Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[CB1 8]

Hopefully some of the shop guys (and others) may be able to answer this question. What are the percentages of people who come into the shops for skate sharpening that choose flat bottom v over traditional sharpening? Which one is more popular?

Also how about the pro's? From what I've read here, it seems that the equipment managers somewhat dictate or influence which sharpening method is used, so curious if anyone knows the pecentages of pros using FBV over traditional.

[jimmy 194]

We do 80% FBVs, 20% hollows. Would be more but we don't try to talk stragglers and out of towners into the FBV unless they ask. Once a skater tries the FBV, very few go back to a hollow, it's that much better. Problem is not all shops offer FBVs, and many of those that do, they don't do them correctly so skaters confuse it as being bad when in reality it was just how it was done that was bad.

[EvilPepe 24]

Problem is not all shops offer FBVs, and many of those that do, they don't do them correctly so skaters confuse it as being bad when in reality it was just how it was done that was bad.

Here in a "non-traditional market" the ratio is reversed from what jimmy has noted - 80/20 favoring standard hollow. A big reason is availability and consistency, especially when it comes to those who travel a bit to other rinks and aren't good about being proactive in their sharpening upkeep.

[jimmy 194]

Here in a "non-traditional market" the ratio is reversed from what jimmy has noted - 80/20 favoring standard hollow. A big reason is availability and consistency, especially when it comes to those who travel a bit to other rinks and aren't good about being proactive in their sharpening upkeep.

Exactly, when someone tries a FBV first time, if it's not done right they are not going to like it and go back to a hollow thinking the FBV is bad, when in fact it's not. I had a customer the other day come in, he got what he said was a FBV at a big online store that has some retail locations somewhere. It was done poorly, he didn't like it. I had to really convince him that if he got a real FBV done right he would like it. It helped that the 5 or 6 customers who came in while he was at our shop all asked for FBVs when they got up to the counter. A bad sharpener can fake putting a hollow in but a FBV has to be perfect.

[isk8byu 4]

For what it is worth, a couple weeks ago I asked my cousin from Minneapolis, MN (playing in USHL this fall) if he or any of his friends/teammates used FBV. He very quickly said, "no". I know that isn't very scientific, but he is an elite HS player (transitioning to Jr A), in arguably the biggest hockey state in the US, and he was confident that no one he knows is really using it.

Now I have tried it myself and I liked the sharpening, but I think most important is even edges and good finish. I really wonder if someone had a high quality ROH and a high quality FBV if there would be a noticeable difference...or if FBV gets preferred by some folks because the sharpener was forced to ensure even edges, etc due to the nature of the shape.

[CB1 8]

Interesting! My son (and I...since I started this late in life) have always used FBV (the LHS we use does a very good job). A team mate's parent suggested we move to traditional in case my son needs his skates sharpen when traveling, thus was curious about how prevalent FBV is out there. I always try to make sure his skates are properly sharpened before we hit the road, but we're aware something could happen. So was trying to decide if we should move to traditional or just get an extra set of sharpened steel to take as backup.

[jimmy 194]

Shops that offer FBV are few and far between, heck most don't even offer hollow choices, I doubt they'd invest in a FBV machine with all the different options. They are content to offer a "regular" that everyone gets. We see teams from all over the country when they are in town for tournys. Most give us the deer in the headlight look when we ask them what setting they would like.

CB1, having a spare set of steel is always a good choice, especially when in the first period you or your son loses an edge or breaks a runner and the pro shop is closed. Being able to pull a runner out of your bag is priceless.

[Chadd 916]

For what it is worth, a couple weeks ago I asked my cousin from Minneapolis, MN (playing in USHL this fall) if he or any of his friends/teammates used FBV. He very quickly said, "no". I know that isn't very scientific, but he is an elite HS player (transitioning to Jr A), in arguably the biggest hockey state in the US, and he was confident that no one he knows is really using it.

Now I have tried it myself and I liked the sharpening, but I think most important is even edges and good finish. I really wonder if someone had a high quality ROH and a high quality FBV if there would be a noticeable difference...or if FBV gets preferred by some folks because the sharpener was forced to ensure even edges, etc due to the nature of the shape.

Not scientific at all, for so many reasons. It's my understanding that MN is often one of the last places to migrate to new tech in hockey, I've been told that by several different manufacturers.

Yes, there is a noticeable difference if you understand the concept. Even a lot of people that don't understand feel the difference and can't explain it.

I will be merging this topic into the existing FBV topic, no need for a different topic on this.

[EvilPepe 24]

CB1, having a spare set of steel is always a good choice, especially when in the first period you or your son loses an edge or breaks a runner and the pro shop is closed. Being able to pull a runner out of your bag is priceless.

Can't agree with this enough - I always tried to get travel parents to at least consider it. For $60ish they don't have to worry about closed pro shops, poor road sharpening, or the lack of FBV somewhere else. And while I'm usually the first to poke fun at Bauer's transition to Edge holders/steel, it has made it easier for many more to run with two sets of runners.

[jimmy 194]

Can't agree with this enough - I always tried to get travel parents to at least consider it. For $60ish they don't have to worry about closed pro shops, poor road sharpening, or the lack of FBV somewhere else. And while I'm usually the first to poke fun at Bauer's transition to Edge holders/steel, it has made it easier for many more to run with two sets of runners.

The edge system is pretty cool, a great improvement for sure, but once you change runners a couple of time using the screw system, it really only takes a liilte longer, perhaps 1 minute.

[EvilPepe 24]

The edge system is pretty cool, a great improvement for sure, but once you change runners a couple of time using the screw system, it really only takes a liilte longer, perhaps 1 minute.

Right. You know that and I know that, but the first time you show little (or not so little) Johnny's parent and they realize they have to stick their hand in there, you've lost them :P

[Chadd 916]

The edge system is pretty cool, a great improvement for sure, but once you change runners a couple of time using the screw system, it really only takes a liilte longer, perhaps 1 minute.

That's why I live the external systems like Easton and CCM have used.

[All Flash 49]

Can someone please tell me the difference between the 3 wheels ( orange, ruby, and pink) for the X02 series sharpeners before I drop almost 40$ in shipping costs on 2 wheels.

Any insight is much appreciated.

[Chadd 916]

Orange is a little softer than Ruby, don't recall using the pink. Ruby was always the standard in the shops that I worked, but I find that for doing a low volume of skates, I prefer the orange. I feel like I am able to get a nicer finish on the steel than with the Ruby.

[All Flash 49]

Thanx Chadd might have to go with 2 Ruby and 1 Orange.

[jimmy 194]

Orange is a little softer than Ruby, don't recall using the pink. Ruby was always the standard in the shops that I worked, but I find that for doing a low volume of skates, I prefer the orange. I feel like I am able to get a nicer finish on the steel than with the Ruby.

Orange sucks for high volume, lots of wheel residue when dressing. You can blow thru a wheel in no time. But does a nice job on stainless.

[Chadd 916]

Orange sucks for high volume, lots of wheel residue when dressing. You can blow thru a wheel in no time. But does a nice job on stainless.

I only sharpen for friends now, volume is way down compared to what I used to do. I can see how it would be problematic for a regular operation.

[AfftonDad 88]

Here is the new Butterfly Gauge - the squaring device is the same one that has been offered by Blackstone, however, the angle is what is different. It's a hardened aluminum that is score-proof and still works on similar squaring devices.

I just ordered one. Cheaper than what I paid for the BR100. That's a bonus!

[adam14 182]

I'm a big fan of the new gauges, I find them way more accurate than the spring loaded ones we had before

[ChunkyThunder 2]

Is FBV sharpening give a feel more similar to inline skates? (sorry if this question has been asked before, didn't find much in the search)

I'm coming from inline and I just feel kind of uncomfortable on the ice but on inline skates I'm very comfortable and just feel good in them. I'm completely new to ice though, and have been playing inline for about a year so I don't know if I just need to ice skate more to get more comfortable or need to try a new hollow or FBV. I'm skating on 1/2" right now

[althoma1 574]

Ice won't ever feel exactly the same as inline, but I find using a shallower hollow helps. Either a shallower traditional hollow or FBV. A fairly deep cut like 1/2" is the standard at a lot of places, but is likely only optimal for lighter skaters under 150lbs or those who prefer more bite. I personally prefer FBV. If you have FBV available in your area then try starting with something like a 90/75 and then if you can handle even less bite you can try a 90/50 FBV cut (that's what I use, but I'm also over 200lbs and used to use a 7/8" standard hollow before switching to FBV). If you don't have FBV available in your area then try going to 5/8" and if you can handle less bite then perhaps 3/4".

[rfm1237 0]

X-01 owners- How is this machine holding up over time? I'm not looking to do high volume (a couple of pairs at a time), but it seems like some of the other machines (e.g. the blademaster 850 or Wissota 911) have much more industrial strength motors for almost the same price. Has reliability been an issue for anyone? I'd like to make sure I'm buying something that will last.

Thanks-

[DEATHTRON 19]

Had mine about 2 years now. I have a regular rotation of about 10 pairs of skates. No problems here. Hell, just the other night I was thinking that I've only been through two grinding wheels (currently on my third).

The other machines are definitely more substantial, but that doesn't mean that the X01 cant get the job done just the same. Did I mention that the spinner dressing system is fantastic? I don't miss the radius arm one bit.

Zach

[ChunkyThunder 2]

Ice won't ever feel exactly the same as inline, but I find using a shallower hollow helps. Either a shallower traditional hollow or FBV. A fairly deep cut like 1/2" is the standard at a lot of places, but is likely only optimal for lighter skaters under 150lbs or those who prefer more bite. I personally prefer FBV. If you have FBV available in your area then try starting with something like a 90/75 and then if you can handle even less bite you can try a 90/50 FBV cut (that's what I use, but I'm also over 200lbs and used to use a 7/8" standard hollow before switching to FBV). If you don't have FBV available in your area then try going to 5/8" and if you can handle less bite then perhaps 3/4".

How exactly would less bite change my skating? Would it be like having wheels that don't grip too much? I'm sorry if this is a really potato question

[althoma1 574]

It's about finding the right amount of bite/grip just like roller. If in roller hockey you have wheels that are too grippy they'll also be slow and you'll expend more energy. If you use a hollow that's too deep then you'll have great grip, but you'll dig into the ice more and will have less glide - you'll have to expend more energy when skating around. You want to have less bite so that you can be more on top of the ice and get better glide, but you don't want to go so shallow that you start slipping out on turns. Just like you'd experiment with different wheel durometers in roller, you need to experiment with different hollows in ice to find out what is right for you.

The great thing about FBV is that it allows you to have more glide while still having good bite compared to traditional hollows. For example, I find I have at least as much (if not more) glide with the 90/50 FBV compared to a 7/8" traditional hollow, but when it comes to sharp turns there's more bite with FBV.