edge holders we would order boot only, pre drilled for Tuuks and install upon arrival and then let the customer know they were in.

[mc88 160]

For the weight-watcher junkies (268mm or about a size 8 skate):

VH Gen 1 - w/o shot blockers - black felt tongue -  w/o shims - standard foot-beds - Elite Wide Unwaxed 96" - Step BlackSteel (874g || 1lb 9.2oz)

 

 

VH Gen 2 - w/shot blockers - black felt tongue - 1/16th shim - standard footbeds - Howies Waxed 96" - LS3 DLC steel (921g || 2lb 0.5oz)

 

True Gen 1 - w/shot blockers - white felt tongue - 1/8th shim - standard foot-beds - Howies Waxed 96" - Tydan DLC + Mirror (986g || 2lb 2.8oz)

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by mc88

[Haggerty 144]

What size?

[Leif 161]

I’ve had my Bauer S160 skates for 18 months, and they fit pretty well. They have some superficial tears but they will last a year or two more. However, I will upgrade to a more high end skate just before Christmas 2018.

Several people have told me that a higher end skate will improve my skating. Do others agree? Going from 20 year old entry level Vapors to the S160 did hugely improve my ability. I am a good skater by local rec standards, but not when compared to the really good players. 

Secondly, a friend bought VH skates as off the shelf skates would not fit his very wide feet. Given that Supremes fit me (seemingly) well, would the VH offer any benefit over the Supreme 2s? From what I can see the VH should fit snugly, whereas the 2s will be slightly less snug, using internal padding to fill voids, but with some accommodation when heat moulding. Or perhaps the 2s is far more than I need? 

Incidentally money is not an issue, it’s the fit and performance benefits if any that matter. Oh, and I’m 54 but very fit with a lean build, if that makes any difference. 

[mc88 160]

2 hours ago, Haggerty said:

What size?

268mm or about a size 8 (~270mm).

[mc88 160]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

Several people have told me that a higher end skate will improve my skating. Do others agree? Going from 20 year old entry level Vapors to the S160 did hugely improve my ability. I am a good skater by local rec standards, but not when compared to the really good players. 

Secondly, a friend bought VH skates as off the shelf skates would not fit his very wide feet. Given that Supremes fit me (seemingly) well, would the VH offer any benefit over the Supreme 2s? From what I can see the VH should fit snugly, whereas the 2s will be slightly less snug, using internal padding to fill voids, but with some accommodation when heat moulding. Or perhaps the 2s is far more than I need? 

Incidentally money is not an issue, it’s the fit and performance benefits if any that matter. Oh, and I’m 54 but very fit with a lean build, if that makes any difference. 

1.) Depends on your skill level. You'll want ankle strength and skate mileage before diving into a super stiff pair of skates. Since you're used to using softer skates, you may find the stiffness not to your liking and/or overwhelming. As such, I'd recommend a pair of mid-level skates. Not too stiff, not too soft, like a s180 or perhaps s190 if you want something a little stiffer. Going from a s160 to a 2S is a large jump in stiffness and I personally wouldn't recommend it. A good indicator that you'll want to move up to a higher tier of boot is if the boot prematurely breaks down (within 1-6 months). Take this fictional scenario into account: "I'm used to using an intermediate 67 flex, but several people said my shot will improve if I move up to a stiffer flex. I'm thinking about using a 112 flex, do you guys think that's a good idea?" 

2.) If you find that the Supreme line of skates fit your needs: Fit, comfort, and durability, then I see no reason to go custom. For me, the custom skate has always been more about stepping on the ice and not remembering I'm in a pair of skates (fit and comfort), but rather I'm in the moment, playing the game. That's been my indicator for gear. If it's working and it's working well, I'll never even notice it. If it's not working, then it becomes center stage and the gameplay takes a seat in the audience. Unfortunately, for me, the latter was what I felt and experienced when I went with retail skates. Here's the reason why I went custom. If your dogs are barkin' every time you step on or off the ice, then you can try boot stretching/punching, and if that doesn't work, then you can try a different brand/model AND if that doesn't work, go custom.

Also, never buy off-the-shelf or pro-return custom skates. That includes Bauer and CCM. The boots were made for that particular player's feet. And unless you're lucky enough to have the exact same left and right foot dimensions as them, stick with retail or get your own custom set. 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by mc88

[Cavs019 708]

I don’t agree with the bolded, at all.  

Bauer and CCM have the sizes clearly marked on them and it’s fairly easy to determine if anything was done to the vamping, stiffness, etc. Also, most pro return pairs are the same size in both feet.

If anything, with how Bauer builds their retail skates (Nexus and Supreme) on oversized lasts it’s actually easier to figure out exactly what you’re getting with a pro stock skate. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Cavs019

[IPv6Freely 2092]

3 hours ago, Leif said:

would the VH offer any benefit over the Supreme 2s?

I would suggest that a skate made for your foot will always fit better than one that wasn't. The question is whether it's worth the extra cost to you.

37 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

I don’t agree with the bolded, at all.  

Bauer and CCM have the sizes clearly marked on them and it’s fairly easy to determine if anything was done to the vamping, stiffness, etc. Also, most pro return pairs are the same size in both feet.

If anything, with how Bauer builds their retail skates (Nexus and Supreme) on oversized lasts it’s actually easier to figure out exactly what you’re getting with a pro stock skate. 

To add to that, a retail skate isn't made for your foot either. So what difference does it make if you buy a retail skate not made for your foot or a pro stock skate that was also not made for your foot?

[mc88 160]

5 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

Bauer and CCM have the sizes clearly marked on them and it’s fairly easy to determine if anything was done to the vamping, stiffness, etc. Also, most pro return pairs are the same size in both feet.

 

4 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

To add to that, a retail skate isn't made for your foot either. So what difference does it make if you buy a retail skate not made for your foot or a pro stock skate that was also not made for your foot?

To expand: The average consumer won't know what to buy when it comes to skates. Their only reference will be their shoe size. When picking out skates, they'll usually pick based upon appearance first and upon their shoe size second. Factor in that not everyone has a local shop within a reasonable driving distance or the stock the shop has on hand is limited, or the shop doesn't offer a custom fit center... they'll still have the option to return retail skates (if bought online, ordered thru a shop, or if its a CCM skate). For pro stock skates, not an option. On top of that, the average consumer won't be informed about Bauer's/CCM codes. They also won't factor in stiffness, depth of skates, foot arch, nor the fore-foot width to heel width. They'll buy on impulse/appearance instead of researching beforehand (like Leif's friend).  So I'll restate, the average consumer -- like Leif, shouldn't buy pro stock skates.

Edited May 25, 2018 by mc88

[Vet88 674]

8 hours ago, mc88 said:

 A good indicator that you'll want to move up to a higher tier of boot is if the boot prematurely breaks down (within 1-6 months). 

Whilst I agree with everything else you said, this is wrong. The primary reason for a boot breaking down (going soft and opening up on the inside ankle area) within 1-6 months is because of poor technique or pronation issues, skaters lean too heavily on the inside of the skate. Going up to a stiffer boot doesn't fix the issue, it just hides it. And if you don't believe this there is a simple test, rip your laces out and go for a skate....

And this isn't reserved just for the lower level skates either, I know a bunch of pros that replace their skates every 6 months or so as the skate goes soft. However these guys all know how to skate having managed an over aggressive inside roll with years and years of practice, replacing skates is just part of the job.