CCM 2021 skate questions

[flip12 714]

33 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

It’s not just a simple pricing calculation for one product.  They have to have a model where they can offer a product at a price people will pay, have enough volume for it even to make sense, and look at profitability over an entire product line.

You're right, maybe "simple" wasn't the right adjective. I agree with your insistence that it involves more than setting a price on a single tier. It seems it didn't come through in my last post, but in an effort to be brief, I didn't elaborate on how that not-so-simple calculation would necessarily involve a reevaluation of the entire line underneath the custom tier, as the mapping between previous top tier skate sales and new custom skate sales wouldn't be 1:1. That's why I was envisioning the calculation would have a volume range estimate, hinting at the indirect translation between current and imagined skate lineup schemes.

[Leif 161]

For UK sales you have to include the cost shipping skates by air from Quebec, Canada or elsewhere in North America. Then you have the relative cost of labour, North America is a high wage area compared to China, or wherever stock skates are made. They will save some money by not having to store stock in warehouses, and not having to sell off excess stock at a potential loss when the new model is introduced. And they will not have to guess what quantity of each model and fit to make. They have almost implemented just in time (JIT) manufacturing. 

As far as I know there is only one shop in the UK that sells CCM custom skates, and I don’t know if there is any good reason for a non hot shot rec player to opt for CCM over Bauer and True when the journey to buy them is 250 miles each way. 

[Left Wing King 50]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

For UK sales you have to include the cost shipping skates by air from Quebec, Canada or elsewhere in North America. Then you have the relative cost of labour, North America is a high wage area compared to China, or wherever stock skates are made. They will save some money by not having to store stock in warehouses, and not having to sell off excess stock at a potential loss when the new model is introduced. And they will not have to guess what quantity of each model and fit to make. They have almost implemented just in time (JIT) manufacturing. 

As far as I know there is only one shop in the UK that sells CCM custom skates, and I don’t know if there is any good reason for a non hot shot rec player to opt for CCM over Bauer and True when the journey to buy them is 250 miles each way. 

Tbf depends where you live, only reason I'd ever go for that is if I couldn't get my foot to fit into a pair of retail skates. 

[stick9 890]

7 hours ago, Leif said:

For UK sales you have to include the cost shipping skates by air from Quebec, Canada or elsewhere in North America. Then you have the relative cost of labour, North America is a high wage area compared to China, or wherever stock skates are made. They will save some money by not having to store stock in warehouses, and not having to sell off excess stock at a potential loss when the new model is introduced. And they will not have to guess what quantity of each model and fit to make. They have almost implemented just in time (JIT) manufacturing. 

As far as I know there is only one shop in the UK that sells CCM custom skates, and I don’t know if there is any good reason for a non hot shot rec player to opt for CCM over Bauer and True when the journey to buy them is 250 miles each way. 

All that can be handled. There are a lot of business that operate under a build to order (BTO) model. I don't know if CCM has the staff to do so, but it's certainly doable. 

Cost wise, I bet it's closer than you think. Yes labor in NA is higher but you save money on tariffs and shipping. You're already paying $1k, what's an extra $50-60 bucks.

Edited May 4, 2021 by stick9

[raganblink 82]

6 hours ago, stick9 said:

All that can be handled. There are a lot of business that operate under a build to order (BTO) model. I don't know if CCM has the staff to do so, but it's certainly doable. 

Cost wise, I bet it's closer than you think. Yes labor in NA is higher but you save money on tariffs and shipping. You're already paying $1k, what's an extra $50-60 bucks.

Absolutely nothing. That's why no one blinked when sticks went from $199 to $249 to $299. Or top-end skates being $499 to $599 to $799 to $849 to $899 to $949 to $999. Or helmets going from $69 to $99 to $139 to $199 to $299 to $399...

 

As for becoming a JIT manufacture, the biggest pro is what was mentioned by Leif, you will never have excess stock that needs sold off nor will you have a warehouse storing that or accounts that do not pay their bill, etc. However there is a demand for players going into a store and getting a high-end product that despite however much they want that to go away, most likely never will. I think one solution they could or should get to would be offering one retail top-end skate, in one fit, and making that your offering for a top-end skate. If you need a FIT 3 for instance and you want a top-end boot, go custom. Otherwise buy the $600 skate. For the $1000 skate it only comes in 4-12, half sizes, 1 fit, 1 model. 

Knowing these companies, I'm presuming that the financial costs outweigh any pros for them to offer this. At the end of the day they are a business and need to profit, and cut as many areas as necessary in order to increase their profit as much as possible. There is a reason you can only buy 4-6 colorways on gloves these days, and they don't make every model pant in royal blue or red, or the forgotten maroon and greens. Just didn't make financial sense to stock those items, so they pushed a lot of teams to go MTO custom ordering. 

[Jason 65]

I was just looking through the newest CCM catalog and noticed that the material used for the shells of the FT4 Pro and 100K skates (Reinforced Fiberglass Material) are different than the material for the AS3 Pro's (Carbon Composite). I have had custom FT1s and AS1s for my last two pairs of skates and an trying to figure out what is next for me. I preferred the fit profile of the Jetspeeds, but I definitely like the construction and stiffness of the Tacks better. I was told that you can get the Jetspeeds with a Tacks stiffness (215). I'm wondering if you can get the Jetspeeds made with the same carbon composite material though or if it's just a stiffer RFM composite. Does anyone have the insider info on that?

[SolarWind 23]

Interesting find. Carbon is stiffer and stronger than fibreglass, which explains why Tacks are stiffer than Jetspeeds & Ribcores. Makes me wonder what they do at the factory for Total Custom orders when a customer asks for the same stiffness on the latter as the former? Change the material or just layer it thicker? 

[Jason 65]

That's exactly what I'm trying to find out. I may have to contact the rep that took care of my last customs. He did tell me that Jetspeeds could be made as stiff, but I'm not sure how.

[SolarWind 23]

Do keep us posted since they say there is multiple level of stiffness - retail, pro and extra stiff or something like that.

however given that retain one-piece skates are already stiffer they two-piece even Jetspeeds are stiffer than Ultrasonics and Vapors...

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:14 PM, Jason said:

I was just looking through the newest CCM catalog and noticed that the material used for the shells of the FT4 Pro and 100K skates (Reinforced Fiberglass Material) are different than the material for the AS3 Pro's (Carbon Composite). I have had custom FT1s and AS1s for my last two pairs of skates and an trying to figure out what is next for me. I preferred the fit profile of the Jetspeeds, but I definitely like the construction and stiffness of the Tacks better. I was told that you can get the Jetspeeds with a Tacks stiffness (215). I'm wondering if you can get the Jetspeeds made with the same carbon composite material though or if it's just a stiffer RFM composite. Does anyone have the insider info on that?

You can get reinforced Jetspeed skates but it does not change the structural composition of the boot. 

[boo10 323]

CCM is moving to a three fit system on the Jetspeed and Ribcor this year, and next year for the Tacks.  As a result the question will be irrelevant by next year as you will be able to get Tacks in a thin, regular or wide fit.  There will no longer be a "Jetspeed fit".

[flip12 714]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:36 AM, SolarWind said:

Do keep us posted since they say there is multiple level of stiffness - retail, pro and extra stiff or something like that.

however given that retain one-piece skates are already stiffer they two-piece even Jetspeeds are stiffer than Ultrasonics and Vapors...

One piece boots tend to be stronger where the quarters turn into the sole of the boot, but they are not automatically stiffer overall. FT1s had a nice give to them in the quarters, much more than 2S Pros. TF7s also have a notable suppleness compared to Tacks say.

[Jason 65]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:03 AM, PBH said:

You can get reinforced Jetspeed skates but it does not change the structural composition of the boot. 

Not saying I don't trust you because that was what I was thinking was probably the case, but how do you know this? What is your source?

Also, would it be possible to essentially duplicate the Jetspeed shape (last) on a Tacks boot? I found my custom Jetspeeds were lower volume in the heel/ankle/Achilles area and I like that.

[skyscrape 5]

On 5/2/2021 at 6:54 AM, gosinger said:

Speaking retail, APX1 were Curv/Alive, as were APX2.

Last top-model tech mesh was the x:60 (the generation before the APX1 was introduced), prior to that the XXXX, and the XXX before that. Don't know about earlier models as those pre-date me playing hockey.
Same year that the APX1 was released, the x7.0 (not X7.0, which was mid-tier) was the second-tier skate that was identical to the x:60/XXXX.

The APX1 was extremely stiff, with a tongue that offered very little protection. APX2 was said to be less stiff in the boot, as plenty of people complained. So I wouldn't be surprised if the APX1 retail is stiffer than what is out now in retail.

Pro-Stock there was the Nexus 1N/7000 V-Cut, which was a x7.0 re-dressed as a Nexus skate.

Thanks for the response. I guess I’ll throw new runners on and wear these until something falls apart. 😂

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:02 PM, Jason said:

Not saying I don't trust you because that was what I was thinking was probably the case, but how do you know this? What is your source?

Also, would it be possible to essentially duplicate the Jetspeed shape (last) on a Tacks boot? I found my custom Jetspeeds were lower volume in the heel/ankle/Achilles area and I like that.

My source? I own a store. http://penaltyboxhockey.com

The closest you can get similar lasts between models is if you go full custom. Even then the last will have subtle differences since the boots are made from different materials and have different design elements, symmetrical vs asymmetrical, for example.

[Cavs019 708]

How do the new CCM fits square up to the old lasts? If a D Jetspeed fits me perfectly will that sync up with a regular?

Or should I be stocking up on closeout FT490s...🙃

Edited May 30, 2021 by Cavs019

[Jason 65]

19 hours ago, PBH said:

My source? I own a store. http://penaltyboxhockey.com

The closest you can get similar lasts between models is if you go full custom. Even then the last will have subtle differences since the boots are made from different materials and have different design elements, symmetrical vs asymmetrical, for example.

Thanks @PBH, much appreciated. This will help me make a more informed decision on my next pair of wheels. I'm surprised that they don't use carbon fiber on the top Jetspeed model.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:27 AM, Cavs019 said:

How do the new CCM fits square up to the old lasts? If a D Jetspeed fits me perfectly will that sync up with a regular?

Or should I be stocking up on closeout FT490s...🙃

The tapered fit would be very similar to a standard D Jetspeed FT1/FT2. 

 

On 5/30/2021 at 11:52 AM, Jason said:

Thanks @PBH, much appreciated. This will help me make a more informed decision on my next pair of wheels. I'm surprised that they don't use carbon fiber on the top Jetspeed model.

You're welcome. The Jetspeed is a composite, but not full carbon composite. This is because they needed the boot to be slightly more flexible.