Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[vek 0]

Been skating on the 90/75 FBV for a while now and love it. Two question

1. Most people say the sharpening last longer then regular sharpening, but for me i feel like the sharpness feels really sharp for an hour, then kinda in between sharp and dull for 3 hours then after that it needs to be sharpened again or i feel like im a sliding everywhere. For regular sharpenings i felt like the period of between sharp and dull takes a lot longer 6 - 8 hours. Is this just me becoming a better skater and wanting sharper blades or what? Anybody feel FBV requires more frequent sharpening.

2. Accorsing to the blackstone videos sharpening should only take a few passes on each skate. My sharpener takes twenty minutes to do FBV. Should it be taking this long or what, how long does your FBV take?

1. I had the same opinion when I first tried the FBV, but found that taking a stone to the edges before each skate seemed to extend the length of time between sharpenings, to the point to which I get them sharpened now about the same as with my old hollow. I think there's probably some psychology in it as well, since there is definitely a "floaty" feeling when not using your edges that kind of gives you less confidence in your blades until you get used to the fact they're always there when you need them.

2. Seems a bit lengthy....

[Giroux28 0]

anybody know a place that does this in the philly area or even jersey?

[Chadd 916]

anybody know a place that does this in the philly area or even jersey?

http://www.blackstonesport.com/fbv_where.cfm

If that list is up to day, I'm probably the closest one to you and I'm not very close.

[mnpucker 33]

from looking at the pictures on the website, it is hard to tell what comes with the x-01. it doesn't say anything about a batgage, but in the pic it shows there is one there. same with the x-33 kit, it shows a spinner, but that isn't listed under what comes with it. has anyone bought the x-33? and what comes with the x-01?

IF you would like a Bat Gage let me know. I have one I would sell.

[BMcDonald19 0]

from looking at the pictures on the website, it is hard to tell what comes with the x-01. it doesn't say anything about a batgage, but in the pic it shows there is one there. same with the x-33 kit, it shows a spinner, but that isn't listed under what comes with it. has anyone bought the x-33? and what comes with the x-01?

IF you would like a Bat Gage let me know. I have one I would sell.

thanks man, but it looks like the x-33 kit would be well worth getting at the same time as the x-01.

[goaliemanshark 6]

Regarding your sharpener taking 20 minutes to do a pair... I take about the same amount of time to sharpen my skates at a FBV than I do a ROH, which is around 5-6 minutes a pair. And I haven't screwed up a single FBV cut for my customers. Not sure why it takes your guy so long. I hope it's just because he's meticulous.

Yea i hope so too... They charge two extra dollars because it is a "premium" cut, but it shouldn't take any longer to do certainly not 15 plus minutes longer. Am I losing extra steel length when he sharpens them longer? How does one go about telling a sharpener he is too slow? Or even should i?

I just skated on the skates last night at public skate, and i think you guys are right, as i become a better skater i think i want the sharper edges. This is the 8th hour i have skates on these edges and they have felt the same since hour 3. They arent dull enough to really NEED to be sharpened, just would be nice.

[aarondevera 0]

I understand why shops charge more for "premium" sharpenings, but IMO it's stupid. I give each and every one of my customers the same level of quality, regardless of whether or not its a FBV, ROH, Goalie, etc. It's not like any more effort is required on my behalf to do a FBV than a ROH. I suppose that's probably a perk of working in a corporately owned store rather than a mom n' pop LHS.

Like I said, I don't need any more or less time to do a FBV than a ROH. You're obviously gonna lose more steel if he take more passes, and if I were you I'd try to watch his technique while he's sharpening. Don't bother telling him he's a slow sharpener, though. What I'd do is ask him why it takes longer to do a FBV. If his service is solid, he shouldn't have any issues explaining.

[Chadd 916]

I just skated on the skates last night at public skate, and i think you guys are right, as i become a better skater i think i want the sharper edges. This is the 8th hour i have skates on these edges and they have felt the same since hour 3. They arent dull enough to really NEED to be sharpened, just would be nice.

For me it is about consistency. I want my edges to be the same every time I get on the ice. I don't want to have to try and recall the last time they were sharpened and adjust my skating to match the blades.

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

I understand why shops charge more for "premium" sharpenings, but IMO it's stupid. I give each and every one of my customers the same level of quality, regardless of whether or not its a FBV, ROH, Goalie, etc. It's not like any more effort is required on my behalf to do a FBV than a ROH. I suppose that's probably a perk of working in a corporately owned store rather than a mom n' pop LHS.

Like I said, I don't need any more or less time to do a FBV than a ROH. You're obviously gonna lose more steel if he take more passes, and if I were you I'd try to watch his technique while he's sharpening. Don't bother telling him he's a slow sharpener, though. What I'd do is ask him why it takes longer to do a FBV. If his service is solid, he shouldn't have any issues explaining.

Well, you guys already had the setup already, all you had to do was buy the FBV Spinners. Some stores had to buy new machines or alter their existing machines to do this.

Other than that, if there is an advantage, why not charge more?

[Chadd 916]

I understand why shops charge more for "premium" sharpenings, but IMO it's stupid. I give each and every one of my customers the same level of quality, regardless of whether or not its a FBV, ROH, Goalie, etc. It's not like any more effort is required on my behalf to do a FBV than a ROH. I suppose that's probably a perk of working in a corporately owned store rather than a mom n' pop LHS.

Like I said, I don't need any more or less time to do a FBV than a ROH. You're obviously gonna lose more steel if he take more passes, and if I were you I'd try to watch his technique while he's sharpening. Don't bother telling him he's a slow sharpener, though. What I'd do is ask him why it takes longer to do a FBV. If his service is solid, he shouldn't have any issues explaining.

Well, you guys already had the setup already, all you had to do was buy the FBV Spinners. Some stores had to buy new machines or alter their existing machines to do this.

Other than that, if there is an advantage, why not charge more?

There's an argument to be made for offering a superior service for the same price. Charging more can be seen as gouging.

[shotty 7]

How does one go about telling a sharpener he is too slow? Or even should i?

i'd tell you to pound sand if you told me i was too slow. as soon as you hand over your skates, you're at their mercy.

i worked at a hockey shop once upon a time and i had the pleasure of being trained on a blademaster machine by a guy who works for blademaster teaching people how to use the machine. by no means was i an expert, but i got lots of compliments because of my attention to detail. anyways, this dude comes in and basically tells me i suck. i opened the shop door and invited him to sharpen his own skates... dude had NO CLUE what he was doing.

moral: unless you're 100% sure you can do better, don't comment on someone's ability.

[aarondevera 0]

+1, definitely.

At the same time though, I don't ever mind if a customer has any questions. I feel like if I can't speak confidently about what I'm doing or how I'm doing it, I shouldn't be doing it at all.

[furlanitalia 1]

I don't mind paying more, but I thought more work was involved (hockey shop also takes about 20 min each pair). By the sounds of it, and fbv requires no more effort then an ROH? hmm, even more argument to get my own machine...

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

Well, it's like an oil change. Putting standard 10W-30 as opposed to say, Mobil1. Same work, you're paying more for the better oil.

[aarondevera 0]

Yeah, that makes sense, JR. I guess our store looks at sharpening as more of a labour-based charge, and for the most part I agree. Like I said, FBV doesn't require me doing any extra work aside from dressing the wheel. We've got more and more customers coming in asking for it now though, so maybe head office will catch on and bump up the price of FBV. Maybe they were waiting to see if the technology was a wash before they tagged a couple more bucks to it.

Edited August 4, 2009 by aarondevera

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

I mean, the FBV Spinners are $35 more than conventional Spinners.

At this point in your case, you can't raise the price.

[shotty 7]

Well, it's like an oil change. Putting standard 10W-30 as opposed to say, Mobil1. Same work, you're paying more for the better oil.

and aren't the machines significantly more expensive?

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

Well, if you had a Stealth (or a Liberty/Turbo with Spinner) from the beginning, there's nothing more to do than to buy the FBV Spinners.

If not, you either had to a) buy a new machine with a Spinner, B) buy a new bowl and a Spinner system and modify your existing Blackstone (which involves cutting out space in your hood), c) buy a portable or d) buy the new standalone Spinner dresser. Basically, there's an investment involved, and it takes quite a while at $5 and up to pay off your initial investment.

[jimmy 194]

and... the spinners are way more expensive than a conventional diamond. and the spinners can only be bought from Blackstone, not from the local diamond store so shipping is more as well. So when you add the initial cost of the machine and supplies, added shipping costs, it does cost more per sharpening.

[shotty 7]

which is just as i suspected. although i dont argue the price, you are paying for something that costs more, it isn't necessarily a premium service, just an alternative service that costs more.

[GKC 0]

...Plus re-training the staff.

Even if you have a stable full of great tech's, that hour or so you spend telling them about the system, and explaining the how's and why's...It's still time.

Then there's the sales staff... It's not much of an investment if it never gets sold.

-G

[jimmy 194]

...Plus re-training the staff.

Even if you have a stable full of great tech's, that hour or so you spend telling them about the system, and explaining the how's and why's...It's still time.

Then there's the sales staff... It's not much of an investment if it never gets sold.

-G

Absolutely correct. It's hard enough explaining a regular hollow to a customer, having to sell a FBV and explain what it is is a lot of work and does takes time ... and time is money.

[freestyla 0]

...Plus re-training the staff.

Even if you have a stable full of great tech's, that hour or so you spend telling them about the system, and explaining the how's and why's...It's still time.

Then there's the sales staff... It's not much of an investment if it never gets sold.

-G

Absolutely correct. It's hard enough explaining a regular hollow to a customer, having to sell a FBV and explain what it is is a lot of work and does takes time ... and time is money.

I learn everything I need to know from here thankfully :D But I've worked sales and I know how tough customers can be...

[dumbpolak9 1]

idk if its been posted but what which you recommend on getting i hit the ice about 6 times a week during the season and im fed up with the guy that does mine at the rink, he literally runs it twice over the sharpener and hes done. so im looking for one for myself so i could do them and not spend money one worthless sharpenings. its most likely be located in the a finished basement with a bar down there but nobody uses it, or a garage

[shotty 7]

^ put it right at the bar.

beer and a sharpening, $6