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wedgylx

Yes, its ANOTHER Lace Bite Question

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Hi guys - thanks for your patience as I know this is a common question but I have some specific questions to ask about my equipment. I'll go bullets to make this easier

Youth to ~27 years old 

  • Never had any lace bite issues, as a matter of fact I had never even heard of lace bit

Age ~27, Bought pair of new Bauer Vapors

  • Treated myself to a new pair of skates. I had a pair of Bauer Vapors I really liked and decided to just get a new pair of those. Got professionally fitted/sized, got them baked and everything felt great
  • At some point I developed severe lace bite on BOTH ankles. It got to the point where the lumps were the size of ping-pong balls on both legs but more severe on the left ankle.
  • I tried the gel stick-on pads, didn't help at all. I got Bunga pads - those helped a bit. After only 2 seasons I decided these weren't the boot for me and went back to the Bauer store to get a new pair

Age ~29 - Bought a new pair of Bauer Supremes

  • I had taken some time off and the bite went down. The skate guy told me the vapors were more narrow and shallow than before and probably caused my bite, and I should get the supremes since they have a deeper boot.
  • I didn't know about the pencil test then, but I definitely fail the pencil test in my supremes. Not surprisignly, the lace bite came back with a vengence.
  • I found the tip about making forsberg pads from insulation and started that - it helps the lace bite a lot but I hate the way it feels in my skates and I feel like my ankle stability is affected negatively. Additionally, I only get 1 use of the pad - I play twice a week so have to make 4 pads a week which is annoying.
  • When I use the insulation for 4-6 weeks my lump will shrink way smaller and feel much better and usually I can stop using them and just use bunga pads/gel inserts at this point. It feels better but inevitably the bite comes back and I have to use the insulation forsberg pads again

 

So this year the bite has been a bitch - I'm a size 6.5 skate 9 shoe. I decided to go back to bauer and try a new set - I fail the pencil test in both vapor and supreme in 6.5 and the nexus felt too wide for my feet. 

I mentioned the issue to my boss who's son plays prep school and he came in with a brand new pair of Bauer 1X Vapors that he bought on clearance for $700 (usually $1000 skates) but were too big for his son. Here's where it gets interesting - the skates he gave me are 7.5 so a full size larger than what I use BUT I can (barely) pass the pencil test in them. I don't terribly mind a little room in the toe, so I brought them to the skate shop to get sharpened. The guy there knows my issues - he said listen I know its tempting to use these high end boots but wearing a size too large for you is only going to make the issue worse.

 

What are everyone's thoughts? Should I just get the new skates sharpened and hit stick practice a couple of times to see how it goes?

 

Or do you think the skate guy is right - I'll have more problems from the larger boot and should stick with the 6.5? I could buy the lace extenders everyone talks about and see if those make my existing surpremes (which are in good shape) feel better?

 

I ordered some high-end closed-cell padding online to cut some Forsberg pads from that so they are at least re-usable. 

Edited by wedgylx

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you keep saying you fail the pencil test.  I have to think you need a different cut skate - nexus??  Thats why you are hurting I'd think.  I'm not a fan of pads and extenders... I prefer the right fit.

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Why are you only trying Bauer products?  At this point, I'd be trying all the CCMs (especially with their no questions asked return policy) and getting a full assessment of your foot dimensions to see if anything retail will work for you.  Have you done the Bauer or CCM 3d scanners some shops have?  If you have a shop near by that specializes in high end fittings, I'd be talking to them as well.  Sounds like you are trying to put a band-aid on a deep gash.  Better to address it head on. 

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9 to 6.5 sounds like a bigger jump than normal, but I haven't been in Bauer's for probably 16 years so maybe that is normal. 

 

In any case, it sounds like you need a deeper boot. Nexus is, to my understanding, a more voluminous boot than the Supreme, so I'd start there. 

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I'd say you're better off with a boot too long than a boot too shallow. But like other posters said, get a boot that fits and that doesn't fail the pencil test. Go try on every CCM and Bauer boot you can find. If none exist that meet the criteria, you have a really high instep and you need to go custom.

Are you using the thinnest footbeds you can find? You certainly don't need any beefy footbeds that could make the problem worse. Comparing different boots with different footbeds can make it difficult to compare apples to apples - try sticking with the same footbeds, the thinnest you find comfortable.

Then get the lace bite fully healed before trying again.

If you'e going to wear the skates that are too long you could at least try some Powerfoot inserts in the toe to give you some stability. If you have a good heel lock it shouldn't make the problem any worse. https://www.adrenalinedesign.ca/powerfoot/

colins

 

Edited by colins

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1 hour ago, dkmiller3356 said:

you keep saying you fail the pencil test.  I have to think you need a different cut skate - nexus??  Thats why you are hurting I'd think.  I'm not a fan of pads and extenders... I prefer the right fit.

So I tried the nexus on briefly and while it looks like my ankle would pass the pencil test on those I thought the boot itself was just too wide. The footbed had me feeling like I was swimming. i'm going to try on some other brands Sunday to see if there's a better match but if I could modify my existing boots a bit and save the money that would be great. Ultimately if I need new skates again to feel better its worth it

1 hour ago, krisdrum said:

Why are you only trying Bauer products?  At this point, I'd be trying all the CCMs (especially with their no questions asked return policy) and getting a full assessment of your foot dimensions to see if anything retail will work for you.  Have you done the Bauer or CCM 3d scanners some shops have?  If you have a shop near by that specializes in high end fittings, I'd be talking to them as well.  Sounds like you are trying to put a band-aid on a deep gash.  Better to address it head on. 

I got the Bauer 3D scan and they say the best boot for me is the one I have, size 6.5 supremes. I've only tried Bauer so far because the shop I go to is actually owned by Bauer and its all they carry - but I have an appointment Sunday at 3pm with a local skate repair shop known for custom skates and the best fittings in the area. They carry everything so I'm hopeful I find a better fit. I heard CCM were deeper and I loved the Super Tacks growing up...

42 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Get away from Bauer.  Try other brands or worst case, go custom.

Thanks, that's the plan Sunday

9 minutes ago, mtn said:

9 to 6.5 sounds like a bigger jump than normal, but I haven't been in Bauer's for probably 16 years so maybe that is normal. 

 

In any case, it sounds like you need a deeper boot. Nexus is, to my understanding, a more voluminous boot than the Supreme, so I'd start there. 

I thought so too but I think its just how the Bauer's run. The funny thing is with shoes im a 9, sometimes 9.5 depending on the brand so I was shocked they recommended 6.5 also. My friend wears a 8.5 and is in a 6 Bauer Vapor so I guess its pretty standard now.

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6 minutes ago, colins said:

 

I'd say you're better off with a boot too long than a boot too shallow. But like other posters said, get a boot that fits and that doesn't fail the pencil test. Go try on every CCM and Bauer boot you can find. If none exist that meet the criteria, you have a really high instep and you need to go custom.

Are you using the thinnest footbeds you can find? You certainly don't need any beefy footbeds that could make the problem worse. Comparing different boots with different footbeds can make it difficult to compare apples to apples - try sticking with the same footbeds, the thinnest you find comfortable.

Then get the lace bite fully healed before trying again.

If you'e going to wear the skates that are too long you could at least try some Powerfoot inserts in the toe to give you some stability. If you have a good heel lock it shouldn't make the problem any worse. https://www.adrenalinedesign.ca/powerfoot/

colins

 

I just use the footbeds that came with the skates so I imagine they are pretty basic/thin. Like I mentioned, I'm heading to the best spot in our area for skates Sunday so I'm looking forward to getting their advice. They have done work in the past for all the local Boston colleges and for the Bruins from what I understand. They also do custom everything for both hockey and figure skating

 

The powerfoot is a good idea, the 7.5 honestly don't feel THAT much bigger than the 6.5 but maybe because the vapors have a thinner bed.

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2 hours ago, mtn said:

9 to 6.5 sounds like a bigger jump than normal, but I haven't been in Bauer's for probably 16 years so maybe that is normal. 

 

In any case, it sounds like you need a deeper boot. Nexus is, to my understanding, a more voluminous boot than the Supreme, so I'd start there. 

Not all that unusual. I wear a 9 street shoe and do perfectly fine in a size 6D Bauer. I can even go 5.5D if I want.

I think there are a lot of guys playing in skates 1-1.5 sizes too big.

Still sound crazy though.

Edited by stick9
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What worked for me was taking 3-4 weeks off (icing area daily) from hockey then I used a bunga pad. It helps. If your lace bite is really bad and you use a bunga pad right away, it won’t work and it will make lace bite even worse. Take time off and ice it daily THEN try a bunga pad. Hope this works!

Edited by Shogun

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1 hour ago, Shogun said:

What worked for me was taking 3-4 weeks off (icing area daily) from hockey then I used a bunga pad. It helps. If your lace bite is really bad and you use a bunga pad right away, it won’t work and it will make lace bite even worse. Take time off and ice it daily THEN try a bunga pad. Hope this works!

I use the bungas already and it’s usually perfect - but for some reason at least once a season or so they flare back up and then I have to go back to damage control with the pipe insulation...

bringing both of my pairs of skates Sunday to the best shop around to see if they recommend I stick with them or get something new

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3 hours ago, stick9 said:

Not all that unusual. I wear a 9 street shoe and do perfectly fine in a size 6D Bauer. I can even go 5.5D if I want.

I think there are a lot of guys playing in skates 1-1.5 sizes too big.

Still sound crazy though.

Completely agree.  I wear a 9 sneaker and wore 6D CCM Tacks as my last retail boot.  (I'm in Trues now).  I will say though that I like a very snug fit, and I wear super thin sock liners instead of socks.

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Bunga pads typically should not be used as a permanent solution.  If you need to always wear Bunga pads to prevent pain, your skates probably don't fit properly.  I used to use Bunga pads during the break in period of any retail boot, where I would use them to cushion hot spots temporarily (for first 10-15 hours of ice time).  After break in, I removed them.  With my Trues, there was no break in period, so didn't need Bunga pads at all with them.

Back to the OP.  I don't fit in any Bauer boot either due to the shape of my feet.  Vapor too narrow all around, Supreme too narrow in forefoot (though heel is great), and Nexus just too big all around.  I find CCM may have more variety/options for you going the retail route.  And again, all else fails, you can go custom.

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I am UK size 9 shoe size, and my custom Bauer 2s Pro skates are 6.5 and 6.75. I've never had lace bite in them, beautiful skates. 

I was in a size 7 Supreme 160 skate and did get lace bite from time to time, it wasn't nice. I think the really thick tongue in the 2S Pro allows me to wear a smaller size skate without lace bite. Maybe you could find something to go under the tongue (or even over the tongue) that helps spread the pressure? 

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14 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Bunga pads typically should not be used as a permanent solution.  If you need to always wear Bunga pads to prevent pain, your skates probably don't fit properly.  I used to use Bunga pads during the break in period of any retail boot, where I would use them to cushion hot spots temporarily (for first 10-15 hours of ice time).  After break in, I removed them.  With my Trues, there was no break in period, so didn't need Bunga pads at all with them.

Back to the OP.  I don't fit in any Bauer boot either due to the shape of my feet.  Vapor too narrow all around, Supreme too narrow in forefoot (though heel is great), and Nexus just too big all around.  I find CCM may have more variety/options for you going the retail route.  And again, all else fails, you can go custom.

I'm going to try some CCM's Sunday and see what this guy recommends. He's pretty well known in my area, so much so I had to book an appointment with him. I'm going to see his opinion and ultimately give the Vapors a try before I buy anything new. If he can make me a set of lace extenders and I can make the $1000 boots work for me, I can't imagine them being worse than what I'm currently using. I wish it wasn't such a pain in the neck to post images here, i'd post a few pics to show what I'm working with

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Part of the problem with “skates should fit X sizes down from your street shoe” is that we can’t know how people’s street shoes fit them. Given the wild sizing inaccuracies you see in hockey skates, I can’t imagine the discrepancies in shoes, seeing as they are softer and more forgiving and even easier to wear too large or small. 

Edited by start_today
just awful spelling and grammar
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8 hours ago, wedgylx said:

I'm going to try some CCM's Sunday and see what this guy recommends. He's pretty well known in my area, so much so I had to book an appointment with him. I'm going to see his opinion and ultimately give the Vapors a try before I buy anything new. If he can make me a set of lace extenders and I can make the $1000 boots work for me, I can't imagine them being worse than what I'm currently using. I wish it wasn't such a pain in the neck to post images here, i'd post a few pics to show what I'm working with

 

I wish you the best of luck but I think the above approach is a real critical mistake. If you're having lace bite in Supremes, trying to make Vapors work is going to be futile. I know it's hard to walk away from an investment in high end skates, but it could literally ruin any chance you have of enjoying the game in the future.

Find the pair that passes the pencil test and fits your foot properly. 

colins

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Not so. If the skates fit ok everywhere else and he can tolerate the length, lace extenders are a viable option so he can use them. Be it a 1X or any other brand, this applies to any skate which is why they are such a good option.

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14 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Not so. If the skates fit ok everywhere else and he can tolerate the length, lace extenders are a viable option so he can use them. Be it a 1X or any other brand, this applies to any skate which is why they are such a good option.

 

Lace extenders can be effective for sure. But it depends on one's for fooling around with making them or ordering them from a source that makes sturdy ones of the right size. 

For the tinker-ers out there, they're a really neat option. For anyone lacking that patience and just wanting to slip their foot in a stock retail or custom boot and not have to worry about pain, I'd recommend finding a boot that fits properly and passes the pencil test.

 

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My feet are really small, so I'm in junior skates. There are no skates that fit me properly, while still passing the pencil test, unless I go custom. I dealt with lace bite on and off for quite a long time, while trying all the solutions under the sun. Hands down best solution I found were Option B skate straps. 

http://www.chooseoptionb.com/

They're ugly as damnation, but they work like a charm. My skates fit like a dream now. No pain or pressure anywhere. Because of the way they're installed, they give the boot about 1/2 cm more height. 

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On 2/22/2020 at 6:01 AM, wedgylx said:

I'm going to try some CCM's Sunday and see what this guy recommends. He's pretty well known in my area, so much so I had to book an appointment with him. I'm going to see his opinion and ultimately give the Vapors a try before I buy anything new. If he can make me a set of lace extenders and I can make the $1000 boots work for me, I can't imagine them being worse than what I'm currently using. I wish it wasn't such a pain in the neck to post images here, i'd post a few pics to show what I'm working with

Out of interest, what was recommended for you?

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On 2/21/2020 at 2:34 PM, start_today said:

Part of the problem with “skates should fit X sizes down from your street shoe” is that we can’t know how people’s street shoes fit them. Given the wild sizing inaccuracies you see in hockey skates, I can’t imagine the discrepancies in shoes, seeing as they are softer and more forgiving and even easier to wear too large or small. 

Ding, ding, ding, winner! Depending on brand and use case, I vary a full size in street shoes. I've also seen people insist they are a particular shoe size and then use a brannock device (metal shoe sizer) and they were off by 2 sizes, typically smaller then they think.

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Can you be more specific on what kind of lace bite you are getting?

if it's in the 3rd/4th/5th eyelet area, that can be caused by skates with not enough volume. If that is the case, the jump from vapors to supremes should of fixed it.

if it's in the 1st/2nd eyelet, the issue is likely forward bend. adding more material in the form of bunga pads, lace bite pads, double tongues, wont' fix that because your are further restricting movement. I had this issue, the only permanent solution i found was lace extenders. These are the ones I got. https://greatsavessports.com/skate-lace-bite-eliminators/ haven't had lace bite in years.

Edited by innotastic

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On 2/25/2020 at 6:06 PM, Vet88 said:

Out of interest, what was recommended for you?

So a few items...the CCM's I tried really weren't a ton better than the Bauers when doing the pencil test. I was surprised, the guy sizing me wasn't. He said even the CCM's seem to be coming out a little more shallow than they used to be "back in the day".

He didn't have a ton of advice for me other than I could try replacing the tongue on my old  boots since they broke down a bit. Then I showed him the 7.5 Bauers I had...he grabbed the sizing tool and had me pop my foot in there.....

He smiled and said "if you walked in today to buy new skates, I'd definitely recommend the 7.5 for you...."

I'm not sure what everyone's opinion is - but he said those laser sizing tools Bauer and some other companies use tend to suggest what he called a "pro fit" which is essentially toenails almost scraping against the toe (which is how my 6.5 supremes fit). He said for the vast majority of people, its not the most comfortable fit. He also mentioned that as I get into a smaller boot, I'm going to have less space for the ankle also (makes sense right?).

So we left it at me trying these Vapors before I do anything else. I asked him if he could make me lace extenders, he said yeah but they it would cost the same and I'm swamped so you should just buy them from greatsaves….

And then I promptly got the flu so I missed both of my games this week. I'll be trying them out next week and will report back.

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10 hours ago, innotastic said:

Can you be more specific on what kind of lace bite you are getting?

if it's in the 3rd/4th/5th eyelet area, that can be caused by skates with not enough volume. If that is the case, the jump from vapors to supremes should of fixed it.

if it's in the 1st/2nd eyelet, the issue is likely forward bend. adding more material in the form of bunga pads, lace bite pads, double tongues, wont' fix that because your are further restricting movement. I had this issue, the only permanent solution i found was lace extenders. These are the ones I got. https://greatsavessports.com/skate-lace-bite-eliminators/ haven't had lace bite in years.

I'm literally going to buy them right now. my bit area is lower around that 3/4/5 eyelet. anyone willing to post a pic for me if I send it over? I don't have it posted up on a URL

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