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PBH

Ellipse Profiles – The next revolution in skate profiling?

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@PBH, @kkskate. Hey guys. I've noticed a pretty big difference in the "components" if-you-will, of the Hyperlites size 5.5 and size 6. It seems to be a border where Bauer uses bigger components (tendon guard and tongue very obvious, and overall boot size when you look at them). In addition, the inside/insole of the skate. If you take out the stock liners, or whatever we call them, and actually compare at the foot beds, the 5.5 has a white almost wooly-type appearance, while the 6 has a silver-colored 'graphite' look. Can't figure out how to post the pics here...

Either of you folks know what happens regarding the construction and hence the differences of these two half-size-differentiated skates? I'm asking because I am caught in between buying size 6 fit 2, or size 5.5 fit 3 (both have 254mm runners which I want to stay at)? I'm about 5'9", 175-180 and would consider myself an advanced skater; would one hold up better that the other, one softer than the other, etc.?

Again, many thanks in advance folks.
 

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11 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

Both boots have the same length, 25,1 cm. If Fit 2 fits you best, you should tkake Fit 2, and vice versa. 

Hi @hockeydad3. You think both size 5.5, fit 3, and size 6, fit 2 have the same length boot? I've been measuring them several times and they are very close, perhaps millimeters in diff, but have noticed some diff. nonetheless. And of course can feel slight differences. 
When I look at the outsole as well, there is an evident difference in length there as can been seen by where the blade holder sits in relevance to the lip at the front and back; again millimeters. Do you know if there is a diff in flex of the boot, materials or overall construction as mentioned in my previous post?

Thanks.

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I don't know about the other differences. But Bauer EE  and Fit 3 size skate boots are a half size longer than D or Fit 1+2. You can see this in the sizing charts for the runners and for the Bauer speedplate insoles. 

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Hi guys,

I am looking for a profile recommendation.

Backstory: I recently upgraded from a x800 vapor to a 3x pro vapor (size 9.5).
Straight line speed feels good but having trouble with smooth turns and especially braking (really having trouble with my left foot). I found out that i went from a 9ft single radius profile to a 10ft radius, judging by Bauers description.
Another thought is that my old Blade is max 2/3 of the heigth of the new one, so i am bit afraid that the different sharpeners grinded a bit of a custom profile into the steel. I really liked something around 1/2 inch RoH for an strong grip for tight turns and general agility.

Any recommendations (looking at quad or ellipse profiles)?

Thanks in advance!

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1 hour ago, HockeyTactics said:

Hi guys,

I am looking for a profile recommendation.

Backstory: I recently upgraded from a x800 vapor to a 3x pro vapor (size 9.5).
Straight line speed feels good but having trouble with smooth turns and especially braking (really having trouble with my left foot). I found out that i went from a 9ft single radius profile to a 10ft radius, judging by Bauers description.
Another thought is that my old Blade is max 2/3 of the heigth of the new one, so i am bit afraid that the different sharpeners grinded a bit of a custom profile into the steel. I really liked something around 1/2 inch RoH for an strong grip for tight turns and general agility.

Any recommendations (looking at quad or ellipse profiles)?

Thanks in advance!

Hi @HockeyTactics, I’ve been asking a lot of questions here also. I like both the profiles you’ve mentioned; starting to sway towards the ellipse now, just feels really good for me in all scenarios. I’m on a 263 runner at the moment and I THINK it’s an ellipse 0 (the guy I borrowed from doesn’t know, just had his equipment guy do it), I also don’t know if there is any pitch added to it (standard prosharp ellipse 0 would have 20mm forward pitch). This is what I’m in the process of finding out now. 
 

in all, I like both, but prefer the ellipse. 

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1 hour ago, HockeyTactics said:

Hi guys,

I am looking for a profile recommendation.

Backstory: I recently upgraded from a x800 vapor to a 3x pro vapor (size 9.5).
Straight line speed feels good but having trouble with smooth turns and especially braking (really having trouble with my left foot). I found out that i went from a 9ft single radius profile to a 10ft radius, judging by Bauers description.
Another thought is that my old Blade is max 2/3 of the heigth of the new one, so i am bit afraid that the different sharpeners grinded a bit of a custom profile into the steel. I really liked something around 1/2 inch RoH for an strong grip for tight turns and general agility.

Any recommendations (looking at quad or ellipse profiles)?

Thanks in advance!

If you are coming from a radius probably smaller than 9' you will have similar problems with an adequate Quad or Ellipse profile and a 1/2" hollow. Even if you go down one or two sizes. At first I would try a flatter hollow, maybe 5/8" or even 11/16" and adapt a bit to the new profile. After this a Quad Zero could be a good starting point to find a suiting multiradius profile for you. 

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7 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

I don't know about the other differences. But Bauer EE  and Fit 3 size skate boots are a half size longer than D or Fit 1+2. You can see this in the sizing charts for the runners and for the Bauer speedplate insoles. 

1/2 sizes in EE and Fit 3 use a holder one size up from D and Fit 1 and 2.  Doesn't mean the skate is a 1/2 size bigger.  Bauer skates in EE and Fit 3 are 1/4 size bigger.  

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5 hours ago, mojo122 said:

1/2 sizes in EE and Fit 3 use a holder one size up from D and Fit 1 and 2.  Doesn't mean the skate is a 1/2 size bigger.  Bauer skates in EE and Fit 3 are 1/4 size bigger.  

Bigger or longer?

And what about the sizing chart for the speedplate insoles?

https://www.hockeyunlimited.fi/epages/hockeyunlimited.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2014061601/Categories/Bauer_Speed_Plate_20_kokotaulukko

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13 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

If you are coming from a radius probably smaller than 9' you will have similar problems with an adequate Quad or Ellipse profile and a 1/2" hollow. Even if you go down one or two sizes. At first I would try a flatter hollow, maybe 5/8" or even 11/16" and adapt a bit to the new profile. After this a Quad Zero could be a good starting point to find a suiting multiradius profile for you. 

ok yeah makes sense that my current hollow might be a bit too aggressive for these profiles to shine.

I understood i get the agility for turning of a smaller single radius profile and for the long strides i get a bigger radius profile.

Seems like you guys don't really recommend the ellipse. The shared experiences also seems very mixed to me. Pro Sharp Marketing always talks about it being a Zuperior/ Quad profile with steady/continous transitions rather then instant radii changes. This kinda implies to me that they think the ellipse is the next development stage of the fixed radii profiles.

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20 hours ago, HockeyTactics said:

ok yeah makes sense that my current hollow might be a bit too aggressive for these profiles to shine.

I understood i get the agility for turning of a smaller single radius profile and for the long strides i get a bigger radius profile.

Seems like you guys don't really recommend the ellipse. The shared experiences also seems very mixed to me. Pro Sharp Marketing always talks about it being a Zuperior/ Quad profile with steady/continous transitions rather then instant radii changes. This kinda implies to me that they think the ellipse is the next development stage of the fixed radii profiles.

FWIW I love the ellipse.

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36 minutes ago, HockeyTactics said:

true but just scrolling through the 8 pages i got the impression  that the quad seems to be more popular

Quad is absolutely more popular.

Out of all the profiles we do, about 600 per year, I only have one customer who has stuck with the Ellipse. All of the others changed back to a Quad, Triple or dual radii profile either immediately or soon after trying the Ellipse.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

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27 minutes ago, PBH said:

Quad is absolutely more popular.

Out of all the profiles we do, about 600 per year, I only have one customer who has stuck with the Ellipse. All of the others changed back to a Quad, Triple or dual radii profile either immediately or soon after trying the Ellipse.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

Wow, interesting. I'll be this week trying a Quad XS on a 254mm holder; I'll report back then.

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1 hour ago, HockeyTactics said:

true but just scrolling through the 8 pages i got the impression  that the quad seems to be more popular

Yea, but they are not you. If you can get your hands on an ellipse, give it a shot! 

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46 minutes ago, PBH said:

Quad is absolutely more popular.

Out of all the profiles we do, about 600 per year, I only have one customer who has stuck with the Ellipse. All of the others changed back to a Quad, Triple or dual radii profile either immediately or soon after trying the Ellipse.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

Facts are facts so I can't disagree with other findings though I've had a lot of players stick with the Ellipse.  Most players who are already happy on the Quad end up sticking with the Quad over the Ellipse.  As @PBH mentioned the higher level players love the Quad.  It seems to offer maximum quickness and agility.  On the flip side many skaters who were trying profiles for the first time preferred the Ellipse over the Quad.  It's possible the Ellipse is a slightly more balanced profile than the Quad and works better for certain players.

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6 minutes ago, kkskate said:

Facts are facts so I can't disagree with other findings though I've had a lot of players stick with the Ellipse.  Most players who are already happy on the Quad end up sticking with the Quad over the Ellipse.  As @PBH mentioned the higher level players love the Quad.  It seems to offer maximum quickness and agility.  On the flip side many skaters who were trying profiles for the first time preferred the Ellipse over the Quad.  It's possible the Ellipse is a slightly more balanced profile than the Quad and works better for certain players.

Hi @kkskate. Yea, that's the boat I fall into. I've just in past few months discovered profiling (been away from the game for 15+ years) and have been doing a lot of alternating. Found the Quad great as well, though have been leaning towards the Ellipse when considering my last 6-8 hours have been on it. I will very soon have both profiles on a 254 holder, will try them often interchangeably and will certainly be sharing all my opinions here; this stuff is so much fun! 

And you folks who have more experience with them, yourself, @PBH
 and some others' opinions are so very much appreciated. Thanks again to you all.

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2 hours ago, PBH said:

Quad is absolutely more popular.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

Interesting.  Was there common consensus as to what they disliked about it?  

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15 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Interesting.  Was there common consensus as to what they disliked about it?  

They felt like they lost too much agility due to surface area contact between the ice and steel.

Basically, the Ellipse felt too long. Many players commented that the Ellipse felt more similar to a Zuperior than a Quad. 

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13 minutes ago, PBH said:

They felt like they lost too much agility due to surface area contact between the ice and steel.

Basically, the Ellipse felt too long. Many players commented that the Ellipse felt more similar to a Zuperior than a Quad. 

Interesting. Because Pro Sharp claims that the Power Profile (ie. Quad) has the most blade in contact with the ice at all times throughout whole stride (albeit I think that claim may have been made prior to the birth of the ellipse). I can't remember if I read it, or was on one of their YouTube vids.

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21 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

Interesting. Because Pro Sharp claims that the Power Profile (ie. Quad) has the most blade in contact with the ice at all times throughout whole stride (albeit I think that claim may have been made prior to the birth of the ellipse). I can't remember if I read it, or was on one of their YouTube vids.

Not sure how that could be the case as 10/20 or Zuperior M would have more steel in contact with the ice than a Quad 1. The "working area" of of those profiles has a longer combined average. 

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12 minutes ago, PBH said:

Not sure how that could be the case as 10/20 or Zuperior M would have more steel in contact with the ice than a Quad 1. The "working area" of of those profiles has a longer combined average. 

Yes, the specs would tell us so. Maybe it was something like "optimal amount of blade in contact at all times."

Here's a quote from @kkskate webpage, maybe this is what I am remembering, tho I thought I read/heard as I stated above:

"Quad profiles are designed with four different radii's which are strategically placed on the same blade profile to provide perfect blade contact with the ice in ALL situations."

Maybe I'm confusing "perfect blade contact" with "most...."?

In any event, thanks again PBH.

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1 hour ago, Ric_Flair said:

Yes, the specs would tell us so. Maybe it was something like "optimal amount of blade in contact at all times."

Here's a quote from @kkskate webpage, maybe this is what I am remembering, tho I thought I read/heard as I stated above:

"Quad profiles are designed with four different radii's which are strategically placed on the same blade profile to provide perfect blade contact with the ice in ALL situations."

Maybe I'm confusing "perfect blade contact" with "most...."?

In any event, thanks again PBH.

Correct.  Perfect blade contact for different situations is not necessarily the most ice contact.  The shorter radius in the front of many of the profiles gives less ice contact though enables you to move much quicker.  "Perfect" is obviously very subjective and will vary based on the skaters skill, style, and size.

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2 minutes ago, kkskate said:

Correct.  Perfect blade contact for different situations is not necessarily the most ice contact.  The shorter radius in the front of many of the profiles gives less ice contact though enables you to move much quicker.  "Perfect" is obviously very subjective and will vary based on the skaters skill, style, and size.

Well said @kkskate, makes "perfect" sense. Thanks for ringing in! 

Have an awesome day everyone.

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