VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[CigarScott 132]

Good news: Rob emailed me back and they're going to make me a new pair. I'll let you all know how the new pair is once they show up.

[BureKovy 20]

On 8/31/2018 at 12:48 PM, CigarScott said:

Good news: Rob emailed me back and they're going to make me a new pair. I'll let you all know how the new pair is once they show up.

I have similar feet you, 11 and 11.5 with 296 holders.  MLX skates I had to get them to make a wider custom set and they had 306 holders.  Also flat feet.  I found just superfeet (no insert) with a custom tongue works the best and gives enough volume.

Sounds like you have a few issues but you shouldn't be hitting the end of your skates.  They either fitted you wrong or you didn't kick your heel back enough in the baking process.

Is your LHS sending in measurements and a scan Also?

 

 

[CigarScott 132]

1 hour ago, BureKovy said:

I have similar feet you, 11 and 11.5 with 296 holders.  MLX skates I had to get them to make a wider custom set and they had 306 holders.  Also flat feet.  I found just superfeet (no insert) with a custom tongue works the best and gives enough volume.

Sounds like you have a few issues but you shouldn't be hitting the end of your skates.  They either fitted you wrong or you didn't kick your heel back enough in the baking process.

Is your LHS sending in measurements and a scan Also?

 

 

Oh, I kicked my heels back as far back as I could, my heels were red as hell after baking due to how tight it was in the heels. I don't think these scanners take into account foot shape as I may only be the length of an 11 but I need a 12 due to how wide my toes go out there being almost no curve in my toes; I have almost truly rectangular feet. Factor in my messed up right ankle where I pronate in skates and supinate in shoes, I had to go custom if I was ever going to become a decent skater. They took photos of my feet from all angles, marked my hotspot areas, took photos of my feet in True's Brannock-like device so there was scale and even took photos of the foot tracings that I made with measurements on them that I shipped to the shop with my skates so they knew how much stretching they would have to do when they widened my skates. I was 3D scanned for my True's so there isn't much that they could have done to fit me wrong. It could also be that True and the other companies don't have a lot of experience in making skate comfortable for larger people. A really snug skate for someone that is 5'10" and 180 lbs can be too tight and put too much pressure around the foot to someone that is 6'5" and weighs twice that.

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

At some point people have to realize that the skate has issues. Glad to finally see some objectivity. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

All skates have issues. How the customer service dept handles it is the difference.  As for this fit above I wish I was around to help out. Sounds like a little more expiernece with the skate may have made it a little less of an issue. Although it sounds to me like every base was covered. 

I have had a client albeit shorter over all similar stature and had a similar issue. 

3 pair was a charm. In my opinion 2nd was fine but customer is always right. Happy camper now. I'm sure Rob will sort it he is a magician. 

[CigarScott 132]

1 hour ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

All skates have issues. How the customer service dept handles it is the difference.  As for this fit above I wish I was around to help out. Sounds like a little more expiernece with the skate may have made it a little less of an issue. Although it sounds to me like every base was covered. 

I have had a client albeit shorter over all similar stature and had a similar issue. 

3 pair was a charm. In my opinion 2nd was fine but customer is always right. Happy camper now. I'm sure Rob will sort it he is a magician. 

Right, when making a custom product like a skate and relying on 3D scans being done by vendors instead of being physically measured by company employees there is going to be a certain percentage of skates that have issues. True seems to be doing all that they can to make things right, which is what matters. They have to set themselves apart from the Big 2 as they enter the readily-available custom skate game.

I don't what else Chase at Pure Hockey or I could have done to convey my goofy issues. I offered to make 3D molds of my feet and ship them to Winnipeg but I was told that I couldn't do that.

From all accounts that I've heard, Rob is a great guy and I have no concern about there being a happy ending.

 

[boo10 323]

23 hours ago, CigarScott said:

A really snug skate for someone that is 5'10" and 180 lbs can be too tight and put too much pressure around the foot to someone that is 6'5" and weighs twice that.

I really don't think this is an issue.  If Big Buff can wear them, then size of the skater probably isn't the problem.

[CigarScott 132]

14 minutes ago, boo10 said:

I really don't think this is an issue.  If Big Buff can wear them, then size of the skater probably isn't the problem.

Yes, he's huge for a pro hockey player but he's tiny next to me. As he's an NHL player and based in Winnipeg, he was fitted in-person by Rob and probably had to have tweaks done on them until he actually skated in them in an actual game.

[boo10 323]

31 minutes ago, CigarScott said:

Yes, he's huge for a pro hockey player but he's tiny next to me. As he's an NHL player and based in Winnipeg, he was fitted in-person by Rob and probably had to have tweaks done on them until he actually skated in them in an actual game.

If you were properly fitted, then the scan was done in a weight bearing position.  As such, your foot should have been spread out as far as it will go.  Skates should have been built to that width.  I'm not doubting that they messed up the build on your pair, just stating that a close fit shouldn't be a problem because it shouldn't squeeze your foot.  Whether you're 130 lbs or 500 lbs, the skate shouldn't squeeze your foot.

[flip12 715]

3 hours ago, CigarScott said:

Yes, he's huge for a pro hockey player but he's tiny next to me. As he's an NHL player and based in Winnipeg, he was fitted in-person by Rob and probably had to have tweaks done on them until he actually skated in them in an actual game.

I heard anecdotally that he had his VH skates punched at a shop in Edina when they were in town to play the Wild. If that's true, he'd have had tweaks done even after using them in games.

[CigarScott 132]

My True scan was done right. I've watched countless videos on Youtube on how it was done so I could make sure it was done right. It's not just an issue with True's fitting process, as I've stated earlier in this thread, Bauer and CCM both gave me weird results, with Bauer's being really wonky.

[stick9 892]

I saw it on the Internet, it must be true. 😉

The issue is what’s missing from the process, actual product to try on to verify the recommended fit is at least in the ballpark. Having a means to do that has to be cheaper then making skates a 2nd and even 3rd time.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

42 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I saw it on the Internet, it must be true. 😉

The issue is what’s missing from the process, actual product to try on to verify the recommended fit is at least in the ballpark. Having a means to do that has to be cheaper then making skates a 2nd and even 3rd time.

Not so sure about that. When you get it right 90% of the time it’s probably cheaper to make the last 10% twice than to figure out a way to be able to test the fit of a custom fit item at every store.

[CigarScott 132]

1 hour ago, stick9 said:

I saw it on the Internet, it must be true. 😉

The issue is what’s missing from the process, actual product to try on to verify the recommended fit is at least in the ballpark. Having a means to do that has to be cheaper then making skates a 2nd and even 3rd time.

When it comes straight for the horse's mouth, I would assume that it is true. 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNd8ttvFT0k&t=22s

 

[CigarScott 132]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

Not so sure about that. When you get it right 90% of the time it’s probably cheaper to make the last 10% twice than to figure out a way to be able to test the fit of a custom fit item at every store.

I've talked to a handful of shop managers/owners who sell True skates and they said in their observations that 90-95% of skates work for the customer the first time around so yeah, it wouldn't be practical for them to make dozens of sample skates for each retailer to try on, especially when you market yourselves as a true custom skate that doesn't care about standard sizes.

[Larry54 243]

7 hours ago, CigarScott said:

Yes, he's huge for a pro hockey player but he's tiny next to me. As he's an NHL player and based in Winnipeg, he was fitted in-person by Rob and probably had to have tweaks done on them until he actually skated in them in an actual game.

I would assume that the data they acquired from special cases like Byfuglien and Chara would be added to their process for making skates for other huge clients. Maybe they'll use your data to improve their process for guys of your size.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Larry54

[CigarScott 132]

9 minutes ago, Larry54 said:

I would assume that the data they acquired from special cases like Byfuglien and Chara (is he also tiny next to you?) would be added to their process for making skates for other huge clients.

He's certainly taller than me but I have a good 100 lbs on him. Factor that in with giant, weird-shaped feet and pronation issues and you have me... 🙂

[stick9 892]

Big picture, not sure the current method is the best business model. If you thumb through this thread as an impartial observer, you see issues with cosmetics, build quality, weight compared to other brands and last but not least, fit. This all compounded by Bauer & CCM now doing full customs at retail locations. 

I don’t know enough about the process once the scan is complete to suggest any viable options. Though it does seem like there is a disconnect there. Customers are putting a lot of faith in True to get it right. Seems like they do, but it does seem they miss just as often. For example, somewhere in this thread a user mentioned he just got his Trues. The response was (I may be paraphrasing a bit) “they’re great once you get them dialed in. They’re customs, what’s to dial in?? Lace em up and go, no?

FWIW, from an end user. I’d be furious if I had to tweak what was sold to me as a fully custom skate. The reason I went custom was so I wouldn’t have to punch and stretch and hack a retail boot onto my feet.

Edited September 4, 2018 by stick9

[IPv6Freely 2093]

I think saying they miss just as often is a bit unfair. It sounds like the misses are few and far between. Though on a site like this with educated users things are going to be skewed.

I also put fit before all else. I can deal with skates that are ugly, have some excess glue showing, and are a bit heavy if it means skating without pain. Suggesting we aren't impartial or not being objective just because we're happy with a product is also a bit unfair IMO. 

All that said, I'm looking forward to Bauer and CCM getting into this game at this level. I'd love to be wearing a Bauer that's half the weight but equally as comfortable. I just hope Bauer moves into the goalie skate realm with their custom program soon (and/or CCM figures out how to make a cowlingless skate) or I'll be buying another pair of True goalie skates. 

[CigarScott 132]

CCM has been in skate-making business for over a century and Bauer for over 90 years so I expect them to be flawless whereas before November 2016, VH was a tiny, niche company where the owner was making skates in his basement 3-4 years ago, so I knew and accepted that they wouldn’t be as refined as the Big Two. Hell, True Hockey skates could look like crappy, high school shop class projects for all I care if they are comfortable, stiff enough for my weight, and help with my pronation.

There are pros and cons to all three options. Bauer and CCM are well-known brands that virtually everyone that plays or has played hockey has heard of and trusts. True is a small company when compared to them and are better known for their golf club shafts that a lot of the general hockey public, especially non-gear nerds have never heard of. Bauer and CCM has far more fit centers where you can order customs. There is a Bauer and CCM fit center about 2.5 hours from where I live in Birmingham; True doesn’t have one within 500 miles of where I live. I realize that I live in a bit of a hockey desert but there is nowhere, that I’m aware of in Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Louisiana where you can be fitted for True skates so unless you can get outside of this large geographic footprint to get fitted, they’re not available to a good chunk of the US and I’m sure there are a lot of other gaps in the US where hockey players can’t get fitted for them.

The pros of True is that they’re a lot cheaper than Bauer and CCM: Bauer by $150 and CCM by $200. I would have considered Bauer but the scan results that I got were so far off that I wouldn’t trust my skates to come close to fitting and I thought my feet scanned a little small with my CCM results plus I had a bit of sticker shock with them. If I could have gotten a boot-only order from CCM where I could have installed LS Edge’s on them then I may have gone that route, especially if the costs were relatively comparable to True’s boot-only option. True is also known for its customer service. If I had these problems with a custom Bauer or CCM skate, I would be SOL unless I knew someone.

I’m not sure what the complete fascination is with skate weight. No one wants cinder blocks on their feet but If 100g per skate is unbearable for you, then don’t skip leg day. 😊

As IP6Freely stated above, people like us that are regularly on this site and others like it are a tiny subset of hockey players, especially amongst adults. Most people who are True customers that are on here are the small percentage who had problems or fellow gear nerds who want to tell everyone how great their feet finally feel. Most people are in the middle and aren't on these types of websites. Hell, half the guys I see at my rink are rocking gear from companies that no longer exist or the stuff that looks like it was something that Gretzky played with, so they don’t really care about the latest brands and innovations until something breaks on them and then most of the time, they put price and value ahead of whatever the latest and greatest tech is or hot new brand is.

Edited September 4, 2018 by CigarScott
misspelled the Great One's name

[mojo122 535]

1 hour ago, stick9 said:

This all compounded by Bauer & CCM now doing full customs at retail locations. 

I don’t know enough about the process once the scan is complete to suggest any viable options. 

They’re customs, what’s to dial in?? Lace em up and go, no?

The MyBauer custom skate is not full custom by definition.  That merely offers length and true width (not knocking that at all) along with a choice of liner, modest selection of tongues, and steel.  Silk screening name and number to me cater to the young and foolish.  What I do like (if done right by the fitter) is the ability to size down or up off the scan by using retail skates to dial in how the skater wants the skate to fit.  What's also great is that the fitter can add detailed notes directly to the foot scan and they'll be addressed by the experts up at the custom factory.

Custom skates doesn't always mean just a bake and you're all set.  Even customs need some tweaking from time to time.

The problem I see at retail is that too many skaters, even those who have been skating forever, are skating in improperly fitted skates.  In my experience very FEW players actually need a custom skate.  

40 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I think saying they miss just as often is a bit unfair. It sounds like the misses are few and far between. Though on a site like this with educated users things are going to be skewed.

I also put fit before all else. I can deal with skates that are ugly, have some excess glue showing, and are a bit heavy if it means skating without pain. Suggesting we aren't impartial or not being objective just because we're happy with a product is also a bit unfair IMO. 

What I see too often with True/VH are skates that wind up having way too much overwrap.  Too much overwrap can make it harder to flex forward and will ultimately lead to premature breakdown of the boot.  

For those of you who know me you can attest that I have some of the ugliest and widest feet around, yet I can skate comfortably without pain in Bauer, CCM, and Graf skates.  I wore the Easton Mako as well and really liked the performance of that skate.  My choice if I wanted performance similar to the Mako in a one-piece boot would be to go CCM, either in the FT1 or AS1.  

From a lengthy career that involved needing to be able to read people my impression is there's a lot of thin skinned folks posting in this thread.  

For those of you who don't mind excessive weight and overwrap then all the best to you.  Me, I'll go AS1 for my one-piece boot.  

[IPv6Freely 2093]

I'm not sure disagreeing with people is being thin-skinned. 

[mojo122 535]

Sensitive, easily offended, touchy, defensive = thin-skinned.

Anyways, I'm done with this thread....dead to me.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Okay glad you weren’t referring to me 😂

[stick9 892]

You’re right 100grams isnt much sitting in your hand. Hell its really not that much sitting on your foot at the shop. However, add a 100grams to each foot during a game and you better believe it matters.

Hopefully the misspell of the Great Ones name was just a typo, a terrible, horrible typo... 😏