Back to back testing of some new and current sticks

[VegasHockey 1280]

I wish we would've made a video for this..... Maybe next time I'll ask someone to record something.

We had a bunch of high-level players together on the ice today for a few hours and decided after the end of our scrimmage we would do shooting drills. Compared sticks were the Bauer Vapor Flylite, Bauer Ultrasonic, and Bauer Nexus 2N Pro vs the CCM FT3 Pro, CCM Trigger 4 Pro, and CCM AS2 Pro. 

The FT3 Pro was absolutely the crowd favorite and took the number one spot for 90% of the players. The second was a tie for the Bauer Flylite and Nexus. Coming in next was the Trigger 4 Pro, then the AS2 Pro followed by the Ultrasonic in the last place. 

What was shocking was just how much players disliked the Ultrasonic. They felt the release was slow, shots didn't have the same power, and overall it required more work and effort than other sticks that were much more forgiving.

I can't disagree with them. I personally didn't like the stick as it felt much stiffer than the flex rating due to the new change in the kick point. The blade also didn't feel very lively compared to others. I always disliked the more recent Supreme sticks blade and weight balance. I figured this new update would maybe redeem the Supreme line back to its old glory. Unfortunately, the data says otherwise. 

Anyway. Sitting at the bar having a drink waiting for the games to start so I figured I would not this all down while it's still fresh in my mind. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW
grammar

[218hockey 50]

1 hour ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I always disliked the more recent Supreme sticks blade and weight balance. I figured this new update would maybe redeem the Supreme line back to its old glory.

Unfortunately, the data says otherwise. 

 

I don't know if I'd call this data.

But I concur, my son does not like the 2S Pro I just bought him. Glad I didn't cut the thing as I'm going to try and unload it! He'd rather have an MX3 for sure.

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, 218hockey said:

I don't know if I'd call this data.

But I concur, my son does not like the 2S Pro I just bought him. Glad I didn't cut the thing as I'm going to try and unload it! He'd rather have an MX3 for sure.

I collected a lot of data from the session. Player age, height, weight, position, shooting hand, flex, curve pattern, personal preferences (quick release, power, etc) among other information. That was just a summary. Plus, I am at the bar watching the game so I havent had a chance to dig through it all yet. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[Miller55 333]

This brings gear nerding to a whole new level. I love it. 

I have shot every stick on that list except the ultrasonic and the ft3 pro (used the ft2 and the 2s pro before, but I think they changed the kick point from the 2s pro) and I would definitely agree with most of the conclusions. I liked the as2 a lot. I would say the Nexus is preferable to the flylite to me because of the balance, but that's mostly because of the flylite blade, which I found to have a weird balance relative to the stiffness

[Giltis 116]

I've heard nothing but great things about the CCM FT3 Pro across various ages and levels. Seems like they really got everything right with the stick.

[justinpryor 5]

I have heard amazing things about the FT3 pro. BUt even better about the Nexus geo or adv. 

Ill hold out for the nexus late in the year. Every person who used the ADV said it was the most insane shooting stick ever. 

Ultrasonic is a disappointment to hear, i wont waste my money. appreciate the thread.  

[psulion22 402]

I wish you could have gotten a Nexus ADV in there too.  But this is great, thanks!  I loooove my ADV, but the P90TM curve is very enticing.  I'm happy to hear that the FT3 Pro is getting such great reviews (yours isn't the only one that says this) because it means I might be able to try out that curve on a stick I like.  I liked the P30 curve, but the Trigger2, Trigger3, and original Jetspeed I tried it on were all garbage compared to the 1X Lite, 2016 1X, and 2N Pro with P88 that I had been using (imo of course).  So I just wasn't ever able to use it.

[psulion22 402]

26 minutes ago, justinpryor said:

I have heard amazing things about the FT3 pro. BUt even better about the Nexus geo or adv. 

Ill hold out for the nexus late in the year. Every person who used the ADV said it was the most insane shooting stick ever. 

 

It is, or for me at least.  I think for a person that typically uses a low kick stick, the ADV is giving them some real improvements.  The best way I can describe it is that it's giving the power and accuracy of a mid kick with the release speed of a low.  I get almost the same power out of my 2N Pro, but the pop and release off the ADV is much better.  I'm interested to see how much of the blade tech, if any, they integrate into the Geo.  The 5 sided shaft is great too, so that's already a plus.

[justinpryor 5]

6 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

It is, or for me at least.  I think for a person that typically uses a low kick stick, the ADV is giving them some real improvements.  The best way I can describe it is that it's giving the power and accuracy of a mid kick with the release speed of a low.  I get almost the same power out of my 2N Pro, but the pop and release off the ADV is much better.  I'm interested to see how much of the blade tech, if any, they integrate into the Geo.  The 5 sided shaft is great too, so that's already a plus.

I wish i got the Nexus adv, but at the time I broke my ankle when it came out and couldnt justify buying one to wait. Then march hit and all rinks closed. I find the 2n pro dated feeling now compared to my flylite. The release feels slow. So i am hopefully for the GEO. I think the geo will have the same blade tech without the hole. Im sure they found a way. even if its literally a cover over the hole underneath. having a hole seems to scare people lol

[VegasHockey 1280]

7 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

I wish you could have gotten a Nexus ADV in there too.  But this is great, thanks!  I loooove my ADV, but the P90TM curve is very enticing.  I'm happy to hear that the FT3 Pro is getting such great reviews (yours isn't the only one that says this) because it means I might be able to try out that curve on a stick I like.  I liked the P30 curve, but the Trigger2, Trigger3, and original Jetspeed I tried it on were all garbage compared to the 1X Lite, 2016 1X, and 2N Pro with P88 that I had been using (imo of course).  So I just wasn't ever able to use it.

There were other few sticks that made their way into the testing but aren't released yet and therefore I am not allowed to share much about them without the manufacturers coming for blood. I can say if we included feedback from two of those uncounted sticks that were tested releasing later this year, the testing data results would have changed considerably. 

Many of the players who participated also use custom sticks, which is totally normal considering the level they play at, so we omitted that data from the testing as well. 

We wanted to use sticks that are general release that anyone could get their hands on, not just professionals and wanted to stay away from special or limited edition sticks. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

How does the FT3 compare to the AS2?  Specifically the kick point and stiffness/feel of the blade?

Edited August 25, 2020 by shoot_the_goalie

[VegasHockey 1280]

12 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

How does the FT3 compare to the AS2?  Specifically the kick point and stiffness/feel of the blade?

The change in kick point makes the AS2 Pro feel stiffer as compared to the Ribcor and Jetspeed models. For example, if you compared a 75 flex in both the AS2 Pro would feel more rigid. 

Both have stiff blades but the AS2 Pro is stiffer. The dampening of the Jetspeed provides a little more feedback as the AS2 is very pingy. 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[hawk11 8]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:08 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

There were other few sticks that made their way into the testing but aren't released yet and therefore I am not allowed to share much about them without the manufacturers coming for blood. I can say if we included feedback from two of those uncounted sticks that were tested releasing later this year, the testing data results would have changed considerably. 

Many of the players who participated also use custom sticks, which is totally normal considering the level they play at, so we omitted that data from the testing as well. 

We wanted to use sticks that are general release that anyone could get their hands on, not just professionals and wanted to stay away from special or limited edition sticks. 

By any chance have you talked about the other sticks that you tested, but were not able to talk about yet.  I would think they would have been released......at least one of them I think it could be...Nexus Geo?

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 1/12/2021 at 2:02 PM, hawk11 said:

By any chance have you talked about the other sticks that you tested, but were not able to talk about yet.  I would think they would have been released......at least one of them I think it could be...Nexus Geo?

We also tested the Nexus Geo, AS3 Pro, Trigger 5 Pro, and TRUE Project X, all of which ranked high. If you included those in the testing it changed the ranking considerably. I also had time to collect more info from players on some other sticks we tested as well that I originally didn't include. 

The ranking was as follows with those included:

CCM FT3 Pro
CCM AS3 Pro
CCM FT2 
Bauer Flylite
Bauer Nexus Geo
CCM Ribcor Trigger 5 Pro
CCM Trigger 4 Pro
Bauer Nexus 2N Pro
TRUE Project X
CCM AS2 Pro
Bauer Ultrasonic 
Bauer 2S Pro

Sorry for the delay in updating this. 

[psulion22 402]

Not that it's scientific in any way, but I am amending my vote to the FT3 Pro.  It doesn't quite have the same explosive shot as the Nexus ADV at the very top end.  But it shoots harder and more consistenly hard in just about every other situation.  So times where you're off balance or your technique isn't quite right, it still fires hard shots, as opposed to the ADV which gave ducks.  I like the 5 sided shaft of the Nexus better, but prefer the more lively blade of the FT3 Pro.  Add in the availability of the P90TM curve and this FT3 Pro might be the best stick I've ever used.

I broke my first one in the middle of a skate and had to switch to the Nexus ADV as the backup for the rest.  When compared directly back to back that quickly, the FT3 was the clear winner.  I drove 45 minutes one way to buy another the next day.

[VegasHockey 1280]

22 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

Not that it's scientific in any way, but I am amending my vote to the FT3 Pro.  It doesn't quite have the same explosive shot as the Nexus ADV at the very top end.  But it shoots harder and more consistenly hard in just about every other situation.  So times where you're off balance or your technique isn't quite right, it still fires hard shots, as opposed to the ADV which gave ducks.  I like the 5 sided shaft of the Nexus better, but prefer the more lively blade of the FT3 Pro.  Add in the availability of the P90TM curve and this FT3 Pro might be the best stick I've ever used.

I broke my first one in the middle of a skate and had to switch to the Nexus ADV as the backup for the rest.  When compared directly back to back that quickly, the FT3 was the clear winner.  I drove 45 minutes one way to buy another the next day.

Sounds about right. The main thing about the FT3 Pro that everyone remarked on was how forgiving the FT3 Pro. If you took a shot while balanced it was great, but its the times where the puck was outside of the shooting area or the player was off-balance that the FT3 Pro still gave a good release whereas many of the other sticks would shoot muffins. 

[psulion22 402]

4 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Sounds about right. The main thing about the FT3 Pro that everyone remarked on was how forgiving the FT3 Pro. If you took a shot while balanced it was great, but its the times where the puck was outside of the shooting area or the player was off-balance that the FT3 Pro still gave a good release whereas many of the other sticks would shoot muffins. 

Yep, exactly that.  It's not just shots either, passes (especially saucer passes) are also flatter and crisp even when reaching or off balance.  You don't get that wobbling or flipping end-over-end pass.

I'll attribute it to the "hybrid" kick point.  They have tuned it so that no matter your hand position or how you load it, it flexes somewhere and gives you energy behind the puck.

But, some of this may also be the P90TM curve as well.  Either way, I'll buy as many of these as I can get, especially once they get discounted when the FT4 comes out.

[hawk11 8]

16 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

We also tested the Nexus Geo, AS3 Pro, Trigger 5 Pro, and TRUE Project X, all of which ranked high. If you included those in the testing it changed the ranking considerably. I also had time to collect more info from players on some other sticks we tested as well that I originally didn't include. 

The ranking was as follows with those included:

CCM FT3 Pro
CCM AS3 Pro
CCM FT2 
Bauer Flylite
Bauer Nexus Geo
CCM Ribcor Trigger 5 Pro
CCM Trigger 4 Pro
Bauer Nexus 2N Pro
TRUE Project X
CCM AS2 Pro
Bauer Ultrasonic 
Bauer 2S Pro

Sorry for the delay in updating this. 

Thank you very much.

That is what I was expecting to see, but I did think the Nexus Geo would be a little higher.

Sounds like a lot of glowing reviews for the FT3.  How does the AS3 compare.  Is there really a comparison or is the FT3 just that much better. 

I guess what I would like to know, does the AS3 feel really stiff and take a long time to load while taking wrist and snap shots compared to the FT3 or Geo?

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by hawk11

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, hawk11 said:

Thank you very much.

That is what I was expecting to see, but I did think the Nexus Geo would be a little higher.

Sounds like a lot of glowing reviews for the FT3.  How does the AS3 compare.  Is there really a comparison or is the FT3 just that much better. 

I guess what I would like to know, does the AS3 feel really stiff and take a long time to load while taking wrist and snap shots compared to the FT3 or Geo?

 

 

The AS3 Pro doesn't feel overly stiff. If anything I think it feels very similar to the Nexus 2N Pro kick point with a much stiffer blade. 

[chippa13 1844]

I wouldn't put a huge amount of weight on the results of this "test". Everybody has their own preference for kickpoints and flex profiles. If you ask someone to "test" something with a different kickpoint and/or flex profile than they are used to then of course something is going to feel off and not to their liking, especially at first. And generally, the higher you go up the hockey food chain, the more this will be the case.

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 hours ago, chippa13 said:

I wouldn't put a huge amount of weight on the results of this "test". Everybody has their own preference for kickpoints and flex profiles. If you ask someone to "test" something with a different kickpoint and/or flex profile than they are used to then of course something is going to feel off and not to their liking, especially at first. And generally, the higher you go up the hockey food chain, the more this will be the case.

I somewhat agree, however considering we had about 30 players testing I think that does help balance things out a little bit. 

The next time we test I want to use a much large sample set, various skill levels, ages, etc.

Once the Vegas store is officially open and we have the outdoor shooting area setup this will make collecting data much easier. 

[stick9 884]

The real issue with this sort of testing is players tend to base their comments of a comparison to their current stick. That's a moving target and offers little to no baseline. What you should try to do is get testers to use a "control" stick before testing, something you know. All comments and opinions should be made in comparison to the control.

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, stick9 said:

The real issue with this sort of testing is players tend to base their comments of a comparison to their current stick. That's a moving target and offers little to no baseline. What you should try to do is get testers to use a "control" stick before testing, something you know. All comments and opinions should be made in comparison to the control.

Wouldn't their current stick be their control stick?

Also, after testing a lot of players officially changed from their previous stick brand to something else they tested.

Edited January 17, 2021 by SkateWorksPNW

[nutters 218]

2 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Wouldn't their current stick be their control stick?

Also, after testing a lot of players officially changed from their previous stick brand to something else they tested.

well it's control because you distributed it, so everyone begins from the same point of reference when you make your report.

[stick9 884]

On 1/17/2021 at 1:46 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

Wouldn't their current stick be their control stick?

Also, after testing a lot of players officially changed from their previous stick brand to something else they tested.

Not in terms of testing. Think of it as zero-ing out the scale before weighing something.

If you're collecting data to present in any sort of meaningful way, you need to zero out testers. I suppose you could record the model and flex of each testers current stick. Even then, each testers is sort of in a vacuum. Maybe you can make the argument that all testers using stick x as their current stick said stick y had better puck feel...

Right now your data only means something to the subject. Your last comment is a really good indication of that. 

EDIT - Actually now that I think about it. Recording testers current stick along with their height, weight and level of play would be helpful. The end user could say, I want to see what 1N users thought about the FT3. Tire Rack does this with their customer reviews. You can sort reviews by vehicle type and or location. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by stick9