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Graf went out of business because the new CEO spent way to much on trying to "redesign" the whole thing instead of continuing with the skates that got them there and working on new liners and outers nothing more nothing less. I am baffled on how you think everyone here knows nothing about hockey and skates and boot and pitch and biomechanics??? YOU HAVE 8 FING POSTS!!!!

Ice skates from swiss production Graf & Co. was established in Kreuzlingen in 1921 by Karl Graf’s grandfather. Graf then produced a wide range of all kinds of sport shoes: from soccer, -bike, -hiking, up to tennis boots, etc. From 1937 the first ice skates were introduced into the range of products and from 1974 became specialists in ice hockey and figure skating boots. Since 1997 GRAF CANADA LTD. has produced high -quality hockey- and figure skating boots for the Canadian and North American market. GRAF SKATES AG, Kreuzlingen exports approximately 85% of its production world wide except to USA and Canada. Main markets amongst others are Russia, Scandinavia and Germany. For the Japanese market ice skates are produced on particular lasts (shape of foots). Huummm nothing about speed skates here??

Well I got a phone call today from one of those so called guys "Trying them out." Gemel Smith from the Dallas Stars. His comment was "man these skates changed my game. Im the only 2 way guy left up. And I have been told Im staying as of right now." No he is not a big league guy but for a guy thats a fringe player to say they dramatically improved my movement on the ice? I could actually go on and on with many of the guys I have worked with. As for them with Flare blades if Flare made the adjustments I would want to see as a sharpener I would give them a serious try. You always have to give things like this a try and now that I am closing in on 500 pairs of VH skates sold I would say my success rate is pretty darn good. Even more so that most of my clients 85 % are 10 to 18! And most of those are some of the top players on their teams. And only 9 Hall of Famers but Im working on that. Also pretty sure Mitch Marner and Tyler Bozack are pretty decent players and they seem to like them! I will leave the Goalies don't skate comment to the goalies to respond to! LOL

My expertise has zero to do with post count. It has to do with an eye for seeing people having an issue and being able to adjust that skate to accommodate them on the ice. If you look way back on one of the first posts I saw an issue with the original 190 supreme and the negative pitch. I did some modifications and the proof was in the video of the player skating in them. Since that time I have worked with hundreds of players and have been hired by many to asses the skates they are wearing and make the adjustments. Listen I am not hear to make it a personal thing and I could really care less if you think I suck at skating. But seeing as I have not skated since 2004 as a player then hey glad you remember all the way back then when I skated. Anything since then is a pretty poor attempt at it. I pretty much suck on the ice now. Well except coaching in my VH skates I actually look like I can skate now! I was looking for your degree's or anything on your website but I do not see anything personal on there. All the people I have worked with and so on are clearly marked on mine. If your going to hide in the shadows all the power to ya. Have a great day!

Vet88, it all goes back to my original statement R&D they are pushing it because at a high level skates break down much faster then at a consumer level, so they over engineer on purpose to test how much adaption is there from pro players, if they go too far they dial it down in the next model. Without proper and intelligent R&D process you wont find that fine line where to push it. At this point comparing True's R&D to Bauer is comparing a 12 year old boxing against an adult heavy weight. Technology is never built for a superior athlete go back to manual transmission vs automatic, it's built to take an average athlete and move him or her to a much higher level. This is where smart R&D is critical.

I apologize I did not realize that post count is the main deciding factor on level of expertise. And Yes I stand behind my statement 100% not only Scott, so is anyone one else from the speed skating industry has no clue about what works in hockey and what doesn’t. Because the speed skating industry is build on Hobby approach, Olympic athletes use guys that build skates in their small shops with almost zero R&D. There is no money in speed skating industry at a high level and there is no low level, so no one will invest millions of dollars in R&D without any returns, for this reason it’s a hobby approach with exception of Bont that started in the 70’s. Everybody else copied Bont and their ideas including Scott, so I repeat he has zero knowledge on skate engineering, skate development or R&D when it comes to hockey. Jeff if you want to get personal, you don’t know me, but I know you, you have zero credibility in my book because I saw you skate once and this told me everything I need to know about your level of expertise. To give proper advice you must be able to relate to the person you are giving advise too because hockey is as much about feel as science, so if you call yourself an expert with high post count, you must be at least at a decent skating level to test any technology that comes your way and formulate an intelligent opinion. If you sit in your office and formulate opinions based on this guy came in liked it and this guy came in didn’t like it, you are not an expert you are a “Poll Conductor”. For some reason you are still unable to put forward an engineering argument for True skate and why it is better. At the risk of very cheesy self promotion click on my profile then click on my webpage and read in the section of “ Skate Fit vs. Skate Function”. You will understand why things the way they are.

Thanks. I probably should have done this before ordering the new tongues.

True is engineered by a speed skater (Scott), so with your Graf comments in mind do you expect True to go the same way because they don't know what "works in hockey"??? There is a countering and growing argument to the high cut, ultra stiff, limited forward flexion, rigid ankle lock design that some of todays manufacturers are pushing in the desperate search for more speed and this is what some suspect is leading to more injuries. Lets take a common training technique in Europe and that a lot of professional players still use today, skate and train with no laces. Regardless of what skate you are in, now everything you said about graf (and I won't dive into the murky world of corporate and player sponsorship here as a reason for them going out of business) comes into play (low cut, soft boot, balanced forward on the balls of your feet) yet players are not getting injured from this? ParkseY - your boot was built to your foot shape (if you used the 3D scan) so adding superfeet is going to change that. Zac covers this in earlier posts. I don't know if this will work for you but you may want to try a reprofile on your blade with a +2 pitch (get the center moved forward). This will put you more onto your heel. Changing boots is activating different muscles in your skating technique, if you want to simulate a True fit in your Bauer skates then try dropping an eyelet or 2 and skate this way in your Bauer skates for a couple of months. The increased forward flexion and ankle roll you will get will help activate those muscles you are struggling with when you skate in True skates. Then try your True skates again.

I've just seen pictures, I think the grand opening was last week, but apparently that's where all the skates are going to be made. I just wish I knew someone that worked there and could get me a discount lol. Van Horne was in the old office I worked at talking about marketing a few years ago, really nice guy, amazing how far they have come.

Lets go ahead and tone is down on the personal comments. Everyone here is entitled to providing their viewpoint.

Have you tried the flare blade? Or mako and vh? If you don’t like these products and see them as a gimmick then don’t buy them. If other people like them, who cares.

Parksey, 1S is the most upright boot on the market, but the heel to toe offset is the same on all Bauer skates, because they cut all of their boot patterns based on that holder offset. If True cut their pattern based on Tuuk Edge - most likely not anymore and had the same boot height, boot pitch and volume, it would feel the same, if not then it will mess up the angles on the boot pitch, in most cases more aggressive thus you’re on your toes, superfeet adds even more aggressiveness. If you have proper tools, you can cut a hole in the heel of your superfeet so you sit lower on your heel. First skate with a Bauer insole inside the VH and see how it feels. If VH upper is much deeper then 1S which does look deeper then you’re still on your toes because nothing is holding you in upright position, unless that upper eyelets are cut back to the same depth as 1S. Nothing can be done to it, once a pattern is cut you can’t stretch the boot anymore into a different pitch angle, if you add front lifts to be more upright you’ll change your heel to toe offset and it will screw things up even more. Same with the eyelets it would be difficult to shift the volume by ¼” and not rip apart that section. Flip12… you have a lot to learn on skate engineering and bio-mechanics before making ridiculous statements. Graf initially was engineered by a speed skater not a hockey player, with one goal in mind speed. Graf went out of business because of aggressive boot pitch, low cut boot, soft boot and lack of understanding what works in hockey, they dominated because at the time no one knew too much what works in hockey. Players are injured today because they are fixated on speed and nothing else with 13-foot profiles and flat spots; those that skate on smaller radius and no flat spot are less prone to injury.

Are you saying the top edge of the cuff is digging in (the area Bauers have their comfort edge)? If that is the area, just heat it up and bend it out slightly (away from your ankle). If thats not the area, maybe I'm just not understanding, but a picture would probably help a lot. I had the VH metatarsal tongues on my skates originally and didn't like them at all. The had a really thick plastic guard running the whole way down the front tongue, which made them very stiff and restricted forward flexion. They also weren't as comfortable as the straight felt option either.

Don’t use photobucket - it’s garbage. Use imgur.com instead.

Beautiful. Great packaging too. Much better than what my VH came in! Haha

Still pretty early. You'd think the manufacturer would have set a couple of them up to run indefinitely to find the weak points. I remember Honda used to test motorcycle engines by running them at redline for 24 hours at a time.