The Things Customers Do

[Larry54 243]

Also, don't the sticks have a number on the warranty label specific to that individual stick? Couldn't you have just written down that number, and notified Easton of the situation. I would bet that is how Easton would like you to handle those situations.

That would make sense.

BTW, by writing on the broken stick, you're vandalizing what is now their property and technically owe them damages for that. Ironic, isn't it? You owe them a discount on that broken stick!

Edited October 14, 2009 by Larry54

[Drewhunz 3]

We could go on and on, but the situation has been resolved with Easton. BTW- they agreed with me and offered no differing resolutio to what should be done.

[MorePower4me 0]

Crappy situation all around, but I think you were being a little harsh since it was clearly an accident. (Stupid actions no doubt, but he didn't come into the store with the intent to break it.)

Doesn't the business have insurance for exactly this sort of occurrence? (it should...)

Or why not offer to charge only the actual cost of the stick?

It's a pity that it all turned out this way (and that the police needed to be called) but I honestly think you lucked out (a lot!) with the parents. I can assure you that since the police were there anyway, similar vandalization of my property would most definitely have been reported.

It's no different than a car salesman throwing a brick through the windshield of a car he just sold while its still on the lot. It was a spiteful move to make.

The fact that the stick was yours has no bearing on the situation. If you're claiming once it was broken it was his stick/responsibility, then you have to concede that it was his when you defaced it.

Or if nothing else, when you noticed the Centurion I'd think you would have tried to make some accommodations. This guy drops 250K+, every single year, on that card, and you've guaranteed not one more penny of it will be at your store.

I'd have thought that saying "I won't charge you for the broken one, but you have to buy a non-broken one" may go along way towards getting his documented, large amounts of spending back, no?

[Chadd 916]

Crappy situation all around, but I think you were being a little harsh since it was clearly an accident. (Stupid actions no doubt, but he didn't come into the store with the intent to break it.)

Doesn't the business have insurance for exactly this sort of occurrence? (it should...)

Or why not offer to charge only the actual cost of the stick?

It's a pity that it all turned out this way (and that the police needed to be called) but I honestly think you lucked out (a lot!) with the parents. I can assure you that since the police were there anyway, similar vandalization of my property would most definitely have been reported.

It's no different than a car salesman throwing a brick through the windshield of a car he just sold while its still on the lot. It was a spiteful move to make.

The fact that the stick was yours has no bearing on the situation. If you're claiming once it was broken it was his stick/responsibility, then you have to concede that it was his when you defaced it.

Or if nothing else, when you noticed the Centurion I'd think you would have tried to make some accommodations. This guy drops 250K+, every single year, on that card, and you've guaranteed not one more penny of it will be at your store.

I'd have thought that saying "I won't charge you for the broken one, but you have to buy a non-broken one" may go along way towards getting his documented, large amounts of spending back, no?

The deductible for insurance is higher than the cost of a single OPS, that's no help at all. It's also very different from your example of throwing a brick through a windshield. Stick warranties are in place to cover flaws in the manufacturing process, not a guarantee against anything you can throw at the stick during the warranty period. Preventing fraud by the customer by noting the reason for breakage is hardly a crime on Drew's part.

As for the black card; If the guy was dropping coin in the shop on a regular basis, Drew would have known him by name, not as a random customer. Forcing him to buy a new stick is still going to piss him off and you still lose money as the profit from one stick isn't enough to cover the loss of the other. Now you've pissed the guy off and lost money. Oh and there is no documented proof that guy spends "large amounts" on hockey gear.

All in all, it's not an ideal situation for anyone but the only people to blame for it are the kid that broke the stick by flexing the hell out of it and the parents that refused to take responsibility for his actions.

[MorePower4me 0]

You make a very good point, there is no guarantee he throws money around on gear, but someone who drops that much money every year, on a credit card, and one that needs to be paid off every month at that... Makes my retail mind start to drool... (but I'm weird like that).

And as for Easton and the warranty, I'd think they would jump to cover something like this. Granted its been a while since I've played hockey (and admittedly it was primarily with wood sticks or much older composites) but do the OPS sticks often break from a simple flexing in the store?

As a manufacturer, I'd think the last thing I'd want to hear about my biggest, baddest, NHL used, flagship, puck catapulting weapon of a stick, is that a simple flex in the store made it meet its maker. I'd be embarrassed and would want to immediately get a new one sent out lest people think my product is that poorly constructed.

But like I said, I am getting back into hockey now and may be out of touch with the way things work.

The closest approximation I can come up with (in areas I'm familiar) is high end road race bicycles (think Lance.) Its a very similar construction process, using very similar materials, and similar design goals (light as possible, stiff in some areas, compliant in others) and in some cases the bikes and sticks are even manufactured in the same factories in Taiwan... but in the case of a bicycle frame, if it breaks the manufacturer is apologetic and gets you the latest greatest version (usually with an upgrade in model) and makes sure you realize your occurrence was a fluke, and that they really are 'better than that' - why are the stick companies so different? (besides the obvious engineered obsolescence and 'consumables' nature they've marketed)

Certainly the bike companies don't cover accidents like your frame getting run over by a car, but if it broke on a test ride, or while sitting on it in the store they would.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much out of a $300, 430gm piece of molded carbon fiber?

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

The bottom line is that sticks are designed to flex and release. Flexing a stick into the ground doesn't allow the stick to release.

You shouldn't have to make concessions for some parent whose child was acting stupidly, regardless of the fact they have a Centurion or not.

In my stores, I had signs detailing what flexing sticks in store would do. All I had to do was point to the sign.

[MorePower4me 0]

So is a composite bow/crossbow, but you can still play with one in the store without it imploding.

The only idea behind concessions for the card was only if it would help the store. Certainly he's not a superior 'person' (as evidenced by his spawn and actions in this matter) but if he turned out to be a big shopper, his lifetime sales value might far surpass the stick price. I wasn't there, I don't know.

But the whole idea behind 'flex' and not being allowed to flex the stick is a peculiar one to me.

Earlier in the thread someone referenced online service in regard to prices, saying that the advantage of the LHS is that you can try out the product, see how it feels, etc.

If going into your store is now the same as looking at a 3D picture (no touching) and reading a description about flex (not actually flexing), I would hope your (stick) prices are in line with online ones too. You've removed the entire LHS advantage and anyone's reason for not shopping on price alone.

[number21 3]

So is a composite bow/crossbow, but you can still play with one in the store without it imploding.

The only idea behind concessions for the card was only if it would help the store. Certainly he's not a superior 'person' (as evidenced by his spawn and actions in this matter) but if he turned out to be a big shopper, his lifetime sales value might far surpass the stick price. I wasn't there, I don't know.

But the whole idea behind 'flex' and not being allowed to flex the stick is a peculiar one to me.

Crossbows?

Crossbows are made to flex and hold for a period of time until the trigger is pulled. Hockey sticks are made to flex briefly as your taking a shot. That comparison is weak.

Whether or not the stick should have or shouldn't have been marked, to me, doesn't compare to some snotty-kid with no value of a top of the line stick flexing it to the point of failure. That's not testing it out. That's plain disregard for someone else property. I am sure he didn't go in with the intent of breaking it, but he did and he or his parents should be responsible for it.

I think "you break it, you buy it" applies here.

Earlier in the thread someone referenced online service in regard to prices, saying that the advantage of the LHS is that you can try out the product, see how it feels, etc.

If going into your store is now the same as looking at a 3D picture (no touching) and reading a description about flex (not actually flexing), I would hope your (stick) prices are in line with online ones too. You've removed the entire LHS advantage and anyone's reason for not shopping on price alone.

I can't quite fathom the logic of this one.

[Orange&Black 1]

Certainly the bike companies don't cover accidents like your frame getting run over by a car, but if it broke on a test ride, or while sitting on it in the store they would.

Not really applicable. You're using the bike as intended. Not putting destructive pressure on the product, making it flex in a manner it wasn't designed for.

So is a composite bow/crossbow, but you can still play with one in the store without it imploding.

Once again, apples & oranges. The bows are being used in the manner intended by the company. Not so in the case of the hockey stick, there are plenty of explanations of why in the thread already.

If going into your store is now the same as looking at a 3D picture (no touching) and reading a description about flex (not actually flexing), I would hope your (stick) prices are in line with online ones too. You've removed the entire LHS advantage and anyone's reason for not shopping on price alone.

This is getting silly. I see no problem with picking up sticks. Check out the weight, check out the curve, check out the shaft profile. Just don't stand there playing gorilla trying to flex a stick, it accomplishes nothing except putting potentially destructive stress on an item you most likely won't purchase anyway.

I don't work in a shop, but I do respect their space and inventory.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Orange&Black

[Drewhunz 3]

So is a composite bow/crossbow, but you can still play with one in the store without it imploding.

Sure, go ahead and dry fire a compound bow. I'll be a safe distance away.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

So is a composite bow/crossbow, but you can still play with one in the store without it imploding.

The only idea behind concessions for the card was only if it would help the store. Certainly he's not a superior 'person' (as evidenced by his spawn and actions in this matter) but if he turned out to be a big shopper, his lifetime sales value might far surpass the stick price. I wasn't there, I don't know.

But the whole idea behind 'flex' and not being allowed to flex the stick is a peculiar one to me.

Earlier in the thread someone referenced online service in regard to prices, saying that the advantage of the LHS is that you can try out the product, see how it feels, etc.

If going into your store is now the same as looking at a 3D picture (no touching) and reading a description about flex (not actually flexing), I would hope your (stick) prices are in line with online ones too. You've removed the entire LHS advantage and anyone's reason for not shopping on price alone.

you have no idea how composites are constructed, do you?

to maximize efficiency with respect to weight, cost, and strength the material is fine tuned to function under specific stress conditions. if you use it outside of those, it will break. I can snap a composite bow to prove a point.

[DarkStar50 679]

The latest launch of new OPS has brought all manners of toedraggers out to the shops to check and flex the new arsenals. I am sorry for Drew's experience this week. Guys like Drew, JR, Chadd, and myself have first hand experience with this situation from the employee side. It is a lot different playing traffic cop all this week with the flexers who really don't have a clue what they are doing or even why they are doing it. From our side of the shop, this nonsense gets really old really fast.

[87vert 0]

You make a very good point, there is no guarantee he throws money around on gear, but someone who drops that much money every year, on a credit card, and one that needs to be paid off every month at that... Makes my retail mind start to drool... (but I'm weird like that).

Its probably simply a company credit card. Its not that hard for a company to spend that much in a year. Especially if you just simply put everything on the card.

[DarkStar50 679]

In my shop every AE Black card I have been handed by a customer is personal, not business.

[Hockeyman11385 1]

It's not available to businesses.

[NYRSinceBirth 0]

Reaching the minimum on a Black Card can be from a business (Big or small), they could have used the card to cover that expense assuming the company can more readily absorb it than themselves. But like Blackstar said, the customers I've dealt with, the Black Card ones are more personal than for business.

And a company like Easton isn't worried about their reputation from one isolated incident. We know their products, the public knows their products, it's no surprise they're not in a rush to give you a free stick, they're a known company.

And yes, the AEC is available to companies, but it has a user on it, not a company name.

[MorePower4me 0]

Haha, mine is not a popular opinion I see!

To respond to a couple points I do NOT have extensive composite experience. I've done some cosmetic carbon fiber applications (not load bearing) both overlays and bagged, and dabbled in minor load bearing automotive applications (front splitter on an autocross car) but not nearly enough to even feign any genuine knowledge on the subject, especially an OPS designed for strength AND flex.

My point for bringing up the bow was solely to point out that carbon fiber can be made to bend, and do so repeatedly. Obviously the applications are much different, but I still challenge the idea that a stick HAS to break after a certain amount of flex cycles. Pushing it to far will break it, obviously, but I still think they should be able to last longer than some do (but thats a segway for another time).

My main beef was that being new to the sport (after a LONG time away) I could have easily made the same mistake this guy did. I would hope that I'm a bit smarter and wouldn't get it close to the breaking point, but how else do you know what your looking for? Or what the difference between 77 and 110 is?

Hell, it was a comedy of errors from the time I walked in the door according to this thread. I asked the guy if they sharpened skates (I didn't see the machine but it was pretty obvious after the fact), then I asked him how long it would be and if I should wait (I was planning on coming back the next day, but he could have thought I was in a rush) and then while he was sharpening them I was walking around looking at gloves and sticks (and flexing them - I didn't know any better and was trying to figure out what each flex # meant).

I was certainly being respectful towards the shop/worker (way too many years in retail for me and my wife is still doing retail management to be a dick) but maybe people just don't realize what they're doing?

If I had broken a stick I would have certainly offered to pay for it, its only right, but I would have definitely also speak to the warranty reps at the manufacturer to see if they would replace it. I still consider breaking before it even hits the ice to be a defect.

[Chadd 916]

Haha, mine is not a popular opinion I see!

To respond to a couple points I do NOT have extensive composite experience. I've done some cosmetic carbon fiber applications (not load bearing) both overlays and bagged, and dabbled in minor load bearing automotive applications (front splitter on an autocross car) but not nearly enough to even feign any genuine knowledge on the subject, especially an OPS designed for strength AND flex.

My point for bringing up the bow was solely to point out that carbon fiber can be made to bend, and do so repeatedly. Obviously the applications are much different, but I still challenge the idea that a stick HAS to break after a certain amount of flex cycles. Pushing it to far will break it, obviously, but I still think they should be able to last longer than some do (but thats a segway for another time).

My main beef was that being new to the sport (after a LONG time away) I could have easily made the same mistake this guy did. I would hope that I'm a bit smarter and wouldn't get it close to the breaking point, but how else do you know what your looking for? Or what the difference between 77 and 110 is?

Hell, it was a comedy of errors from the time I walked in the door according to this thread. I asked the guy if they sharpened skates (I didn't see the machine but it was pretty obvious after the fact), then I asked him how long it would be and if I should wait (I was planning on coming back the next day, but he could have thought I was in a rush) and then while he was sharpening them I was walking around looking at gloves and sticks (and flexing them - I didn't know any better and was trying to figure out what each flex # meant).

I was certainly being respectful towards the shop/worker (way too many years in retail for me and my wife is still doing retail management to be a dick) but maybe people just don't realize what they're doing?

If I had broken a stick I would have certainly offered to pay for it, its only right, but I would have definitely also speak to the warranty reps at the manufacturer to see if they would replace it. I still consider breaking before it even hits the ice to be a defect.

There is a difference between seeing how much force it takes to make the stick start to flex and putting every bit of weight on a stick and seeing how far it will bend. Kids, and a few stupid adults, will do the latter if unsupervised. Your contention that it is a defect is highly inaccurate. No manufacturer has been able to create a stick that is indestructible and also performs well.

[NYRSinceBirth 0]

If I broke a stick in a sotre, I'd simply take the receipt and send the stick back to the company for the replacement. Hopefully I broke the right curve/flex.

[The Mafia Line 0]

There was one thing no one mentioned. A KID BROKE THE STICK. I know that being in retail can leave you pretty "amazed" at how stupid some people can be, but it was just a kid. Dealing with children is like dealing with retarded animals (I know I worked in day care Center) atleast my dog sits when I tell him to. Either way, when a kid makes a mistake, you need to cut him a break and hope that the parents are responsible enough to punish them.

The situation could have been handled better on both sides, but to deface the stick and punish the parents because of a CHILDS MISTAKE is wrong in my opinion.

[goblue9280 33]

Hell, it was a comedy of errors from the time I walked in the door according to this thread. I asked the guy if they sharpened skates (I didn't see the machine but it was pretty obvious after the fact), then I asked him how long it would be and if I should wait (I was planning on coming back the next day, but he could have thought I was in a rush) and then while he was sharpening them I was walking around looking at gloves and sticks (and flexing them - I didn't know any better and was trying to figure out what each flex # meant).

Just got this song in my head as I read that...

[Drewhunz 3]

There was one thing no one mentioned. A KID BROKE THE STICK. I know that being in retail can leave you pretty "amazed" at how stupid some people can be, but it was just a kid. Dealing with children is like dealing with retarded animals (I know I worked in day care Center) atleast my dog sits when I tell him to. Either way, when a kid makes a mistake, you need to cut him a break and hope that the parents are responsible enough to punish them.

The situation could have been handled better on both sides, but to deface the stick and punish the parents because of a CHILDS MISTAKE is wrong in my opinion.

Sorry, he was 13 which I define as a kid. However, anyone over 8 should know better.

[dsjunior1388 81]

There was one thing no one mentioned. A KID BROKE THE STICK. I know that being in retail can leave you pretty "amazed" at how stupid some people can be, but it was just a kid. Dealing with children is like dealing with retarded animals (I know I worked in day care Center) atleast my dog sits when I tell him to. Either way, when a kid makes a mistake, you need to cut him a break and hope that the parents are responsible enough to punish them.

The situation could have been handled better on both sides, but to deface the stick and punish the parents because of a CHILDS MISTAKE is wrong in my opinion.

Sorry, he was 13 which I define as a kid. However, anyone over 8 should know better.

I can tell you one thing, 8 year old me never would have done that. Still have scarring around the ear from acting up in the grocery store, no way I'm going near anything worth $250

[The Mafia Line 0]

There was one thing no one mentioned. A KID BROKE THE STICK. I know that being in retail can leave you pretty "amazed" at how stupid some people can be, but it was just a kid. Dealing with children is like dealing with retarded animals (I know I worked in day care Center) atleast my dog sits when I tell him to. Either way, when a kid makes a mistake, you need to cut him a break and hope that the parents are responsible enough to punish them.

The situation could have been handled better on both sides, but to deface the stick and punish the parents because of a CHILDS MISTAKE is wrong in my opinion.

Sorry, he was 13 which I define as a kid. However, anyone over 8 should know better.

13 is the worst. They are as dumb as a child and then those hormones kick in and confuse them. you sure there wasn't a girl in the shop he was trying to impress. Non the less, the adults actions were more embarassing in this story.

[Drewhunz 3]

I freely admit that I ended up being a dick, but as in most situations I give the same attitude that I get.