true shift holder

[Ellipsing 0]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:10 PM, start_today said:

When people shifted (ahem) from previous skates to Trues, did you keep the same profile as your previous skates? Coming from 2S skates with quad .5. Holder length is the same, 272. 

Going to stick it out with the Shift holder and stock steel for now. 

I know I need to just try stuff and see how it feels, but hoping to get some input and have a good starting point, so I’m not burning through steel and money trying different profiles. 

I have ellipse zero on ultrasonics and getting true customs soon. Im gonna try the 20mm pitch first then go down to 15 then 10. As stock pro sharp profiles have 20mm pitch built in. Ill update this thread after trying. But im sure the holders higher pitch is going to be noticeable. I skated back to back tf9s and ultrasonics. The tf9s feel like skating in high heels. Will take some testing to dial in. If that doesnt work put tuuks on and go. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Ellipsing

[VegasHockey 1280]

21 hours ago, Ellipsing said:

I have ellipse zero on ultrasonics and getting true customs soon. Im gonna try the 20mm pitch first then go down to 15 then 10. As stock pro sharp profiles have 20mm pitch built in. Ill update this thread after trying. But im sure the holders higher pitch is going to be noticeable. I skated back to back tf9s and ultrasonics. The tf9s feel like skating in high heels. Will take some testing to dial in. If that doesnt work put tuuks on and go. 

I would go the opposite way. 0 pitch, 10mm, 20mm. It's easier for profiling. 

[start_today 770]

I went from 2Ss to TF7s. Bauers had a quad 0.5 on step steel.  I left the the stock profiles on the TF7s (omg don't tell anyone I’m skating on stock profiles). I felt a little on my toes at first, but have totally adjusted to it. 

The overall forward lean of the skates really rewards you for bent knees and proper form. If I’m being lazy and “standing up” when I play, I feel less responsive overall. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

16 hours ago, start_today said:

I went from 2Ss to TF7s. Bauers had a quad 0.5 on step steel.  I left the the stock profiles on the TF7s (omg don't tell anyone I’m skating on stock profiles). I felt a little on my toes at first, but have totally adjusted to it. 

The overall forward lean of the skates really rewards you for bent knees and proper form. If I’m being lazy and “standing up” when I play, I feel less responsive overall. 

The TRUE stock profile is actually very popular in North America. 

[BenBreeg 493]

43 minutes ago, PBH said:

The TRUE stock profile is actually very popular in North America. 

I would imagine all stock profiles are popular (because people don’t get them profiled).  I wonder what the percentages are for people who actually get their skates profiled.  I would say of the guys I play with, including the random high-level one or two, hardly anybody does it.  The store I get my skates at, and my sons and others, it has never been suggested we profile, I just knew I wanted it and which profile.  One guy even thought it was weird I wanted my son’s done.  And they are one of the two I know about that do it in town.

What do you and other store owners see?  What are the demographics?

[VegasHockey 1280]

5 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

I would imagine all stock profiles are popular (because people don’t get them profiled).  I wonder what the percentages are for people who actually get their skates profiled.  I would say of the guys I play with, including the random high-level one or two, hardly anybody does it.  The store I get my skates at, and my sons and others, it has never been suggested we profile, I just knew I wanted it and which profile.  One guy even thought it was weird I wanted my son’s done.  And they are one of the two I know about that do it in town.

What do you and other store owners see?  What are the demographics?

In Canada, almost every single player gets their skates profiled. It's almost expected when a customer is buying a pair of skates that they get the steel profiled. It's definitely not as popular in the US but is growing slowly. 

I can break down our metrics. 

Beginners don't typically ask for profiling. When presented as an option they usually decline either because they dont see a benefit or dont want to spend the money. According to metrics pulled from our sales that is about 8% of beginner skate sales and this represents 38% of our skate sales total. 

Intermediate/advanced players have a much higher percentage. Many ask for profiling or want us to match their existing profile with the replicator. This percentage is 36% of intermediate/advanced skate sales and accounts for 62% of our skate sales. 

Replacement steel we see about 65% of customers request profiling or profile matching. 

[start_today 770]

14 hours ago, PBH said:

In Canada, almost every single player gets their skates profiled. It's almost expected when a customer is buying a pair of skates that they get the steel profiled. It's definitely not as popular in the US but is growing slowly. 

I can break down our metrics. 

Beginners don't typically ask for profiling. When presented as an option they usually decline either because they dont see a benefit or dont want to spend the money. According to metrics pulled from our sales that is about 8% of beginner skate sales and this represents 38% of our skate sales total. 

Intermediate/advanced players have a much higher percentage. Many ask for profiling or want us to match their existing profile with the replicator. This percentage is 36% of intermediate/advanced skate sales and accounts for 62% of our skate sales. 

Replacement steel we see about 65% of customers request profiling or profile matching. 

How much of your “matching existing profiles” is essentially banana-ing the brand new steel to match the old steel that was been ruined by consistent poor sharpening and other shops? 

[Larry54 243]

6 hours ago, start_today said:

How much of your “matching existing profiles” is essentially banana-ing the brand new steel to match the old steel that was been ruined by consistent poor sharpening and other shops? 

I also wonder about the validity of matching old profiles unless there is a way to record that banana-ed profile so you can re-apply it to new steel or to a profile refresh later on. Otherwise, the matched banana profile gets corrupted even more with further sharpening, and the player adjusts his muscle memory to it so on the next profile-copying it gets even more banana-ed, etc. A player should find his profile and stick to it even if it takes a bit of re-adjusting to it when it gets reset.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Larry54

[Hills 713]

On 12/11/2021 at 7:56 PM, PBH said:

In Canada, almost every single player gets their skates profiled. It's almost expected when a customer is buying a pair of skates that they get the steel profiled. It's definitely not as popular in the US but is growing slowly. 

That is absolutely not the experience of what I saw in stores I've worked in or through talking to people playing hockey.

It hasn't become a popular thing with skates until stores realized they could add it as an extra charge of pure margin to a skate that they started pushing people into lower end skates and making up the difference in price with insoles and profiles.

I can say out of all of my adult teams, probably 5 out of 50 players know what a profile is and have had one done.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:15 AM, start_today said:

How much of your “matching existing profiles” is essentially banana-ing the brand new steel to match the old steel that was been ruined by consistent poor sharpening and other shops? 

More than I care to admit. It literally kills me on the inside to do this. 

 

On 12/12/2021 at 10:10 AM, Larry54 said:

A player should find his profile and stick to it even if it takes a bit of re-adjusting to it when it gets reset.

Agreed.

22 hours ago, Hills said:

That is absolutely not the experience of what I saw in stores I've worked in or through talking to people playing hockey.

It hasn't become a popular thing with skates until stores realized they could add it as an extra charge of pure margin to a skate that they started pushing people into lower end skates and making up the difference in price with insoles and profiles.

I can say out of all of my adult teams, probably 5 out of 50 players know what a profile is and have had one done.

Maybe it varies by location, not sure where in the great white north you live but in the west, profiling is extremely common. When I lived in Seattle I spent a lot of time in Vancouver and the best pro shops there tend to sell a profile with almost every pair of skates or steel. The stores I owned in Seattle also saw many players visit from the north and many players were excited we had ProSharp machines since that wouldn't "ruin their profiles." 

I would note many players don't even know they have or have had a profile. For example, anyone skating on Bladetech steel is skating on a profile since they come with a triple radius. Byonic also has a dual radius profile applied out of the box. 

Keep in mind that profiling can be something as simple as shaving the toe, or applying a single radius, such as an 11' profile on new steel with a minor forward pitch. It doesn't always need to be something fancy.

Typical players just know they like one steel more than another, not even understanding that various brands have different profiles applied from the factory or have different steel shapes. 

[flip12 715]

20 hours ago, PBH said:

More than I care to admit. It literally kills me on the inside to do this. 

 

Agreed.

Maybe it varies by location, not sure where in the great white north you live but in the west, profiling is extremely common. When I lived in Seattle I spent a lot of time in Vancouver and the best pro shops there tend to sell a profile with almost every pair of skates or steel. The stores I owned in Seattle also saw many players visit from the north and many players were excited we had ProSharp machines since that wouldn't "ruin their profiles." 

I would note many players don't even know they have or have had a profile. For example, anyone skating on Bladetech steel is skating on a profile since they come with a triple radius. Byonic also has a dual radius profile applied out of the box. 

Keep in mind that profiling can be something as simple as shaving the toe, or applying a single radius, such as an 11' profile on new steel with a minor forward pitch. It doesn't always need to be something fancy.

Typical players just know they like one steel more than another, not even understanding that various brands have different profiles applied from the factory or have different steel shapes. 

I met a former Swedish pro from the Toronto area who said he loved Grafs “because their radius is so short I can just spin like a top on them.” I didn’t have the heart to tell him Cobras had the longest stock profile on the market.

[SolarWind 23]

Like up until 10 years ago I used to profile LS blades because there was no such thing as “stock profile” - everything was so inconsistent. But then STEP came along with their standard 10’ neutral profile and after adjusting to it I felt no need to fiddle with it. Coming from a forward 9’ profile the stock profile from STEP def promoted a more upright lazy skating style…

now it’s been over a week of skating on Flare that PBH was kind to supply me with and I’m still adjusting to something as minor as moving the balance point back by 2mm lol I think it’s more agile but I have to work for it by staying low or I start losing the track edge over the toes.

i’m really happy though I didn’t put shift on my trues and went with Edge instead since Shift is 3mm forward pitched comparing to Edge - a big adjustment to me personally.

Edited December 20, 2021 by SolarWind

[danottoman 0]

Just a thought. Wouldn't the incline of the new boot have just as much of an effect on skating slant as the holder? Seems to me the only way to know for sure what the problem is would be to bring the entire skate to your local profiler and tell them what you are feeling so they can profile what you are looking for into the blade. 

Something else to think about. I always send my steel to NoIcingSports.com to get profiled. When I switched CCM Ribcore to True TF7 I sent the steel off and had them profiled exactly as my CCMs were, which is a dual 8"/14" and FBV 100/50 sharpen. My first skate was terrible, I felt off balance and timid with my edges. I went back and forth with noicingsports.com on possible ideas about what the problem could be, but THEN I remembered that I had forgotten to bring my Superfeet insoles over to the TF7s. Problem was immediately solved once the Superfeet were in the Trues. Edges were back and I felt planted. 

What I'm getting at is it doesn't take much to throw off your MOJO. I'm 53 years old and need all the MOJO I can get. 

 

 

[Sniper9 530]

9 hours ago, danottoman said:

Just a thought. Wouldn't the incline of the new boot have just as much of an effect on skating slant as the holder? Seems to me the only way to know for sure what the problem is would be to bring the entire skate to your local profiler and tell them what you are feeling so they can profile what you are looking for into the blade. 

Something else to think about. I always send my steel to NoIcingSports.com to get profiled. When I switched CCM Ribcore to True TF7 I sent the steel off and had them profiled exactly as my CCMs were, which is a dual 8"/14" and FBV 100/50 sharpen. My first skate was terrible, I felt off balance and timid with my edges. I went back and forth with noicingsports.com on possible ideas about what the problem could be, but THEN I remembered that I had forgotten to bring my Superfeet insoles over to the TF7s. Problem was immediately solved once the Superfeet were in the Trues. Edges were back and I felt planted. 

What I'm getting at is it doesn't take much to throw off your MOJO. I'm 53 years old and need all the MOJO I can get. 

 

 

Some people are more particular than others for sure. For me I've been on tuuks and sb holders forever. I tried the shift holders for the first time with my current cat pros. I had the shift steel profiled to my usual quad zero. It felt a touch diff but nothing crazy. I did feel like I was a bit on my heels though compared to my trues on SB holders which is the opposite of what most ppl say. I got jrz/step steel and had them profiled to quad zero and when I skated on them I felt a bit more on my toes / felt more close to my tuuk and SB holder setup. So for me it was more the steel than the holder and boot making it feel different.  But this couldve been more the skate tech that profiled my shift steel vs the guy who did my jrz as I got them at different places. I have a feeling the person who did my shift steel didn't make the balance points and pitch neutral. 

Also I noticed on my cat pros/shift holders doing 1/2" hollow feels more like a 9/16 with my old SB holder step steel setup on my tf customs. I got 9/16" on my cat pros and it felt like 5/8. So the shift holders def causes me to require a ROH with my bite.  

[krisdrum 233]

I am assuming the hole patterns between Shift and Shift Max holders are the same, but can someone confirm?  Considering making the switch as I've noticed my Shift holder and steel have been squeaking/popping when walking lately.  

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, krisdrum said:

I am assuming the hole patterns between Shift and Shift Max holders are the same, but can someone confirm?  Considering making the switch as I've noticed my Shift holder and steel have been squeaking/popping when walking lately.  

 

They are the same. 

[All Flash 49]

+1  for True Shift holders.

Coming from LS2's.

[Sniper9 530]

14 hours ago, All Flash said:

+1  for True Shift holders.

Coming from LS2's.

And ls2s were one of my all time favorites!

[Beflar 53]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:44 AM, krisdrum said:

I am assuming the hole patterns between Shift and Shift Max holders are the same, but can someone confirm?  Considering making the switch as I've noticed my Shift holder and steel have been squeaking/popping when walking lately.  

I have just purchased the svh that came with the shift max and it has that squeaking/popping sound when walking.  Should I be worried?  Anyone else get this.

Just got them today.

[Sniper9 530]

4 hours ago, Beflar said:

I have just purchased the svh that came with the shift max and it has that squeaking/popping sound when walking.  Should I be worried?  Anyone else get this.

Just got them today.

This happened to mine. It's just the rubber seals inside the holders blade channel rubbing against the steel. It will go away at some point after some skating or what I did was just put a bit of Vaseline on the top sides of the steel where it goes in the channel and it'll stop the squeaking. It's nothing bad and won't affect performance just annoying sounding. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Sniper9

[Beflar 53]

1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

This happened to mine. It's just the rubber seals inside the holders blade channel rubbing against the steel. It will go away at some point after some skating or what I did was just put a bit of Vaseline on the top sides of the steel where it goes in the channel and it'll stop the squeaking. It's nothing bad and won't affect performance just annoying sounding. 

Skates fit great. 

Very hard to put on but, once on they are gold.

[VegasHockey 1280]

10 hours ago, Beflar said:

Skates fit great. 

Very hard to put on but, once on they are gold.

Give it some time. You will learn the TRUE "twist and turn" movement. lol

 

[Beflar 53]

10 hours ago, VegasHockey said:

Give it some time. You will learn the TRUE "twist and turn" movement. lol

 

LOL totally.  I think I'm getting it. 

First time putting it on you start to panic.  It is a feel thing.  Like one of those puzzles, but pain is your guide.  If it hurts a lot try something else.  It should only hurt a little.  Basicly try and protect the top of your foot from getting brused by spreading out the contact to less painful spots of your foot.  Then when it is moving forward you just grin and keep it moving..

Waxed laces are probably a bad idea for these skates.  Honestly they are not needed and it makes putting on and off way easier.

Skates seem to have cured my lacebite...  I'm really glad I got them.  The side of the boot looks funny because it is way wider than my other skates.  The way it makes contact with the whole foot.  It feels like the boot is always 1mm away from your foot put never touching the foot.  Never touching but always touching.  A TRUE extension of your foot..(see what I did there?):)

Edited May 21, 2023 by Beflar

[VegasHockey 1280]

15 hours ago, Beflar said:

LOL totally.  I think I'm getting it. 

First time putting it on you start to panic.  It is a feel thing.  Like one of those puzzles, but pain is your guide.  If it hurts a lot try something else.  It should only hurt a little.  Basicly try and protect the top of your foot from getting brused by spreading out the contact to less painful spots of your foot.  Then when it is moving forward you just grin and keep it moving..

Waxed laces are probably a bad idea for these skates.  Honestly they are not needed and it makes putting on and off way easier.

Skates seem to have cured my lacebite...  I'm really glad I got them.  The side of the boot looks funny because it is way wider than my other skates.  The way it makes contact with the whole foot.  It feels like the boot is always 1mm away from your foot put never touching the foot.  Never touching but always touching.  A TRUE extension of your foot..(see what I did there?):)

Like I said, in time the TRUE "twist" as I call it becomes standard for players who use the customs. You can also flare the cuff as well, if needed. 

I am not a fan of waxed laces, they tend to lock in too tightly and cause more issues than benefits. 

Glad to hear the lace bite has been resolved; nice play on words there 😛 

 

[start_today 770]

I broke a holder on my TF7s. A few questions for the brain trust: 

a) do the Max holders have the same hole pattern as the shift? 

b) I’ve seen a few places say that the Shift steel can go in Max holders, but not the opposite. Is that correct? I’m hoping to avoid buying new steel. 

c) Are there any other holders that line up with the shift hole pattern without having to drill new ones?