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BlackIce

Graf Skates - Few NHL Players

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on another note, I was looking at changing out the tongues on my S17s, if I contacted graf, would it be possible to get a set of ordinary felt tongues off them?

Sure, but it may take three months and they'll likely be different sizes when they do show up.

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on another note, I was looking at changing out the tongues on my S17s, if I contacted graf, would it be possible to get a set of ordinary felt tongues off them?

Check with Easton (rep probably)....I got the pro stock white felt on my black s17's.

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He also had a pair of black and purple grafs in his duck days with a 91 embroidered on them

Wow, do you have any pictures of that? ahah

fedorovskates.jpg

Fedorov's skates from his time with the Mighty Ducks.

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Chadd,

You obviously have a very strong opinion against Graf and I was wondering if there are any specific stories or instances you can share in detail that would shed some light on to how your opinion developed? On the surface, it seems that you've had bad experiences with their QC and customer service, but I'm just trying to get a deeper understandings of the issues.

The reason I ask is because I'm about to pull the trigger on new skates and I've narrowed it down to either X:60's or G35's. I would venture to say that the G35's fit me better, the heel lock is instant and it feels like a slipper when I tie it up - a lot like the old style skates from when I was young. Not that the X:60's don't fit well, but there is a little more "wiggle room" in them. That room could go away with a baking but its tough to tell. I also don't get perfect heel lock (its good, but not perfect) in the X:60's, but again that is something that baking may potentially fix.

To give a bit of background, the last two pairs of skates I bought were S15's and One95's. The S15's had good heel lock, were a little wide in the forefoot and gave me horrible lace bite (the first time I've ever had that from a skate). The One95's were an ok fit, they gave me minor lacebite issues at the second eyelet, which I was able to resolve through skipping that second eyelet, the problem is when I skip that eyelet I lose the heel lock I get when they are fully laced and my heel starts to slip. So through all that I've come to the conclusion that my foot seems to fit the Vapor last better than the Supreme last since the skate I keep coming back to is a pair of Vapor XX's that are now almost 6 years old.

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Chadd,

You obviously have a very strong opinion against Graf and I was wondering if there are any specific stories or instances you can share in detail that would shed some light on to how your opinion developed? On the surface, it seems that you've had bad experiences with their QC and customer service, but I'm just trying to get a deeper understandings of the issues.

The reason I ask is because I'm about to pull the trigger on new skates and I've narrowed it down to either X:60's or G35's. I would venture to say that the G35's fit me better, the heel lock is instant and it feels like a slipper when I tie it up - a lot like the old style skates from when I was young. Not that the X:60's don't fit well, but there is a little more "wiggle room" in them. That room could go away with a baking but its tough to tell. I also don't get perfect heel lock (its good, but not perfect) in the X:60's, but again that is something that baking may potentially fix.

To give a bit of background, the last two pairs of skates I bought were S15's and One95's. The S15's had good heel lock, were a little wide in the forefoot and gave me horrible lace bite (the first time I've ever had that from a skate). The One95's were an ok fit, they gave me minor lacebite issues at the second eyelet, which I was able to resolve through skipping that second eyelet, the problem is when I skip that eyelet I lose the heel lock I get when they are fully laced and my heel starts to slip. So through all that I've come to the conclusion that my foot seems to fit the Vapor last better than the Supreme last since the skate I keep coming back to is a pair of Vapor XX's that are now almost 6 years old.

I've personally seen more problems with Graf skates than every other brand combined, despite being much less common in this area. I've also seen some pretty severe problems posted here that I haven't seen from other brands. Combined with the worst customer service in the industry that I've had to deal with, I really find it really hard to every suggest buying Graf. I'll have to see if I can find the story that lkptiger (I think) had, that was an abortion from the start.

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I have a pair of G3's and 703's also and am more than pleased with both of them. I've seen some issues posted here and other places but not had a single problem with either pair of them I have. IMO if you are pleased with the fit and can see the actual ones you plan to buy then go with the Grafs. Why settle for skates that don't fit you right?

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IMO if you are pleased with the fit and can see the actual ones you plan to buy then go with the Grafs. Why settle for skates that don't fit you right?

I agree, just make sure you go over them with a fine tooth comb and make sure there aren't any problems. Never buy Grafs without going over them first.

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Do you have any specific hints about what to look for other than the alignment of holders and stitching?

I've seen tongues incorrectly installed, right skate on left sole (and vice versa), soles pulling apart from the boot, holders misaligned, steel not at 90 degree angle from the holder, gaps between toe cap/boot and missing eyelets.

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I've seen tongues incorrectly installed, right skate on left sole (and vice versa), soles pulling apart from the boot, holders misaligned, steel not at 90 degree angle from the holder, gaps between toe cap/boot and missing eyelets.

What's their final inspection process like...do they even have one? Those are obvious issues, most of which can be caught by simply looking at the skate.

How in the world can they let product like that ship...

Curious as to how many of those customers ended up canceling their orders and going with a different brand?

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Diamond and charcoal are made from the same material. Show me two Graf skates of the same model that are alike. Some say they are handmade? I say very poor quality control. They let things pass that no self-respecting gear amker should have let out of the shop. You want to see hand made? Check out John Brown's gear. Made in Canada (with pride!).

Again, no offense to Trish.

Graf Canada and Swiss Graf. Apples and oranges. Two completely independent legal entities.

I have a pair of Swiss 750 customs.

Graf Canada customer service in my experience was non-existent.

The campaign of being made in Canada by somebody who knows the game points to a 340lbs girl name Trish who knows how to use a sawing machine (no offense Trish).

What is left? Whatever works best for your feet.

They may be different legal entities but it seems to me that they share the same IP and construct the same boots. The only difference seems to be the customer service. In Canada it is "lean."

nah, Swiss is much better quality.

That might be true for the 700 line but I don't see how the G line would be any different.

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on another note, I was looking at changing out the tongues on my S17s, if I contacted graf, would it be possible to get a set of ordinary felt tongues off them?

Before you spend the money I would make sure a change in the toungue won't change the way they fit and feel too much for you. Perhaps one of the shopowners here can tell you If the felt is appreciably thicker than what you've got, and if that it could change the volume, depth or the way it laces up for you.

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I know this is an old thread, but for anyone else that stumbles on to it I thought I'd comment.

As a Graf dealer i can tell you they are one of, if not the best made skate out there. As of the past few years Graf has come out with the new "Technology" series. This is the new flashy skate made with all the latest composits. It has a very firm outer shell with multiple flex ( stiffness) options in the higher level skates. The newer series is very moldable and well fitting, however they are still making the even more comfortable classic series boot as well.

As for the pros wearing them, as I was once asked, wouldn't you wear a less favorable skate if you were paid a million dollars a year to do so.

Graf will not pay any one to wear their product. Those that do, wear them because they like them. Also a large majority of the pros have Graf custom inserts made for thier other less comfortable brand skates.

As for issues, all products have some issues once in a while. We have far fewer issues with the Graf brand than any other.

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As for the pros wearing them, as I was once asked, wouldn't you wear a less favorable skate if you were paid a million dollars a year to do so.

Graf will not pay any one to wear their product. Those that do, wear them because they like them. Also a large majority of the pros have Graf custom inserts made for thier other less comfortable brand skates.

AFAIK the amount of players that have million dollar sponsorship's are an extremely small handful. The vast majority of NHL players aren't sponsored and use whatever equipment they are the most comfortable with.

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I know this is an old thread, but for anyone else that stumbles on to it I thought I'd comment.

As a Graf dealer i can tell you they are one of, if not the best made skate out there. As of the past few years Graf has come out with the new "Technology" series. This is the new flashy skate made with all the latest composits. It has a very firm outer shell with multiple flex ( stiffness) options in the higher level skates. The newer series is very moldable and well fitting, however they are still making the even more comfortable classic series boot as well.

As for the pros wearing them, as I was once asked, wouldn't you wear a less favorable skate if you were paid a million dollars a year to do so.

Graf will not pay any one to wear their product. Those that do, wear them because they like them. Also a large majority of the pros have Graf custom inserts made for thier other less comfortable brand skates.

As for issues, all products have some issues once in a while. We have far fewer issues with the Graf brand than any other.

Someone drank the Kool-Aid. Hard.

AFAIK the amount of players that have million dollar sponsorship's are an extremely small handful. The vast majority of NHL players aren't sponsored and use whatever equipment they are the most comfortable with.

1. And because he's a "global" athlete.

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AFAIK the amount of players that have million dollar sponsorship's are an extremely small handful. The vast majority of NHL players aren't sponsored and use whatever equipment they are the most comfortable with.

Or whoever gives them the best service

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Graf may be comfortable, but their approach is so different--lower cut boots, aggressive pitches--that it makes for such a different kind of skating, which people either love or hate, and while I know pitch and radius can be reset to what other skates offer, a lot of kids don't know about that, so it seems their "convert 'em while young" appeal is extremely low. Weight also is such a big issue with skate buyers now.

Personally, I love the way Grafs skate, and everything including their laces feels perfectly tuned for me. But I completely understand why they're suffering in near-irrelevance.

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Or whoever gives them the best service

9/10 times the athlete, musician or whomever else is concerned uses a product publicly because they like their factory reps.

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Graf doesn't pay anyone to use their products from what i've been told, and their skates are for the most part, arguably the most comfortable boot you can own.

I would probably say that refs wear them for the discreet colour schemes and the comfort more than anything.

arguably the most comfortable?

really? I really prefer older skates that aren't full of technology.

I like something comfortable and with some flex to it. I want my old Bauer Custom Supreme 200s back

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As for issues, all products have some issues once in a while. We have far fewer issues with the Graf brand than any other.

Out of curiosity, exactly how much of the "other brands" do you carry?

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Out of curiosity, exactly how much of the "other brands" do you carry?

Second sentence included the fact that they are a Graf dealer. Everything after that is conjecture.

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