Custom skate lace bite. Superfeet the fix?

[60PlusWinger 82]

I'll keep this short. I have custom supremes. I'm getting lace bit even though I've had them for months now and am skating more than ever even though I didn't get it while they were new ish. My last pair gave me no lace bit issues but this pair is. I tweaked the sizing a bit this time. I have stock Bauer insoles. Here's what I'm thinking

-they broke in enough that now my foot is deeper into the boot than new so now my ankle is banging against the laces?

Maybe superfeet yellows will raise my heel and reposition my foot so I'm no longer getting that resistance? I'm assuming I'm getting it because my foot is moving in the boot

I'm not changing my tongue, I have the best lace bite tongue there is, bunga pads to me seem like a temp fix, I'm hoping superfeet will do the trick.

Thoughts?

[mc88 160]

Have you done the pencil test?

If, whilst in bare feet, you put your heel on the floor and raise the front of your foot off the floor, you will be able to see the main tendon in the front of your ankle. Pressure anywhere on that tendon can lead to lace bite so generally anywhere from the 1st eyelet down to the 5th or 6th eyelet is the area of concern. However it is generally the 2nd / 3rd / 4th eyelets where the majority of lace bite occurs. It is not common to get lace bite across the flat of the foot because the pressure points in this area are different.

Most skates that fail the pencil test out of the box will initially not hurt and let you skate fine. It's 2, 3, 4 months or longer down the track when the tongue starts to break down and that cumulative pressure on your tendons begins to show through. And some people will not be bothered by it, I've seen feet that should never be in the boot they are but the players happily skate in them 2 or 3 times a week. Other players just have to look at a shallow boot and their feet start to ache.
For the long term health of your feet and trouble free skating, I'd rather be in a boot that fits than one that doesn't.

Run a pencil down the eyelets like so:

This would be a pass (the pen has very little room between the top of the eyelets to the foot--the foot grazes the pencil):

This would be a fail (notice how the foot sticks out past the 2nd to 7th eyelets):

On the flip side, the boot can be too deep and cause lace bite (too much space between the top of the eyelets and the foot-- I believe the general rule of thumb is: If you can get a finger inbetween the foot and pencil without touching, it's probably too deep):

You can read more about the pencil test here.

If you're getting ankle discomfort (too much space, where the ankle moves around), then you can try Stable 26 socks.

If you're getting pressure points, have the area punched out (with the exception of the toe cap, all current skates can be strectched/punched out in all areas of the boot).

From my experience, the insole only helps alleviate pressure points on the bottom of the foot (arch support or foot width coverage). HOWEVER, it can cause lace bite, if it's too thick and raises the foot too high!

[Davetronz 109]

From experience, Superfeet will raise your foot and make the lace bite problem worse.

[Vet88 673]

I think this is the main point - "I've had them for months now and am skating more than ever".

Cumulative pressure on the tendon is starting to raise it's ugly head. Like the previous posters, it would be very unlikely that superfeet will fix the problem. If you fail the pencil test then you are always going to battle lace bite regardless of how good your tongue is. Flex 55 or Forsberg pads are the only long term fixes that I recommend if you want to stay in the boot with no other changes.There are other options but some players wont use them and others are more short term than a long term solution.

[60PlusWinger 82]

One thing that might be something to consider is that my tongue is a supreme felt but it's shortened in length and width. They are 1/2 inch shorter and 1/2 wide from the factory. I pass the pencil test just fine and for example, if I skate once in the week for that game I'm fine, if I stay for the second game that's when it starts. Here are pictures

The pencil rolls to the bottom without even touching the ankle. The right ankle is swollen at the tendon, I don't get it nearly as bad in the left. The reason I'm thinking superfeet may work is that there's too much space in the boot even if it's movement forward to back. It's high ankle where I'm getting bit. You can see the swelling in the pic

[MyBoxersSayJoe 132]

Great advice on the pencil test.

Also, every few years I'll lace my skates too tight or do something funky and get lace bite. With this most recent bout I switched from waxed laces to regular laces and bought a bunga pad. No more discomfort and completely went away in 2-3 weeks while still skating regularly.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I'm in unwaxed laces but not bunga. One thing with the howies unwaxed I'm using they might need to be swapped out they are all twisted up and I'm too lazy to straighten them

[flip12 699]

I'll second Vet88 and say a Forsberg pad would help with the problem. It leaves a channel for the tendons to flex and contancts the ankle on either side of the channel instead. I had severe lace-bite that seemed to be a similar case in the place it was occurring and in a skate where I wasn't failing the pencil test either way. With the pad in I could skate pain free, even while the spot was still irritated in general. Eventually the irritation and inflammation went away.

I don't understand why all tongues aren't built with the tendon flex in mind. The lace bite protectors don't seem to work long term if the tongue makes continuous contact with the front of the ankle.

[60PlusWinger 82]

What's the difference between forsberg pad and bunga? Forsberg is put into the tongue? Bunga is worn over the sock?

What do you guys think of my thought that the tongue being short in width being an issue? I ordered them that way. Maybe it causes them to sit too close?

[ChrisMolnar 14]

I actually had the same thing happen to me recently. After skating 4+ times per week all spring and summer, about 2 or 3 weeks ago I tightened my skates too much at the top 2 eyelets and now I can't get the swelling to go away. I'm using the CCM lace bite pads right now. They do a decent job but are no solution. Feels like the only thing that will actually fix the problem is time off but that's unavoidable at this point.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I crank on my top too eyelets. They get lose in a game and I re tie probably 2-3 times a game

[flip12 699]

What's the difference between forsberg pad and bunga? Forsberg is put into the tongue? Bunga is worn over the sock?

What do you guys think of my thought that the tongue being short in width being an issue? I ordered them that way. Maybe it causes them to sit too close?

I haven't seen a Bunga pad in person so I can't comment on differences. Forsberg pad acts like a buttress, to take the contact pressure between the tongue and the ankle away from the tendons. There's a void above the tendon channel and the pads contact strips on either side of it. I don't know if Bungas are like that or if they're a thick cushion across the whole face of the ankle. The Forsberg pad I made I stuffed in my sock. I picture it being integrated into the tongue though, to make it one less thing that can be lost or that has to be remembered.

[Zorlac 22]

Those knots on your feet are EXACTLY what I experienced in my APXs. I stopped lacing the top eyelet, and the pain stopped. It did, however, take MONTHS for those bulges to go away. I believe skating 4 or 5 games a week started the whole thing.

I now lace my MX3s all the way up, but I do it loosely...VERY loosely. Paranoid of that bulge pain...

[chippa13 1844]

You could be fighting too stiff a skate and that is putting cumulative pressure on your foot. That could be why it is ok for one game but going more than that causes the lace bite feeling.

[strosedefence34 175]

Try switching the laces out and I would also try lacing outward in so instead of going through the eyelit bring it over the eyelit and in if that makes sense. It will spread the pressure out a little better.

[Chadd 916]

I crank on my top too eyelets. They get lose in a game and I re tie probably 2-3 times a game

That's one source of the problem, along with the tongue and boot stiffness. Try lacing at least the top few eyelets from the outside to the inside. It should spread the contact point out a lot more. Along with some of the padding suggested it should be enough to allow you to keep using the same setup that you use now.

[shoot_the_goalie 277]

Judging from your comments and your pictures, it almost seems as if your boot has broken down with use and the tongue felt has maybe "packed out". You almost look like you have a touch too much volume in your ankle area, which probably wasn't a problem when your skates were new. What leads me to believe this is 1) you said this wasn't a problem when you first got the skates, 2) you've been cranking down on your laces at the top eyelets, and 3) it starts to happen only after a length of time skating. What kind of sock thickness do you use and how's the fit overall on the rest of the skate? If the skate currently gives you great heel lock and is the correct length, you could try:

short term:

-Bunga pads. I use them only to break in new skates when dealing with hot spots. Get the ones that are ankle sleeves, as they stay in place much better than the actual pads. If you're not familiar with them, they are surgical grade gel pads (about 1/8" thick) affixed to a fabric sleeve that you hand wash. Make sure to get the sleeve w/ the pad as Bunga makes them without pads as well.

-thicker sock or wrap with athletic/flexible tape to increase volume in that area. Be wary of restricting flexion though with this. Also, I personally do not like thick socks as they have drawbacks.

long term:

-replace the tongue with a thicker felt tongue.

it's also very possible that with the passage of time, not only your tongue has broken down, but also that the heel area has also broken down and your foot is now settled back more into the boot as when you first wore them. IMHO, the problem is not being caused by something pressing on that spot, but rather loose movement in that spot. Cranking the laces in order to compensate for that looseness only exacerbates the problem. Re-check the fit of your overall boot...I had this same problem on an old pair of boots, and it turned out that the boots were just a touch too big. I solved that issue with Bunga pads until I finally got a new pair of correctly fitting skates.

EDIT: Also, is this happening on both ankles or just one? If both, it's a boot fit problem. If just one, it might just be an issue with a component of that particular boot. And concerning your original query, I don't think changing to Superfeet will do much.

Hope this helps.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I'm hoping to find a long term solution for this so here are some fun facts...

-During the game my knot will slide to one side or the other and I'll lose almost all stiffness in the top and have to untie the knot and tighten/re tie.

-boot stiffness is stock stiffness

-stock Bauer insoles with the little flange things cut off (maybe my foot moves more without them?)

-Both sides give me discomfort but it's the right side that's a deal breaker. The left is bearable.

-New skates are not an option. These are 4 months old and custom so I don't know how much better of a fit I can get. Something is missing that's causing this and I hope it's something dumb that will permanently fix it

-I've never skated with the top eyelet un laced

[Larry54 243]

Were the skates baked yet?

[60PlusWinger 82]

I skate 3 times a week and have had them 4 months at but yes they were baked. Skate baking doesn't have anything to do with it, that is just something that helps the break in period

[60PlusWinger 82]

POSSIBLE BREAKTHROUGH!

Ok so I decided to try a couple lacing techniques with my ankle still hurting, I figured it's expose progress or issue with it still hurting.

1. Skip the 2nd from the top but tie all the way. Yup, felt better.

2. Skip the top eyelet all together, never skated like this and it felt weird, hurt more actually

3. BOOM! Skip 2nd eyelet and go outside in for the top eyelet. Not only did it feel better but the tie was more secure. Mind you I was only walking and simulating step offs but crap it felt more good and actually like something I'd go for if pain wasn't an issue. Maybe this will work. Here are some laced up pics:

[Vet88 673]

What's the difference between forsberg pad and bunga? Forsberg is put into the tongue? Bunga is worn over the sock?

Bunga pads are a sock like product that have medical grade silicon fixed to the inside of the sock. You can get a variety of them for different purposes - heel, ankle, lace bite etc.

A Forsberg pad is something you make yourself (at least I have never seen one for sale at a LHS or online store) and is simple to do. The pad is named after the player who used to use them. Go to your local hardware shop and buy 1" thick pipe insulation. Cut off a 4" piece then cut down the length of it. Then cut a 1/4" channel in the middle of the pad, the channel should run almost top to bottom of the pad. I chamfer the bottom ends of the pad and the channel for a more comfortable fit. With the tendon sitting in the channel, tape the pad to your leg. In a post about 3 months ago I posted some pictures of this, I'll try and hunt the topic up. I also wear 2mm ezyfit booties over the top to help hold everything in place and fill some negative space I have in the ankle area.

Why is a forsberg pad better than a bunga pad? With a bunga pad, it provides more protection over the top of the tendon than a tongue does but once you have lace bite it does nothing to reduce the pressure that is on the tendon. You need to remove that pressure and with a Forsberg pad the pressure from the boot and tongue sits on the pad whilst the tendon sits in the channel with very little pressure on it.

Trust me on this, I have tried everything else except 55 Flex (which I have coming soon). I have odd shaped feet and am in ice / inline skates often up to 4 hours a day / 7 days a week with coaching / training / playing. I wear Forsberg pads all the time, I just accept it as part of what I have to do to continue to play the game and if it wasn't for them I would not be in skates.

[flip12 699]

The one I made was much thinner (I just cut up the heel of a Nike skate insole that I wasn't using) and it still did the trick. Just as Vet88 says, the key for me was relieving pressure on the tendon channel completely. I think I posted pictures in the same thread as Vet88.

60PlusWinger, if your new alternate lacing doesn't translate well to the ice, you could try making yourself a Forsberg pad. It's really easy.

[60PlusWinger 82]

Fingers crossed. Thanks for the help guys I'll keep you posted. As of right now I'm off the ice until Wednesday. Hopefully the ankle calms down so that when I skate again I can test this out.

[60PlusWinger 82]

Did the skip 2nd eyelet thing and it felt better but surely enough by the end the pain in my ankle exceeded by stamina. The tounge isn't broken down, the boot is fine too. At this point I have a local shop saying they can mess with my tongue and make it go away which I'm not buying into and then superfeet