Help adapting to modern equipment

[OldNSlow 3]

After about of decade away from the game, I started playing briefly again about 6-7 years ago.  At that point, I was mostly using a composite shaft with a wood blade and my old Bauer 5000 skates.  Now, after another 4.5 years away from the game, I restarted playing in a local men's league.  I'm having trouble adapting to modern equipment and I'm looking for help/advice.

Composite Stick:  I have yet to adapt to composite sticks.  The puck feel for stickhandling is horrible.  Shooting feels and sounds like I'm handling a hollow, plastic hockey stick.  A few years ago, I had a Bauer one95 pro stock for a bit and it was the closest thing I could find to the puck feel of a wood blade.  Any recommendations on more recent sticks? 

Curves:  I used the Easton Suter/Shanahan curve for many years and I'm not able to stickhandle, pass and shoot with an open blade as well as a closed blade.  I can't find anything similar on the market to the old Shanahan curve. I've also noticed that lies seem to be consistently higher now.  Back in my day, the norm was a 5 or 5.5 lie.  Now I mostly see 6 & 7 lies on mid-curves.  I know Base has the Shanahan curve, but I don't like tapered shafts, as they feel too thin at the bottom.  Since I use a short shaft, I have my bottom hand down low on the shaft and can feel the taper.  Suggestions on curves?

Ideally, I would like to find a stick and curve that I know will be consistently available, although I'm open to pro stock sticks.  Since I'm finding my search very difficult, I am considering ordering two Bauer custom sticks with the "soft" blade and Kane's NHL curve, but the price is outrageous. 

Skates:  I'm still rotating two pairs of Bauer Supreme 5000 skates.  They are awesome!  But I also realize they are very heavy compared to modern skates and they won't last much longer.  When I tried composite skates about 7-8 years ago, I struggled with foot pain and boot flexing.  Any recommendations on skates?

Thanks in advance.

Edited February 17, 2020 by OldNSlow

[xstartxtodayx 343]

For skates, go try on some CCM Ribcor's.  If they fit your foot they might be just what you're looking for since they're more flexible than most of the modern skates.  I had Supreme One75's and then Vapor X700's and loved how light they were compared to older boots but never adapted to the added stiffness (before those I was in Graf 705's from the late 90's).  Last year I decided to give the Ribcor's a try and fell in love instantly with the 78K model, it had more of a feel and flex like the older style boots but was lightweight like the modern stuff, a win-win for me.

[caveman27 208]

1 hour ago, OldNSlow said:

After about of decade away from the game, I started playing briefly again about 6-7 years ago.  At that point, I was mostly using a composite shaft with a wood blade and my old Bauer 5000 skates.  Now, after another 4.5 years away from the game, I restarted playing in a local men's league.  I'm having trouble adapting to modern equipment and I'm looking for help/advice.

Composite Stick:  I have yet to adapt to composite sticks.  The puck feel for stickhandling is horrible.  Shooting feels and sounds like I'm handling a hollow, plastic hockey stick.  A few years ago, I had a Bauer one95 pro stock for a bit and it was the closest thing I could find to the puck feel of a wood blade.  Any recommendations on more recent sticks? 

Curves:  I used the Easton Suter/Shanahan curve for many years and I'm not able to stickhandle, pass and shoot with an open blade as well as a closed blade.  I can't find anything similar on the market to the old Shanahan curve. I've also noticed that lies seem to be consistently higher now.  Back in my day, the norm was a 5 or 5.5 lie.  Now I mostly see 6 & 7 lies on mid-curves.  I know Base has the Shanahan curve, but I don't like tapered shafts, as they feel too thin at the bottom.  Since I use a short shaft, I have my bottom hand down low on the shaft and can feel the taper.  Suggestions on curves?

Ideally, I would like to find a stick and curve that I know will be consistently available, although I'm open to pro stock sticks.  Since I'm finding my search very difficult, I am considering ordering two Bauer custom sticks with the "soft" blade and Kane's NHL curve, but the price is outrageous. 

Skates:  I'm still rotating two pairs of Bauer Supreme 5000 skates.  They are awesome!  But I also realize they are very heavy compared to modern skates and they won't last much longer.  When I tried composite skates about 7-8 years ago, I struggled with foot pain and boot flexing.  Any recommendations on skates?

Thanks in advance.

Sticks: I would suggest Sherwood PP28 or other Sherwood curve with 5.0 or 5.5. lie as I also like low lie. 

Skates: The best thing I would recommend is getting the correct fit - length, width, foot/boot shape. Coming from older skates, I like the heel lock in CCM JetSpeeds (your mileage may vary). I'm a bit worried the fabric inner material is going to wear away as compared to synthetic leather/leather but so far, so good.

[colins 246]

3 minutes ago, caveman27 said:

Sticks: I would suggest Sherwood PP28 or other Sherwood curve with 5.0 or 5.5. lie as I also like low lie. 

Skates: The best thing I would recommend is getting the correct fit - length, width, foot/boot shape. Coming from older skates, I like the heel lock in CCM JetSpeeds (your mileage may vary). I'm a bit worried the fabric inner material is going to wear away as compared to synthetic leather/leather but so far, so good.

 

He said he didn't like Open curves though so I don't think the PP28 is the Sherwood I'd recommend - the PP77 is their old-school Coffey. Nice big curve but closed and low lie.

But the most obvious choice at Retail would be the P88. Closed, 1/2" mid curve, low lie (don't be fooled by Bauer's marking of a 6 lie on this one - it's significantly lower lie than their other popular curves). You can find it in Bauer, CCM, Warrior, True, everyone has a P88 curve that meets your old school closed low lie criteria. P88 has lasted for a reason.

 

colins

 

[caveman27 208]

1 minute ago, colins said:

He said he didn't like Open curves though so I don't think the PP28 is the Sherwood I'd recommend - the PP77 is their old-school Coffey. Nice big curve but closed and low lie.

But the most obvious choice at Retail would be the P88. Closed, 1/2" mid curve, low lie (don't be fooled by Bauer's marking of a 6 lie on this one - it's significantly lower lie than their other popular curves). You can find it in Bauer, CCM, Warrior, True, everyone has a P88 curve that meets your old school closed low lie criteria. P88 has lasted for a reason.

colins

Hmm, missed that.

I did get a bunch of good slap shots at my last game, PP28 curve is just right for me... and I got lift/control/speed... so the puck landed right into the chest of the goalie. He didn't have to move at all.  😂

[BenBreeg 493]

I second trying the Ribcore if they fit you.  Went from Bauer 7000 to them for the same reason you are citing.

[colins 246]

 

One thing I noticed going from old Daoust 501s that fit like slippers to new modern boots - if you get them fitted well and baked, try using them without tightening them up too much.

I was trying to tie mine snug like I liked with the older more flexible materials, but with the modern boots that simply didn't work, it caused my feet to get numb or sore especially in the width, and I am wearing EE in a the CCM Jetspeed line.

So now I just tie them barely snug from the toe up to the top two eyelets (I skip the very top eyelet) where I pull them a little tighter. Seems to work for me.

colins

[Above40 7]

Great advice from Colins! I found the same when transitioning back to skating. I kept trying to tighten these new stiff skates up and get them locked on my feet but the opposite turned out to be the solution. Snug and no top eyelet...they feel a little "tippy" for a while and then they somehow morph into the perfect feel when you adjust. A ton of what I thought were the skates not fitting perfect was about just getting used to being on the ice again. It all comes back. Things I used to obsess over I kinda laugh at myself now about. Ankle strength and "feel" hours...goes a long way... all that lock and tight perfect fit jargon seemed to go by the wayside the more time I spent on the ice. Close is actually good enough. Tighter not better for me. I found it easier to get to the edges when I had more "slop" in my fit. Not loose but snug with room to move. I've learned to love a stiff boot just not laced as tight as in the old days.

[Davideo 99]

If you want a curve with good retail availability, I agree the 88 would definitely be the closest fit.

As someone coming from mid-90's Tacks skates: Ribcores and skip the top eyelet was my solution. I initially tried some RBZ's, but the fit wasn't great and felt very stiff. I know some older guys who like Grafs as well, but I don't have any personal experience. Proper fit is definitely the most important parameter though.

The reality is also that you will just need to get used to newer equipment. I would imagine that you will adapt pretty quickly. For kicks, I used an old aluminum shaft with a wood blade that I used 20 years ago. It was terrible, but at the time I thought it worked very well.

[Cavs019 708]

Another vote here for Ribcore skates + P88 stick. 

[OldNSlow 3]

Thanks for all the suggestions. 

Stick: For puck feel, what are some suggestions?  I know puck feel is subjective, but maybe some old timers that know the joys of a wood stick may have empathy for my dilemma.

Curve: I purchased a True P88 blade.  It's close but it's also a short blade.  I like more of a long paddle blade, like Datsyuk, Kane and Drai. 

Skates:  I will check out the Ribcore skates.  I've never owned CCM skates.  I still have my youthful prejudice that CCM skates are a tier below Bauer and Graf, which are the only brands I have ever used.  I remeber when Tacks first came out and they were a design disaster.  😆  The new Grafs put me on my toes a bit and I feel like I can't skate backwards, but the boot feels relatively comfortable.

 

[colins 246]

50 minutes ago, OldNSlow said:

Thanks for all the suggestions. 

Stick: For puck feel, what are some suggestions?  I know puck feel is subjective, but maybe some old timers that know the joys of a wood stick may have empathy for my dilemma.

Curve: I purchased a True P88 blade.  It's close but it's also a short blade.  I like more of a long paddle blade, like Datsyuk, Kane and Drai. 

Skates:  I will check out the Ribcore skates.  I've never owned CCM skates.  I still have my youthful prejudice that CCM skates are a tier below Bauer and Graf, which are the only brands I have ever used.  I remeber when Tacks first came out and they were a design disaster.  😆  The new Grafs put me on my toes a bit and I feel like I can't skate backwards, but the boot feels relatively comfortable.

 

 

Ok now you're really peeling back the layers of the onion. 🙂

Puck feel - this one is tough, manufacturers don't seem to give us the straight goods, instead we get what the marketing department puts out ie "aeroCore2(TM) Max Response SuperBlade woo woo" which is a bunch of gobble gook. At the end of the day though, some blades are manufactured to be super stiff and "responsive" (ie: passes will pop right off your blade if you don't cup them gently, but then snap shots will do the same so there is an upside to that approach). I'm not sure any definitive resource exists to map this out among current stick generations, but some experienced folks can tell you generally which blades are known to be 'pingy' and which ones play a bit 'softer'. Personally I like the feel of the Bauer Nexus blades.

For a longer paddle than the P88 (P88 isn't short, it's generally considered a medium, the CCM P40 would be considered a short version of it) you're probably going to need pro stock or custom. The one suggestion I'd have left at retail is find a shop with a good stock of Sherwood and check out the Coffey PP77, I believe from memory it's a bit longer than the P88. I have one home I'll check it this evening to verify.

CCM has changed a lot from the old days Skates wise. Starting with the Jetspeed several years ago they stepped back into Skates in a huge way and have driven some real innovation while Bauer was still milking the cow. Definitely worth putting prejudices aside in that department.

colins

[BenBreeg 493]

Skates are so different now, although I never thought of CCMs as a tier below when I was growing up.  Try a ton on.  They are so stiff, even the Ribcore, it is hard to know how they will fit once baked.

The Shanahan I used to have was a square toe curve, and yes, it was a long blade.  The 88 are short in comparison.  Base makes that pattern in a replacement blade I believe, just hard to stomach $65 for a blade.

[Cavs019 708]

The CCM Tavares P45 and Datsyuk P38 blades are sort of like a longer square toe P88 if I remember correctly - though I don’t like CCM sticks unless you can find an old Tacks or Ultra Tacks. 
 

FWIW - the Bauer Supreme 1S has the most “sticky”, wood-like blade I’ve used in a long time. Almost every CCM stick I’ve used has felt like it’s made out of glass, same with recent Warriors after they moved to that minimus 1000 carbon. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Cavs019

[caveman27 208]

You can try a Bauer PM9 blade. It's slightly-open, 5 lie blade, I don't like as much because since it's mid-heel curve, not mid-toe. I got it for a carbon fiber shaft. It was kind of hard to find. I bought it from an online hockey store in Latvia. It doesn't look like they have it in stock anymore.

https://www.hokejam.com/

[start_today 770]

Welcome back to the game!

Another vote for the p88. There’s really only 3 curves widely available at retail now on most sticks- p28, p92, p88, unless you’re buying the $300 flagship stick. The other two curves are hellishly open, compared to what you’re used to. If you go with prostock patterns or curves being phased out, you end up chasing them.   

Whatever stick your trying, start with stuff that initially retailed about $150 or more. You can find stuff on sale or prostocks for cheaper than that. 

But, if your initial one-piece experience is with a retail $75 stick, it’s going to have some combination of poor blade feel and/or poor balance. 

[stick9 890]

In regards to CCM being a notch below. Yeah, I can understand that. There was a time, and really not all that long ago, where they made some pretty terrible skates. That’s no longer the case. The reemergence of the Tacks brand and the evolution of the RBZ line is about when they get things back on track. 

[psulion22 402]

There is nothing on the market that even comes close to a P10 Shanny/Kane.  The P90T looks promising, but it may have too much toe.  It'll also be shorter.  PM9 is a heel curve, it's not close.  P92 is too high a lie, but it does have that kind of toe scoop.  You could try to find a P92 lie 5, but it's still higher and not really the same.  P88 is your best bet in retail curves for now.  It's the lowest lie of the retail curves (even though it's listed as a 6).  It's more closed with a slight opening at the toe.  This is coming from someone who has a P10, P88, P92, P92L5, PM9, and P30 sitting in the garage right now.

Blades, from what I've had the blade on the 2N Pro has the best puck feel.  That is unless you want to pony up $370 for a Nexus ADV.  The puck feel on that thing, especially in receiving passes, is unreal.  A Bauer Supreme stick may also be good because it has a softer blade.  There's nothing you can do for the taper.  All sticks are tapered now, though the length of the taper varies by brand and model.  I'd stay away from low kick sticks as they typically have elongated, exaggerated tapers to transfer as much energy as possible in a short time.  Mid kicks will have shorter tapers because the uck is on the blade longer.

Skates, I can't help you with brand and model.  I've worn Supremes for as long as I can remember going all the way back to the Nike V12 before them.  So I have no basis for what an old Supreme compares to.  But what I would suggest is not getting the top of the line skate with the composite boot.  The middle tier skates will have a tech mesh boot that will be softer and much more like your skates.  They will be heavier though, but not as heavy as yours.  true customs are another option.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

https://www.prostockhockey.com/hockey-sticks/player-sticks/left-christoffer-ehn-jetspeed-85-flex-stick-2/

 

One thing I've noticed guys in your situation struggling to adjust to as well, is using sticks longer than the old shaft/blade days as well as adjusting to the flex (not using super stiff shafts with wood blades). Guys that used to come through the shop would eventually get in a comfort zone one they adapted to both. 

[OldNSlow 3]

I recently tried on the Graf Classic G755 skates and find them to be comfortable with more "classic" feeling.  Would it work to replace the Cobra holders with the classic Tuuk w/ Step blades that I currently have on my old Bauer Supremes? 

I asked at my hockey shop and I was told that the Graf's boot is inclined forward compared to Bauer skates, for example, so the classic Tuuk holders may result in the skates being "off".  Is this correct? 

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

Grafs came with Tuuks before the Cobra holders were developed.

[start_today 770]

The skates might feel “off” because of a difference in pitch between the holders, and different pitch of the skate itself, but you can address that with shims and/or profiling. But, it’s not like you’d do irreparable harm or they are somehow not compatible.