In Between Senior and Intermediate Sticks

[AnimalFear 18]

As a smaller guy (5'7", 145 lbs) I find myself in the unfortunate situation of being stuck between senior and intermediate sticks when trying to find my ideal flex profile. Recently I've tried a 65-flex intermediate stick that is my ideal length (57") without the need to cut the stick, but I find it too whippy/noodly for anything other than snap/wrist shots. I also have a 75-flex senior stick that I like for most things, but since I had to cut it down 3 inches, it's more like an 85 flex and isn't ideal for snap/wrist shots. I purchased a 68-flex senior stick the other day, but the markings down the back indicate that if I cut it down to my preferred length, it will add 12 to the flex, so it would be more like an 80 flex. I think a true 70-75 flex stick would be perfect for me, but I feel like there is a black hole in terms of the flex offerings for someone my size. I have to choose between an intermediate stick that is too whippy or a senior stick that is too stiff once you account for cutting the stick length. 

Has anybody else dealt with this issue and found a solution? I noticed that True offers some 65-flex senior sticks, so that might be my best bet to get to my ideal range, but I'm not a huge fan of their stick offerings honestly.

[Xero117 7]

I remember bauer and warrior made 70-75 flex intermediates but it's been awhile since I last saw them in stores. Another option might be to go prostock https://www.prostockhockey.com/player-sticks/?&search_query=player-sticks&filter=Flex_fq:[70 TO 79]&rows=20&start=0, there's Gaudreau 70 flex at 57" if you're a lefty.

[AnimalFear 18]

I’m a righty, unfortunately. 

[stick9 890]

@AnimalFear CCM offers 70 flex senior sticks at retail. We're similar in size and I much prefer the 70 flex senior stick to a 75 or even 67 flex intermediates. 

I'm pretty sure Bauer offers a 70 flex too. But that might only be available through the MyBauer program.

[AnimalFear 18]

19 minutes ago, stick9 said:

@AnimalFear CCM offers 70 flex senior sticks at retail. We're similar in size and I much prefer the 70 flex senior stick to a 75 or even 67 flex intermediates. 

I'm pretty sure Bauer offers a 70 flex too. But that might only be available through the MyBauer program.

But once I cut 3 inches off the senior stick I’ll be looking at an 80-85 flex stick. I recently bought a 68-flex Sherwood Code online and it indicates on the back of the shaft that once I cut off 3 inches I’ll be looking at an 80-flex stick.

Maybe that’s the best I can do. I just feel like there are a lot of people my size so I can’t be the only one who seems to fall into the cracks between senior and intermediate sticks.

[stick9 890]

1 hour ago, AnimalFear said:

But once I cut 3 inches off the senior stick I’ll be looking at an 80-85 flex stick. I recently bought a 68-flex Sherwood Code online and it indicates on the back of the shaft that once I cut off 3 inches I’ll be looking at an 80-flex stick.

Maybe that’s the best I can do. I just feel like there are a lot of people my size so I can’t be the only one who seems to fall into the cracks between senior and intermediate sticks.

You aren't the only one. As I said, you and I are roughly the same size and there are plenty of other members here in the same boat.

Anyway, I wouldn't get too caught up in what a stick might be or a specific number. Focus more on how it feels when you play. It might take a few tries to find the right stick.

[Cavs019 708]

I wouldn’t put too much stock in the number printed on the back of the stick. The kickpoint you’re using will also matter quite a bit. A Bauer/CCM 70 mid kick still feels noodly in my hands cut about 2.5 inches but the low kick feels perfect since the kickpoint is below my bottom hand. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Cavs019

[AnimalFear 18]

32 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

I wouldn’t too much stock in the number printed in the back of the stick. The kickpoint you’re using will also matter quite a bit. A Bauer/CCM 70 mid kick still feels noodly in my hands cut about 2.5 inches but the low kick feels perfect since the kickpoint is below my bottom hand. 

That’s a good point. I’ve been using mostly low-kick sticks so maybe a mid-kick would give me back some of that flexibility that I lose when cutting the stick down. I guess it’s just a matter of trying things out. I just wish sticks weren’t so darn expensive!

[xstartxtodayx 343]

I think you're thinking about the numbers too much lol... as Cavs said, different kickpoints will perform and feel different compared to a stick of the same flex with a different kickpoint, also one brand's 75 might feel different than another's 75.  Trimming a couple inches off won't change the flex drastically (I don't put much faith in those #'s on the back of some shafts), I used to trim almost 4" off my sticks but now I'm down to about 2" off the top, I've never noticed the flex feeling different.

The one thing that has stood out to me regarding flex is how some makes/models feel stiffer than others.  Warrior, for whatever reason always feels a little more flexy than CCM.  I've also used some 70 flex pro stock sticks, I know Warrior makes them and I'm pretty sure I've seen some CCM's as well, just have to start browsing SLS or PSH and see what you can come up with, once you find a player with specs you like then you try your best to find his sticks, sometimes it works out and sometimes you fall in love only to find that guy switched specs along the line or is impossible to find lol.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

All good points, do you prefer the dimensions of the senior or intermediate more? I'd start there

[puckpilot 312]

I'm roughly your size. I'm 5'5 160lbs. I fell in to the rabbit hole many years ago, and after looking around and doing research, I found out the flex rating doesn't change when you cut the stick. What changes is leverage.  Here's a video explaining things by a True Hockey engineer. 

 

Once you realize the flex rating doesn't change when you cut the stick, things became simpler. Once I cut out the noise, it was a lot easier zeroing in on sticks that were right for me. One thing you have to keep in mind is each company's sticks will flex/feel a bit different even if they have the same flex rating. This feel will also change with a change in kick point.  Depending on your shooting style and what you're used to, for some, low kick sticks feel stiffer, to other's they feel whippier. 

[BenBreeg 493]

The flex rating doesn't change, but as the engineer said, the "bend" does.  When people talk about flex, they are really talking about bend.  So yeah, cutting it down doesn't change the flex rating, but it does change how it functions.  Too much semantic debate when we all know what people mean.

[xstartxtodayx 343]

3 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

The flex rating doesn't change, but as the engineer said, the "bend" does.  When people talk about flex, they are really talking about bend.  So yeah, cutting it down doesn't change the flex rating, but it does change how it functions.  Too much semantic debate when we all know what people mean.

yea, but in the grand scheme of things, cutting 3-4" off a stick is not going to make a noticeable different for 99.9999% of users and if they say it does I call BS.  Where you place your bottom hand will also play a part in the bend/flex and during the course of a game you prob won't have that hand in the exact same position for every shot. 

So what I'm saying is the OP (and many of us) are putting way too much thought into the minute difference of a stick's flex after trimming a few inches off the top.  I think the OP just needs to experiment with some different brands and kickpoints to find something that feels good to him, there really is no right/wrong stick for a person, just a matter of preference.

[BenBreeg 493]

9 minutes ago, xstartxtodayx said:

yea, but in the grand scheme of things, cutting 3-4" off a stick is not going to make a noticeable different for 99.9999% of users and if they say it does I call BS.  Where you place your bottom hand will also play a part in the bend/flex and during the course of a game you prob won't have that hand in the exact same position for every shot. 

So what I'm saying is the OP (and many of us) are putting way too much thought into the minute difference of a stick's flex after trimming a few inches off the top.  I think the OP just needs to experiment with some different brands and kickpoints to find something that feels good to him, there really is no right/wrong stick for a person, just a matter of preference.

Yeah, but if not for putting way too much thought into equipment minutiae, this place would be a ghost town! 😄

[218hockey 50]

19 hours ago, puckpilot said:

 

 

Once you realize the flex rating doesn't change when you cut the stick, things became simpler. Once I cut out the noise, it was a lot easier zeroing in on sticks that were right for me.

Huh? I guess you are correct in the walls of the stick don't actually change but if I cut a stick in half I'm not going to be able to bend it.

I would correct you and say the flex doesn't change but the flex rating would. Anyway, you know what I mean.

[218hockey 50]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:33 AM, AnimalFear said:

 I noticed that True offers some 65-flex senior sticks, so that might be my best bet to get to my ideal range, but I'm not a huge fan of their stick offerings honestly.

Warrior makes 65 flex senior sticks as well.

[x-axis 44]

Warrior makes an intermediate 70 flex. Used those for 8+ years till I ended up loving 65 flexes more.

[beedee 227]

2 hours ago, 218hockey said:

Warrior makes 65 flex senior sticks as well.

Yup, I bought one a couple months ago, Covert QR5T with the W02 curve. Cut 5" off of it, so in theory its around the 80'ish flex range. I have been loving it. My other stick I was using before this was an Intermediate CCM JetSpeed FT3 Pro, 65flex, with one inch cut off of it. Wristers and snaps are great with the CCM, but as of late I was struggling with slapshots. After a game or two with the Warrior, I am loving the lower kick point vs the "hybrid" of the CCM. My shots are consistent with the Warrior, wrists, snaps and slaps.

[puckpilot 312]

4 hours ago, 218hockey said:

Huh? I guess you are correct in the walls of the stick don't actually change but if I cut a stick in half I'm not going to be able to bend it.

I would correct you and say the flex doesn't change but the flex rating would. Anyway, you know what I mean.

Flex rating is a property of the material the stick is made from. It's like looking at the load bearing weight of something made of bamboo or iron. Making smaller pieces of those things doesn't change that property. So doing mental gymnastics trying to do calculations about what a sticks flex rating will be after you take a couple of inches off is not a good way to think about things. It can lead to confusion.

For example, if you take two Bauer Vapor sticks both 85 flex, but one comes stock at 60". and the other comes stock at 63". If you think of flex as changing, then if you take 3 inches off the second stick, depending on what rate of change you're using, it should be somewhere around 100 flex. So how is it the first stick is still an 85 flex but the second stick is now 100 flex? In reality, they're both the exact same, an 85 flex stick that's 60" tall.

When one thinks of flex as immutable, things become simpler. We all generally have a preferred stick height, so we can think of that as immutable, to. So now when we look for the right stick flex for us, we simply look at what our current flex is, and choose higher or lower as desired instead of doing unnecessary calculations. But if we do want to change the length of our stick, it's simply a change in the amount of leverage we have. 

 

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, puckpilot said:

Flex rating is a property of the material the stick is made from. It's like looking at the load bearing weight of something made of bamboo or iron. Making smaller pieces of those things doesn't change that property. So doing mental gymnastics trying to do calculations about what a sticks flex rating will be after you take a couple of inches off is not a good way to think about things. It can lead to confusion.

For example, if you take two Bauer Vapor sticks both 85 flex, but one comes stock at 60". and the other comes stock at 63". If you think of flex as changing, then if you take 3 inches off the second stick, depending on what rate of change you're using, it should be somewhere around 100 flex. So how is it the first stick is still an 85 flex but the second stick is now 100 flex? In reality, they're both the exact same, an 85 flex stick that's 60" tall.

When one thinks of flex as immutable, things become simpler. We all generally have a preferred stick height, so we can think of that as immutable, to. So now when we look for the right stick flex for us, we simply look at what our current flex is, and choose higher or lower as desired instead of doing unnecessary calculations. But if we do want to change the length of our stick, it's simply a change in the amount of leverage we have. 

 

 

Well said. 

[BenBreeg 493]

10 hours ago, puckpilot said:

Flex rating is a property of the material the stick is made from. It's like looking at the load bearing weight of something made of bamboo or iron. Making smaller pieces of those things doesn't change that property. So doing mental gymnastics trying to do calculations about what a sticks flex rating will be after you take a couple of inches off is not a good way to think about things. It can lead to confusion.

For example, if you take two Bauer Vapor sticks both 85 flex, but one comes stock at 60". and the other comes stock at 63". If you think of flex as changing, then if you take 3 inches off the second stick, depending on what rate of change you're using, it should be somewhere around 100 flex. So how is it the first stick is still an 85 flex but the second stick is now 100 flex? In reality, they're both the exact same, an 85 flex stick that's 60" tall.

When one thinks of flex as immutable, things become simpler. We all generally have a preferred stick height, so we can think of that as immutable, to. So now when we look for the right stick flex for us, we simply look at what our current flex is, and choose higher or lower as desired instead of doing unnecessary calculations. But if we do want to change the length of our stick, it's simply a change in the amount of leverage we have. 

 

 

My only confusion is how people get so confused over this, it's about as simple as it gets.

[218hockey 50]

20 hours ago, puckpilot said:

Flex rating is a property of the material the stick is made from. It's like looking at the load bearing weight of something made of bamboo or iron. Making smaller pieces of those things doesn't change that property. So doing mental gymnastics trying to do calculations about what a sticks flex rating will be after you take a couple of inches off is not a good way to think about things. It can lead to confusion.

For example, if you take two Bauer Vapor sticks both 85 flex, but one comes stock at 60". and the other comes stock at 63". If you think of flex as changing, then if you take 3 inches off the second stick, depending on what rate of change you're using, it should be somewhere around 100 flex. So how is it the first stick is still an 85 flex but the second stick is now 100 flex? In reality, they're both the exact same, an 85 flex stick that's 60" tall.

When one thinks of flex as immutable, things become simpler. We all generally have a preferred stick height, so we can think of that as immutable, to. So now when we look for the right stick flex for us, we simply look at what our current flex is, and choose higher or lower as desired instead of doing unnecessary calculations. But if we do want to change the length of our stick, it's simply a change in the amount of leverage we have. 

 

 

That's pretty basic stuff, I hope you're not wasting all those paragraphs trying to explain to me. I totally agree. It can be said in a sentence as it is above.

[jazzykat 0]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:15 PM, stick9 said:

@AnimalFear CCM offers 70 flex senior sticks at retail. We're similar in size and I much prefer the 70 flex senior stick to a 75 or even 67 flex intermediates. 

I'm pretty sure Bauer offers a 70 flex too. But that might only be available through the MyBauer program.

bought a 70 flex Sync senior dimension from retail here in Europe. I also have an uncut 57" 75 flex Supreme 1s(I know it probably doesn't help you) in intermediate dimension. Look around and you should find something good enough.

 

On 2/16/2023 at 11:07 PM, Buzz_LightBeer said:

All good points, do you prefer the dimensions of the senior or intermediate more? I'd start there

This guy wins the prize. If you can't hold the stick correctly in your hands you are in for a world of frustration (no puns intended).

[start_today 770]

On 2/18/2023 at 9:02 AM, BenBreeg said:

My only confusion is how people get so confused over this, it's about as simple as it gets.

Well, the issue is we’ve used the word “flex” to mean a specific thing in hockey sticks for a very, very, very long time. Prior to that True video, when hockey players talked about stick flex, the meant how a stick bends in relation to the pressure and power put on it. 

Now, True is changing that meaning. If I take an 85 flex stick and cut 5” off, it takes more work for me to bend it. And that bending used to be called flex. I know that. You know that. That video is asking us to ignore decades of a word usage and pretend we never meant it that way. 

So, True is changing what the word “flex” means here, so they can do an end run and pretend the flex doesn’t change. But everyone on this forum knows damn well if you cut the stick down it takes more _______ to bend it. Put whatever word you want in that blank. It used to be flex. 
 

So, maybe the “flex” doesn’t change when you cut it, but ______ certainly changes.

We are doing a disservice to anyone trying to discuss how hockey sticks work by playing semantic word games and pretending an 85 flex stick stock 60” and an 85 flex stick stock 60” cut to 52” still _____ the same. 

[start_today 770]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:28 PM, puckpilot said:

.

For example, if you take two Bauer Vapor sticks both 85 flex, but one comes stock at 60". and the other comes stock at 63". If you think of flex as changing, then if you take 3 inches off the second stick, depending on what rate of change you're using, it should be somewhere around 100 flex. So how is it the first stick is still an 85 flex but the second stick is now 100 flex? In reality, they're both the exact same, an 85 flex stick that's 60" tall.

Doesn’t the stick that started at 63” now take more work to deflect to the same degree as the one that started off at 60”?