The Things Customers Do

[AIREAYE 248]

Ahh I see, experience would definitely play a part. But do you guys notice a drop-off in people coming in/people wanting to try skates on?

[DarkStar50 679]

Yes, the people who are ready to buy still come in and purchase. We take as much time with them as we always do. Quite frankly, the people who used our time, knowledge, and experience to just get fitted and then leave, we no longer see. And if we don't have a skate that fits right, we do not charge $20 for trying on the wrong skates! One more thing that needs to be said is that what works in my area may not work in your area. Every LHS location and situation is unique. They each have circumstances that set them apart. There is no general generic formula for this. That is why when guys get pissed off here about a fitting fee or whatever at their LHS, it is because that is how it is in their location, not how it is everywhere. Also, as mentioned by Sputty, every area is constantly changing. My Northern NJ locale has changed with Pure Hockey and that other mega moving in. So, what worked 2 years ago may not work now. If you can't change how you do business, you're not in business very long.

[AIREAYE 248]

Yes, the people who are ready to buy still come in and purchase. We take as much time with them as we always do. Quite frankly, the people who used our time, knowledge, and experience to just get fitted and then leave, we no longer see. And if we don't have a skate that fits right, we do not charge $20 for trying on the wrong skates! One more thing that needs to be said is that what works in my area may not work in your area. Every LHS location and situation is unique. They each have circumstances that set them apart. There is no general generic formula for this. That is why when guys get pissed off here about a fitting fee or whatever at their LHS, it is because that is how it is in their location, not how it is everywhere. Also, as mentioned by Sputty, every area is constantly changing. My Northern NJ locale has changed with Pure Hockey and that other mega moving in. So, what worked 2 years ago may not work now. If you can't change how you do business, you're not in business very long.

Much respect to you sir :) To be honest, I want to get into the industry in the future and that's a reason why I'm on this forum. I guess that here in the GTA, where you have your Sportchek chains (and HockeyExperts) competing with ProHockeyLife, LHS' AND online at the same time, nobody would charge a fitting fee because customers will just turn elsewhere.

[wrangler 157]

That's exactly what we do. The fitting fee simply separates the prospects from the suspects. if this was a perfect world, customers wouldn't lie about their intentions.

It's not necessarily lying. A potential skate buyer might not be committed to new skates to the extent he'd want to go on the hook for a fee if he didn't buy, but might end up buying if he tried them on and liked them. The fee is an impediment that will weed out some that you'd like to weed out, and some that you wouldn't. It's hard to know if it would help you, on balance. Some folks like me would just see the sign and go to another LHS, after getting the feeling of not being welcome. I'd never try to get the details, or exceptions, or try to talk my way around it. I'd just go down the street to the competition.

Edited March 4, 2011 by wrangler

[jimmy 194]

You guys who don't like fitting fee's would change your tune if you were a store owner who repeatedly, every day, gets scammed by customers who sole intent is to get sized so they can buy online. I would also bet that if you took your business to another local store that didn't have a fee, it would only be a matter of time before that store started doing it as well, once they realized they were getting all the scammers now. We get scammed so much, more for goal equipment rather than skates. Nothing worse to spend hrs fitting a goalie, then seeing that same goalie at the rink the next week with "Hockey Monkey" exclusive color pads of the same make and model you spent all the time fitting. The answer for me is just to stop selling goalie equipment. Which I'm going to do. Skates may be next. It's just not worth the waste of time and money.

[wrangler 157]

You guys who don't like fitting fee's would change your tune if you were a store owner who repeatedly, every day, gets scammed by customers who sole intent is to get sized so they can buy online. I would also bet that if you took your business to another local store that didn't have a fee, it would only be a matter of time before that store started doing it as well, once they realized they were getting all the scammers now. We get scammed so much, more for goal equipment rather than skates. Nothing worse to spend hrs fitting a goalie, then seeing that same goalie at the rink the next week with "Hockey Monkey" exclusive color pads of the same make and model you spent all the time fitting. The answer for me is just to stop selling goalie equipment. Which I'm going to do. Skates may be next. It's just not worth the waste of time and money.

It sucks that we even need to have this discussion; the problem hurts all of us.

[Sputnik20 46]

I agree with Jimmy, we stopped stocking top end goalie stuff...

Plus our new store is member exclusive discount club, which deters a number of people, but those who pay attention see the value in buying an annual membership and benefit from the savings, and the expertise.

Also, as mentioned by Sputty, every area is constantly changing. My Northern NJ locale has changed with Pure Hockey and that other mega moving in. So, what worked 2 years ago may not work now. If you can't change how you do business, you're not in business very long.

Agreed, being on the western side of PH from you, there are just too many shops in our area now...not enough hockey being played for all the available equipment.

[raganblink 82]

What's the underlining issue here though? Too many shops in an area, therefore too much gear in an area? Internet accessibility? Or combination of both or just one based on your location and circumstance? Something I'm missing?

Personally, our issue is Twin Cities shops (4 hours away) and the internet. Despite for our size having a good selection (imo) people still choose to go up to Giant or w/e for their 'selection', or use us for sizing and then order online. Since a majority of the issue was online, we made it a goal to mention the hell out of that after shipping/handling etc we're the same price as the net. Previous seasons we would see literally half the business go out the door, because they'd go home and get it online... even if we were cheaper, because they assumed we were more expensive.

That other half that did purchase from us, understood, that they'd shop from us even if we were 10% higher, even 15% or so, price really wasn't the issue - because the realized that if they don't buy gear from us, then we'll go bye bye, and then they wouldn't have a place to try on the gear before they bought it, unless they drove 4 hours away.

One great thing that happened this year is a customer from a town 2 hours away, whose shop closed last season came down and was in the store the same time this local was in there - we had literally 600 sticks in stock, and he was bitching about selection. The guy from out of town mentioned out of the blue how great we were - at least we were here and had options for the sticks, different models, curves, flexes. Great moment, which we coulda recorded that and have it on constant replay.

I feel for you guys in areas that have big chains move into the area, or spread their locale. Give it 5 years and personally I can see a situation where the major markets are all controlled by bigbox stores, which really is almost happening. Quite a bit are already controlled by major retailers. But its creating a situation where literally those top 5 retailers in the US (HM, HG, TH, PH and Peranis?) control the top 40 markets, and force the little retailers out of business, because the people in those smaller markets go to the bigger markets for that 'pricing and selection'.

But anyways, is the issue the fact that the companies give out discounts for higher booking values, or that MAP is at a low % that it forces LHS to make less % on product? Or just too much turnover of product? I'd personally rather see Suggested LHS pricing at 35% instead of MAP at 30%, and have internet MAP at 40%. Kinda bullshit to those big guys, but the reason they are in business and raping regions and closing smaller places is because of the availability to have product at MAP, and get it at such a big discount that they can afford to sit on it for a long time, because literally they are making on some product the cost of 2 of that product, so if they sell one they just bought two. If they order 100 of that item, and by the time they sold that 50th of that item, they've bought their whole stock, and the rest of that is essentially pure profit. For instance, on x60 skates, HM had to have a half million in stock (cost). They have them right now for 400, they are still making about 50 bucks on those (if not more), so all the skates they sold at fullprice, they made bank off of. And the skates they are selling on closeout right now, are taking away the sales of local shops who can't afford to put them at 400, or who have the new models in and can't sell those because people are going to HM to get last year's product.

Could it be an issue where possibly that they need to continue to enforce MAP pricing for one year after it currently is dropped? That would mean that one95s right now would be dropped from that 650 down to like 400 or whatever. x60 would be dropped next year at this time. That means though that the local guys can get rid of their entire stock well before (3 years total for product then, instead of the current 2) the internet drops their prices. It would also help in sales IMO. Like if we had one95s in stock and one100s instock, at the same price, people will go for the one100 (typically, most would that's not the issue im trying to debate). But if i need to take 10% off or w/e the one95s to sell those, I will. That way I can get rid of my stock of one95s well before the internet does, thus saving money. Like this year, we wanted to get a full stock of x60s back in during september... we could have used it and sold quite a bit more, but we didn't, because we couldn't afford the risk of getting another stock in. If we coulda got 15-20 pairs in and didn't sell most of them, we'd pretty much be SOL, and break even on 5 grand worth of skates. Can't do that. But if we had another year to sell those remaining pairs, we could sell all of them at 500-550. IDK, just an idea to toss around.

[DarkStar50 679]

You guys who don't like fitting fee's would change your tune if you were a store owner who repeatedly, every day, gets scammed by customers who sole intent is to get sized so they can buy online. I would also bet that if you took your business to another local store that didn't have a fee, it would only be a matter of time before that store started doing it as well, once they realized they were getting all the scammers now. We get scammed so much, more for goal equipment rather than skates. Nothing worse to spend hrs fitting a goalie, then seeing that same goalie at the rink the next week with "Hockey Monkey" exclusive color pads of the same make and model you spent all the time fitting. The answer for me is just to stop selling goalie equipment. Which I'm going to do. Skates may be next. It's just not worth the waste of time and money.

We stopped selling upper end goalie gear a few years ago. The $ in inventory, slow sell-through, travel goalies who travel and shop out of the area, and then the internet killed that section. The deal with skates is that you have to fine tune your inventory to what has sell through. Brand X skates can't sit on your shelf, not sell, and tie up inventory $$. So Brand X better not screw up or they may not get a second chance.

From my experience on both sides, as a player buying skates and someone who fits and sells skates, you buy skates because you NEED them. Your old skates no longer fit or have broken down. The decision to buy skates, unlike most every other piece of hockey equipment is based on need, not want. "I don't need a new OPS but I want one, so I'll buy it. I want new skates but don't need new skates so I won't buy them. I need new skates now." Therefore, 90% of the time customers come into the shop "ready to buy". The fitting fee actually means nothing to them. The other 10% are the customers who just want to use your time, experience, knowledge, and inventory to get fitted, go home and online to "save" $20-$40. Running a pro shop in a busy 4 rink building means helping customers at once who are ready to purchase. If a $20 fitting fee separates those who are ready to buy from those who are not, we have earned more sales through helping those ready to buy sticks, gear, accessories, sharpenings, then from those "tire-kickers" that have no interest in purchasing skates, a time consuming process for one sales guy. In the big picture, $20 isn't really a lot of money but it is amazing how to the "tire-kickers" it is.

[Powerfibers 8]

What happens if I come in and you try to fit me, but you have nothing appropriate? This could legitimately happen. For example, I brought my 9 yr old

for a fitting and we found the Vapor line would work but they had no 4's and no idea when they would be getting them in. So we went elsewhere in town and ended up in Graf 301s which cost us about $50 more.

Would I have been out the $20? Just curious how this would work in that situation. What if the store had both, but I didn't want to spend the extra $50.

One of our local stores has a $5 shooting zone fee that they refund on purchase. I would not mind paying this, but then again I know that I am going to end up with a stick. Skates aren't so easy.

[DarkStar50 679]

If we don't have skates that are going to fit right, we don't charge the fee. It is not $20 for each pair you try on.

[Sputnik20 46]

Could it be an issue where possibly that they need to continue to enforce MAP pricing for one year after it currently is dropped? That would mean that one95s right now would be dropped from that 650 down to like 400 or whatever. x60 would be dropped next year at this time. That means though that the local guys can get rid of their entire stock well before (3 years total for product then, instead of the current 2) the internet drops their prices. It would also help in sales IMO. Like if we had one95s in stock and one100s instock, at the same price, people will go for the one100 (typically, most would that's not the issue im trying to debate). But if i need to take 10% off or w/e the one95s to sell those, I will. That way I can get rid of my stock of one95s well before the internet does, thus saving money. Like this year, we wanted to get a full stock of x60s back in during september... we could have used it and sold quite a bit more, but we didn't, because we couldn't afford the risk of getting another stock in. If we coulda got 15-20 pairs in and didn't sell most of them, we'd pretty much be SOL, and break even on 5 grand worth of skates. Can't do that. But if we had another year to sell those remaining pairs, we could sell all of them at 500-550. IDK, just an idea to toss around.

What would be best, if there was a universal MAP, that everybody had to adhere to, online or in store. Or like you said, raise MAP to 50%, which would allow the LHS's to make 35 or 40 points. Can you imagine the cheapest youth skates going for $70 bucks online and $55 in the store. Even the playing field. Planned discounts, so everybody discounts the item on the same day for the same % or $$. It will never happen.

One way I battle closeouts, is now we know that a new pair of skates comes out every two years. I book a volume of new skates that first year, and sit on it till the newer ones come out two years later. I'll order any sizes I need as I need them. I do this with everything, sticks, protective, gloves. Only helmets tend to have a life span more than two years.

If we don't have skates that are going to fit right, we don't charge the fee. It is not $20 for each pair you try on.

I have never charged anybody the fee yet (a year after posting the sign), and our "wrestling matches" with time wasters has been cut to almost nothing, while we still sell a ton of skates.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Sputnik20

[AIREAYE 248]

Who would enforce this MAP thing? the government?

[Powerfibers 8]

If we don't have skates that are going to fit right, we don't charge the fee. It is not $20 for each pair you try on.

Okay, I get that, but let me ask a different way...If I have a relatively normal foot, there might be several skate models that might fit me. What if I don't like them. How do you know that I am not just saying that so I can go buy online?

I am not saying that I don;t feel for the shop owners, believe me. I just don't know how the fee is really enforceable? I guess that is what I am politely wondering.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Powerfibers

[theflash0000 0]

Okay, I get that, but let me ask a different way...If I have a relatively normal foot, there might be several skate models that might fit me. What if I don't like them. How do you know that I am not just saying that so I can go buy online?

I am not saying that I don;t feel for the shop owners, believe me. I just don't know how the fee is really enforceable? I guess that is what I am politely wondering.

Interesting question, but the fee is enforceable by the employees refusing to measure/fit you unless/until you pay the $20 fee. That's perfectly within their rights.

This is something that is somewhat standard in the golf industry. Not necessarily for just hitting a demo driver or something like that, but pro shops routinely charge fees to go through the full iron-fitting process. The fee is almost always applied as a credit toward your purchase, if you choose to buy at the shop.

[raganblink 82]

We do same way. Just its a process that is hit or miss that can't always be perfect.

Actually just remember something, ping in the golf industry goes around with secret shoppers enforcing prices... could bauer etc do the same? Set prices at 35% instead of current 30%, and do their part to make sure everyone is selling at that price. Thus forcing lhs to be at that price, and making price really an irrelevant aspect in consumers decisions. Make service and locality the main focus point, which it should be

What would be best, if there was a universal MAP, that everybody had to adhere to, online or in store. Or like you said, raise MAP to 50%, which would allow the LHS's to make 35 or 40 points. Can you imagine the cheapest youth skates going for $70 bucks online and $55 in the store. Even the playing field. Planned discounts, so everybody discounts the item on the same day for the same % or $$. It will never happen.

One way I battle closeouts, is now we know that a new pair of skates comes out every two years. I book a volume of new skates that first year, and sit on it till the newer ones come out two years later. I'll order any sizes I need as I need them. I do this with everything, sticks, protective, gloves. Only helmets tend to have a life span more than two years.

I have never charged anybody the fee yet (a year after posting the sign), and our "wrestling matches" with time wasters has been cut to almost nothing, while we still sell a ton of skates.

[jsykes 35]

Oakley has very strict pricing rules with their sunglasses and other eyewear. A store cannot sell it for anything except their suggest retail price and they allowed a great margin of 50% for it. It worked great. Store made money and never had to worry about others undercutting them, even mail order. I bicycle shop I worked in had an "everything on sale" sale yearly and we had to put fine print on the ads, "except Oakley products" in order to comply with Oakley's policy.

So its not unheard of and would be great if more companies did that. Not only good for businesses, but good for consumers as you could confidently buy from wherever you wanted and know that it wouldnt be cheaper someplace else.

[Axxion89 32]

One of the easiest ways to battle closeout stock/gear that becomes old is to order the right amount by forecasting demand and looking at previous sales data. I don't know if many shops do that but if you can keep just enough inventory then you won't lose too much. The worse that might happen is you lose a few sales due to stockout but by what most are saying here, it would be better than a stockroom loaded with old equipment. Also, LHS need to think outside the box to compete with online retailers and offer things they cannot.

Some examples, if you have an old helmet lying around or old low end skates that are a model or 2 old, offer them away for free or half cost to a customer who buys a lot of product or who is starting off and buys their setup. If someone buys a certain amount of $$$ in gear, offer an old s17 as a raffle prize. You would be surprised how doing this helps retain customers and spreads good word about your business and gives you an edge over big box retailers.

[raganblink 82]

"order the right amount by forecasting demand and looking at previous sales data. I don't know if many shops do that but if you can keep just enough inventory then you won't lose too much. "

That's what a smart LHS does - Looks at previous years statements, and you order that same Qty that you sold last period. I'm not quite sure how others do it, but that's what we do. The second gear gets put on closeout, we drop price as well to get rid of the product. And products that we know are going to expire (like current Stealth series sticks) we would push more than the EQ series, so we're not losing out on the current stealth sticks.

Why should we need to offer things online retailers don't? We offer trying the product on before you buy, getting the product that instant, and keeping your money local. What we started doing is offering some free sharpenings for skates, I know some shops that have free sharpening for life of skate if you purchased them there. The issue is that people assume that online is cheaper, which even if it is cheaper by 5%, that shouldn't be a factor imo. You're paying for service and trying the product on etc. HM for instance prices everything at a "regular price" at 20% higher than MAP - no one has their product that high, or if they do, might not be in business much longer. But that gives people a sense that the HM price they see is such a great deal, even though it really isn't. Its MAP.

As for your second paragraph, from experience, that product will move eventually, at cost or even slightly below it. There are plenty of people who will only buy closeout gear, because they are too cheap to buy a lesser model when it is available, and just wait and wait before they get lowered in price before they get them so they can get a higher model. For instance there was a Dad who came in around October getting new gloves for his kid. his kid really needs gloves, he's in a 10 and needs a 12 in the same series. He's been coming in about once a month for sharpening etc and always looks at gloves, and always asks when they are going to go on closeout. Always same answer, March/Aprilish for the models that are being discontinued. Guess what, we don't have anymore models that are being discontinued in his kids size. So instead of getting the 8K glove for his kid from us, if he doesn't go get them online, he's going to have to settle getting x30s or something lower end. I understand why people want discounted gear, I don't hold it against anybody, I'd want a 600 dollar skate for 400, too. But, the issue that is starting to becoming more and more prominent imo is people who want that topend gear, buy are only willing to pay mid-high for it. Instead of getting that mid-high gear, that high-end will sit for a while and then they'll grab it when it gets lowered in price. People want the land rover but are only willing to pay for a ford escape.

And to get back to the point you make about "if someone buys a certain amount of $$$ in gear, offer an old s17 as a raffle prize. You would be surprised how doing this helps retain customers and spreads good word about your business and gives you an edge over big box retailers. ", personally I wouldn't want to be known as the place that has the old gear and gives that stuff away. I'd rather give away my customers a widow over a kronik.

-----

After discussing this with another local retailer (shoes) they mentioned that some of their companies have MSRP and MAP at the same price, and print that price on the box/tag for the item. I just bought some track shoes for 130 from them; thats the price online, the price at scheels, the price printed on the box from the company, and the price anywhere I could find. How then could this little local retailer compete against those people? Markup is ridiculous on the product for them, so they can afford to have 4 people working at once in a storefront that is smaller than ours, and according to them, they did the same $ amount as we did last season.

So why don't the hockey companies do the same thing? Increase that profit margin from 30% to 33-40% from wholesale, and enforce a strict pricing policy for all product low to top end that keeps the current prices as they are now? Hell you can keep it at 30% actually, that's not really the issue, any place should be able to keep the doors open on that profit margin. Just having gear the same price everywhere would help out so much. This would work out tremendously well for the shop owners and the consumer as well. For places like Twin Cities, where there is such a pricing war between the LHSs to get business, they have items that are undercut quite a bit from MAP, so that they can actually move the product, so they aren't stuck with it, or labeled the place of expensive gear etc. In an area like that, or anywhere really where it is competitive, it would level the playing field, so really, the only way people would come to your place of business is if you excelled at sharpening (possibly allowing sharpeners that are great at it to get paid more :D ), offered like a rewards membership or w/e, and location/convenience. Not price wars over themselves and the internet to get business.

Another rant thing - I'd love to see exclusive products offered by HM/GM, at a higher price than MAP on that product. I'm sorry but I gotta be honest, the navy/baby blue bauer goal chest protectors they have are way cooler than the stock ones. If I was a goalie, I would get those over the stock ones. Shit like that to me needs to be more money, so that we can sell what we have instock at the same price. But we've had 3 goalies this year so far go get those instead of the stock because of what it looks like, and that its the same price.

[raganblink 82]

To not totally derail this thread either;

I'm at lunch and on my way back to work at 130, literally no hockey going on anywhere until like 6... as I pull up I see a guy who I don't recognize but who has local plates walk out pissed and drives away. I walk in and see my boss on the phone talking to our biggest client (I recognized his voice). 3 minutes later he is done with his call and I ask why was that guy pissed? Apparently, he came in about 3 minutes before I got there and he was already on the phone, he put our client on hold for about 15 seconds and told the guy that it might be 5-10 minutes (because he knew I was coming back) for the skates he has to be sharpened... then he just said "that's ridiculous, I'm leaving", and just left.

Now I'm not the kind of guy who wants to call people names, especially people who put money to my paycheck, but, who the hell would think if you bring skates in for sharpening, that it might take less than 5 minutes for them to get done?!?! If there was another pair in front of him, or we were helping someone with a product, theres no way we could have him in and out under 5. Just blows my mind how people can get pissed if they have to wait a bit for a service. And if you're in a hurry to get back to work or whatever, leave earlier, or just drop them off and pick them up. Don't have to be a dick about it! Ha!

[DarkStar50 679]

I have never charged anybody the fee yet (a year after posting the sign), and our "wrestling matches" with time wasters has been cut to almost nothing, while we still sell a ton of skates.

We have had the same experience with posting the sign.

[dalebert 8]

To not totally derail this thread either;

I'm at lunch and on my way back to work at 130, literally no hockey going on anywhere until like 6... as I pull up I see a guy who I don't recognize but who has local plates walk out pissed and drives away. I walk in and see my boss on the phone talking to our biggest client (I recognized his voice). 3 minutes later he is done with his call and I ask why was that guy pissed? Apparently, he came in about 3 minutes before I got there and he was already on the phone, he put our client on hold for about 15 seconds and told the guy that it might be 5-10 minutes (because he knew I was coming back) for the skates he has to be sharpened... then he just said "that's ridiculous, I'm leaving", and just left.

Now I'm not the kind of guy who wants to call people names, especially people who put money to my paycheck, but, who the hell would think if you bring skates in for sharpening, that it might take less than 5 minutes for them to get done?!?! If there was another pair in front of him, or we were helping someone with a product, theres no way we could have him in and out under 5. Just blows my mind how people can get pissed if they have to wait a bit for a service. And if you're in a hurry to get back to work or whatever, leave earlier, or just drop them off and pick them up. Don't have to be a dick about it! Ha!

I've had this happen multiple times. If I'm behind the wheel and someone comes in and drops off a skate more times than not they will ask how long, I always tell them 5-10 minutes I'll get started on them as soon as I'm done with the pair I'm doing now. Sometimes (very rarely) this is groundbreaking to a customer who expects me to grow 2 more arms and work on their skates on the other wheel. I always let people know as well when there is a line of skates that it will be a bit just so they know, maybe they have errands to run or want to go watch little Timmy during his lesson while they wait for the skates to be done, almost always they have no problem and are happy you let them know how much time they have to wait. Other times they are amazed that people dare enter the shop with skates for sharpening on the same day that person plans on gracing us with their presence.

[DarkStar50 679]

District AAA playoffs started today at our building. 50 teams in on the first day. By 10 AM we had an hour back up on skate sharpening. The "nervous nellies" couldn't believe it. Sorry, but you qualified 2 weeks ago, maybe you should have thought about this sooner. As a friend said, after investing $10K in your kid's season, now you wait until the last minute for a $6 sharpening and it's our fault you have to wait?!! WTF!!

[Sputnik20 46]

One of the easiest ways to battle closeout stock/gear that becomes old is to order the right amount by forecasting demand and looking at previous sales data. I don't know if many shops do that but if you can keep just enough inventory then you won't lose too much. The worse that might happen is you lose a few sales due to stockout but by what most are saying here, it would be better than a stockroom loaded with old equipment. Also, LHS need to think outside the box to compete with online retailers and offer things they cannot.

Some examples, if you have an old helmet lying around or old low end skates that are a model or 2 old, offer them away for free or half cost to a customer who buys a lot of product or who is starting off and buys their setup. If someone buys a certain amount of $$$ in gear, offer an old s17 as a raffle prize. You would be surprised how doing this helps retain customers and spreads good word about your business and gives you an edge over big box retailers.

The easiest way I found to deal with really really old closeout products, is to donate it. I put together three $7,000+ (cost) pallets of stuff and sent it to none profit and charitable hockey organizations in HM's and PH's territories. We took a great deduction at the end of the year (I think it came out to $27,000 retail) and I moved product I had a hard time selling, even online. This works well in a number of ways. I hate doing 50% off or more sales. I hate to saturate my own territory with closeout deals and then not sell any of the new products for the following year. Example, I ran a store where the owner decided to have a 75% off blowout on product that was two years old or more. A customer bought three pairs of skates, 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0. I sold three pair of skates for the price of one, and I will not see that customer for the next three years. It's not the way to go. Now I look for donation and sending products overseas (China, Russia, and Ukraine) to get rid of old stock.

[zebra_steve 11]

Got a question for ya.... mainly because I had a kid with this issue tonight and I forgot my round and slip stones at home - lucky that they had no wait so it was not an issue.

You have that hour plus back up and a kid comes off the ice early in the first period with a totally blown edge.... do ya grind his skates ASAP or tell him that it "sucks to be you" and you'll have them done in time for tomorrow afternoons game?

Edited March 5, 2011 by zebra_steve