P88 / P40 / P80 curve question

[noupf 42]

44 years old and I've played defense almost my entire life, always been a fan of the P88 Bauer curve ( also been using CCM pro stocks with P40 or P80, which is their version of the P88 ).  From what I know, the P88/P40/P80's are classified as a mid curve with an almost closed or ever so slightly open face.  Using the P88 style curves, from the blue line, on slappers, i can get the puck just about cross bar height or less, as well as just about the right amount of lift on my wrist shots from far out.   I'm finding myself playing forward more now and its difficult to really get some lift on my wrist shot in close    What would be the next step up in terms of similar curve that has a SLIGHTLY MORE open face than what i am using now?

 

Thanks !

 

 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

It might be a big jump, but probably the P28 or P29.  With that said, you can tweak your shooting technique with the P88/P40/P80 to hit top shelf too.  I don't have a problem doing so, but I do have to slightly tweak my shot to get the higher angle.  

Edited March 8, 2022 by shoot_the_goalie

[boo10 323]

This is all just my personal opinion, but I've been messing with a number of curves lately.  I would say your best bet would be a P92 lie 5.  You'll have to go to True to find this in retail.  Next in line would be a P90TM, as I find the lie is closer to a P88 than a P92 lie 6.  Third choice would be a regular P92/P29/W03.  P28 is a lower lie, but it is very open.  If you're switching from a P88 and try P28 you will need to make a significant change to your shooting technique, otherwise you will be putting shots into the rafters.

[nutters 218]

59 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

It might be a big jump, but probably the P28 or P29.  The new P30 (Panarin) looks interesting with the slight toe hook too, but I haven't tried it.  With that said, you can tweak your shooting technique with the P88/P40/P80 to hit top shelf too.  I don't have a problem doing so, but I do have to slightly tweak my shot to get the higher angle.  

I believe the P30 has already left us

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

8 minutes ago, nutters said:

I believe the P30 has already left us

My bad.  For some reason I thought the P30 was re-released, but I was incorrect.  Thanks.

[nutters 218]

8 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

My bad.  For some reason I thought the P30 was re-released, but I was incorrect.  Thanks.

Was replaced by the P90TM. That does have a P28ish toe

[johnyo 5]

1 hour ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

It might be a big jump, but probably the P28 or P29.  With that said, you can tweak your shooting technique with the P88/P40/P80 to hit top shelf too.  I don't have a problem doing so, but I do have to slightly tweak my shot to get the higher angle.  

I can migrate between P88, P92 and P29 with some minor adjustment in technique. I find it easier to elevate the puck with a P92 or P29 but I felt I lost power on my shot up high so I stuck with P88 and worked on my technique. I am in my late 30s.

I loved the way the P28 shot (probably the best I have ever shot with any curve) but kept losing the puck under the heel no matter what I did to make an adjustment. I finally just gave away the P28 to a teammate as my stickhandling suffered terribly. YMMV.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

A P46 in a pro stick may be a transition

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

https://sidelineswap.com/gear/hockey/sticks/4415856-bauer-new-2-pack-vapor-adv-flylite-dress-lh-77-flex-p46-stick-em-grip?referral_code=Zydo441
 

something like this

[puckpilot 312]

If you're used to the p88, the p92 is sort of the next step along the continuum. It'll make it easier to get under the puck and roof it from in close, and the pocket is placed similarly to the p88. I wouldn't recommend the p28. It's a vastly different animal and is way more unforgiving. If you don't execute the right technique for that curve it either launches the puck into the rafters or doesn't leave the ice.

BUT, in my honest opinion, if you like the p88, you probably don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just spend some practise time lifting the puck in close with your current curve. Switching to a different curve, especially if you've used the p88 most of your life, is probably going to require more tweaks and growing pains than simply getting some more practise time in with your current curve. I'd bet you'd be able to make the required tweaks within a hour or two of practise. 

One other thing to consider, which may or may not apply to you. For me, I've always found regardless of curve--and I've used pretty flat curves like the p38 and the toe curves like the p28--the key to accuracy and lift is stick flex . As long as I have right flex for me, I can execute the proper technique, and I don't tend to have issues with placing the puck. If the stick is a little too stiff, it makes it harder to go through the proper motions when I'm rushed, and I'll have issues with accuracy and lifting the puck. Since you've played defense most of your life, you might be used to having a little more time to load up. Playing forward, you don't always have that time and maybe when you're rushed, you're not able to flex the stick quite enough to get the puck to do what you want. Maybe going to a slightly lower flex might help. Just a thought.

Edited March 9, 2022 by puckpilot

[noupf 42]

9 hours ago, puckpilot said:

If you're used to the p88, the p92 is sort of the next step along the continuum. It'll make it easier to get under the puck and roof it from in close, and the pocket is placed similarly to the p88. I wouldn't recommend the p28. It's a vastly different animal and is way more unforgiving. If you don't execute the right technique for that curve it either launches the puck into the rafters or doesn't leave the ice.

BUT, in my honest opinion, if you like the p88, you probably don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just spend some practise time lifting the puck in close with your current curve. Switching to a different curve, especially if you've used the p88 most of your life, is probably going to require more tweaks and growing pains than simply getting some more practise time in with your current curve. I'd bet you'd be able to make the required tweaks within a hour or two of practise. 

One other thing to consider, which may or may not apply to you. For me, I've always found regardless of curve--and I've used pretty flat curves like the p38 and the toe curves like the p28--the key to accuracy and lift is stick flex . As long as I have right flex for me, I can execute the proper technique, and I don't tend to have issues with placing the puck. If the stick is a little too stiff, it makes it harder to go through the proper motions when I'm rushed, and I'll have issues with accuracy and lifting the puck. Since you've played defense most of your life, you might be used to having a little more time to load up. Playing forward, you don't always have that time and maybe when you're rushed, you're not able to flex the stick quite enough to get the puck to do what you want. Maybe going to a slightly lower flex might help. Just a thought.

 

Thanks for all the input everyone.

@puckpilotI think you are onto something.  I don't feel like trying to reinvent the wheel at this point lol.   I'm 6'4 230 lbs and use a 95-100 flex stick depending on brand.  Have been toying with the idea of bumping down to an 85-90 flex to see what it would be like.  As I'm getting older, along with some aches and pains in the shoulders and elbows, i know for a fact that i dont get my shot off quite as quick or as hard anymore.  Maybe going this new route of slightly lower stick flex will help with all of it and I wont have to try as hard.

Edited March 9, 2022 by noupf

[caveman27 208]

On 3/8/2022 at 4:02 PM, noupf said:

44 years old and I've played defense almost my entire life, always been a fan of the P88 Bauer curve ( also been using CCM pro stocks with P40 or P80, which is their version of the P88 ).  From what I know, the P88/P40/P80's are classified as a mid curve with an almost closed or ever so slightly open face.  Using the P88 style curves, from the blue line, on slappers, i can get the puck just about cross bar height or less, as well as just about the right amount of lift on my wrist shots from far out.   I'm finding myself playing forward more now and its difficult to really get some lift on my wrist shot in close    What would be the next step up in terms of similar curve that has a SLIGHTLY MORE open face than what i am using now?

Thanks !

I usually use a P28 and play defense and forward. I had an extra composite shaft at the time and bought a wooden blade that had a heel curve since it was on clearance. Getting loft was easier with the heel curve, at least for me, to the point of going over the cross bar on mid-distance shots or icing the puck because I made a sauce pass to a forward that went 15 feet high. Your experience may vary.

Edited March 9, 2022 by caveman27

[puckpilot 312]

8 hours ago, noupf said:

As I'm getting older, along with some aches and pains in the shoulders and elbows, i know for a fact that i dont get my shot off quite as quick or as hard anymore.  Maybe going this new route of slightly lower stick flex will help with all of it and I wont have to try as hard.

I'm just shy of the big Five-Oh, and as the years go on, I've found that I'll have to go up or down in flex depending on how I feel, but the overall trend is down. 😛 

[A2rhino 62]

I came across this thread as I was wondering what the true differences were between the P80 and the now P88. 

After reading through this thread it has lead me to a couple of questions and conclusions. 

First, Why in todays world are we as consumers limited to only 3.5 curve choices? I say 3.5 because we all know the P90 is a P28/P29 HYBRID.

Second, Why does only one brand offer a Custom curve choice option? 

I know that I'm going to be told that its all about demand. I don't believe that there is a HUGE demand for the P90. Am I wrong?

Just using this as an example. Why not offer at least the P19 That was a cross between the P91 and P92 for the guys that were heel curve fans. 

I guess my rant here is that as I am a HUGE fan of the JETSPEED sticks, however I have been forced to pick a curve and learn how to make it work for me. That is unless I want to go to Geppetto's site and build my own for a fraction of the price. Obviously we know its not the same as an FT5 / 6 Pro but you can still get a great stick with a wide variety of curves and builds to choose from.

I have even reached out to one offering to buy a dozen "top end" stick in a curve THEY DEVELOPED and was told they would not do it. WTF? 

I don't understand why more BIG NAME vendors are not offering this like the one that charges a premium. I believe that people would pay it (I know I would) if I could have the curve of my choice rather than paying top dollar for a choice that is forced on you. 

Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Preferably from guys that grew up with more than 3.5 options. 

 

[BenBreeg 493]

It's not super complicated, it is based on what margins they expect and total profitability from an effort.  I don't think the market for all these curves is as big as you think.

Another thing, if you watch the history of Titan video which is very good, the founder and the designer explained that they made the sticks which then were finally bent into a final curve.  So the same stick blank was able to be used for multiple curves.  With CF, the curve is established in the mold.  A mold is a lot more investment than a fixture to curve an already made stick.

 

[A2rhino 62]

I think its safe to say they are making a killer profit as most of the money goes into marketing more than anything. 

I think they would make even more if they would focus on making products that are as durable as they perform rather than racing to the bottom with who can make the lightest stick that breaks in 5 games or less. 

As for the molds, I'm not saying to develop anything new. I'm simply saying that they have the molds from previous generations and simply offer what they already have molds of. As you said; Its really not that hard. If one vendor can do it, why can't another. With that said, I paid to have a mold made and it was roughly $1200.00. They would make that back in just a few sticks with what they charge for custom sticks today. 

[BenBreeg 493]

I don't know, but I do know that when new sticks come out you always hear people talking about weight as if current sticks weigh 8 lbs...  There are lots of things that go into determining what products you offer, not just if you can.

[puckpilot 312]

My guess is it's about streamlining operations. Back in the day, here's what I remember. If you go to a store's clearance section, you would have the 100+ flex sticks, and you would have the sticks with the least popular curves. And those sticks would stay around forever until the store eventually marked them down enough for the cheapskates to grab them. I remember going into pro hockey life and their clearance section was as big as their new stick section. Now, it's about a dozen or so sticks. Some of which are still holdovers from years back. Heck, there are still Easton sticks on that clearance rack. With three curves, they mitigate situations like that. 

Fewer SKUs means fewer risks.

A hockey player isn't going to stop playing hockey if their favorite curve isn't offered anymore. They simply adapt. A store/company won't be losing that stick sale, so what's the incentive to offer more variety?

Those who are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get the specs they want are IMHO few and far between. For me, there isn't a stick on the market that fits my ideal of "perfect specs" for me. If a company offered my idea of "perfect specs" as a custom, I'd be interested. BUT I'd only be interested if the price was right. I'm not selling my left nut to get a luxury item that, at best, is only going to improve my performance along the margins.

Edited August 17, 2023 by puckpilot

[start_today 770]

 “You can have any color model T you want as long as it’s black.” It’s cheaper and easier to make and stock 3 curves than it is 10. Better for the companies producing them, better for the stores selling them. 

As much as I love to armchair CEO these companies, they are the ones making millions of dollars marketing a fantasy to players. I love to think “they’d make more money if they just ______, but kinda hard to argue with the financial results they produce.

Absolutely nothing Bauer, CCM, Warrior, True, Sherwood do has anything to do with producing better equipment or player experience or hockey as a culture. They are just businesses selling widgets and we are widget consumers. The computer that manages the hedge fund that owns Bauer does not care if a small percentage of players would like a heal curve option, or if families are getting priced out of playing.  

My tinfoil hat is 10g lighter than last years model, plus, it has these cool holes that increase pop and improve air flow. It is not available in a pm9. 

[A2rhino 62]

19 hours ago, puckpilot said:

My guess is it's about streamlining operations. Back in the day, here's what I remember. If you go to a store's clearance section, you would have the 100+ flex sticks, and you would have the sticks with the least popular curves. And those sticks would stay around forever until the store eventually marked them down enough for the cheapskates to grab them. I remember going into pro hockey life and their clearance section was as big as their new stick section. Now, it's about a dozen or so sticks. Some of which are still holdovers from years back. Heck, there are still Easton sticks on that clearance rack. With three curves, they mitigate situations like that. 

Fewer SKUs means fewer risks.

A hockey player isn't going to stop playing hockey if their favorite curve isn't offered anymore. They simply adapt. A store/company won't be losing that stick sale, so what's the incentive to offer more variety?

Those who are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get the specs they want are IMHO few and far between. For me, there isn't a stick on the market that fits my ideal of "perfect specs" for me. If a company offered my idea of "perfect specs" as a custom, I'd be interested. BUT I'd only be interested if the price was right. I'm not selling my left nut to get a luxury item that, at best, is only going to improve my performance along the margins.

I would suggest that if you are TRULY interested in that to look into www.Prostockhockeysticks.com . Geppetto offers most everything and anything you could ask for at an extremely fair price and high quality products. He is who made my mold and my sticks for me. 

I get your point and that is why I say to at least provide a custom offering like the one vendor does. That way stores aren't at a high risk of inventory and neither is the vendor if you are going to have to wait a few weeks for what you want. Hell, they could even require a minimum number of sticks so they know that the guys like us are serious about what we are wanting.

To be fair I would love to hear from someone at Warrior as to why the stopped the custom offerings just so I can make sense of it all. 

I really do appreciate the feedback from you guys because I believe this is how we help move the needle and why I have always loved this forum.  

 

 

[puckpilot 312]

12 hours ago, A2rhino said:

I would suggest that if you are TRULY interested in that to look into www.Prostockhockeysticks.com . Geppetto offers most everything and anything you could ask for at an extremely fair price and high quality products. He is who made my mold and my sticks for me. 

I've checked them out in the past, and they still don't have what I want, a 40-45 flex stick with intermediate blade shaft dimensions. And for 189 US or 145 US, which is 256 Can or 196 Can, I might as well buy a top end retail stick. I can get a brand new 50 flex Hyperlite 2 with intermediate shaft and blade dimensions for 269 Can, or last generations Hyperlite for 195 Can. I'm not spending top dollar for what isn't a top dollar stick.

[BenBreeg 493]

You don't have to work at a hockey company to understand it.  I have worked in new product development my whole life.  If I, as a product manager, proposed doing custom sticks (other than the mix and match like Bauer has), but couldn't show how that would improve our bottom line, why do you think the company would agree?

[A2rhino 62]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:13 AM, BenBreeg said:

You don't have to work at a hockey company to understand it.  I have worked in new product development my whole life.  If I, as a product manager, proposed doing custom sticks (other than the mix and match like Bauer has), but couldn't show how that would improve our bottom line, why do you think the company would agree?

You raise a VERY VALID point. I guess my question now is; why does Bauer offer this if they are not benefiting from it in some way? 

[BenBreeg 493]

5 minutes ago, A2rhino said:

You raise a VERY VALID point. I guess my question now is; why does Bauer offer this if they are not benefiting from it in some way? 

They built a business case that convinced them it makes sense.  Business cases are based on assumptions and data, different conclusions based on margin requirements and motivations are possible for different companies looking at the same idea.  For instance, the concept of a loss leader is a product or offering that loses money but that they think could lead to sales of other profitable items.  There are lots of reasons a company might make a decision one way or another.