Bauer Supreme TotalONE

[aarondevera 0]

Good to know. Thanks, JR!

[SolarWind 23]

Did anyone else notice the TO's being significantly easier to flex right out of the box?

YES I have! In fact I posted a thread about it not so long ago...

I've had T1s pretty much since they came out so over 4 months now, and in my personal experience the feeling you had in the store (T1s being MUCH softer then One95, One100 & X60) will translate to ice as well...

I skate with x-stiff inserts BTW, with medium the skates felt literally like butter.

somewhere I heard it was intentional (JR commented that what was expected with internals being different between T1 & One95/One100), but I'm not sure I understood the intent since it took me personally quite a while to adjust.

So for my customs I'm going with the increased stiffness just to bring that 'on rails' feel of One95 that I personally miss quite a bit.

[aarondevera 0]

YES I have! In fact I posted a thread about it not so long ago...

I've had T1s pretty much since they came out so over 4 months now, and in my personal experience the feeling you had in the store (T1s being MUCH softer then One95, One100 & X60) will translate to ice as well...

I skate with x-stiff inserts BTW, with medium the skates felt literally like butter.

somewhere I heard it was intentional (JR commented that what was expected with internals being different between T1 & One95/One100), but I'm not sure I understood the intent since it took me personally quite a while to adjust.

So for my customs I'm going with the increased stiffness just to bring that 'on rails' feel of One95 that I personally miss quite a bit.

Thanks for the input... I've been thinking about going the custom route for a while, so you may have just pushed me to it.

JR (or anyone else who's had experience with Bauer's custom skate options), how far would I go to stiffness-wise to get the same 'on rails' feeling of the One95? 4? You mentioned something about the internals being different, is this playing into the stiffness factor?

[b33f 0]

I just picked up the TOs last week and skated in them tonight. Extremely stiff compared to the Graf 703s I came from using, and will really take some getting used to. Has anyone had any problems with both outside edges of the tongues? They seem to be somewhat pinching/rubbing my ankle and slowly peeling away the skin. I have always worn my shin pads over the tongues (but I don't think this is the problem), and somewhat remember having a very mild case of this same problem in my Vapor XXs. Anyone with any input/remedy/cause would be helpful.

[DarkStar50 679]

Loosen the laces and allow the tongue to move a bit with your stride. Did you tie the knot a bit too tight?

[b33f 0]

I tried that towards the end of the skate, didn't seem to work.

[B19Kress 0]

I switched to superfeet after about 20 skates. Should i get them rebaked to allow for the slight heel lift superfeet provide? The spot where my ankle bone goes feels like it is a little off now...

[b33f 0]

I switched to superfeet after about 20 skates. Should i get them rebaked to allow for the slight heel lift superfeet provide? The spot where my ankle bone goes feels like it is a little off now...

Considering you feel the fit is a bit off, I would say yes.

[Jason 65]

So Bauer designed the Total One to be softer than the One95? Why, I thought the One95 was a near perfect skate. Are they softer laterally or only in forward flex? I'm gonna have to try on a pair to see how they compare to my custom 0ne95's (stiffness 2).

Not sure if anyone will know the answer to this question, but I'm wondering why the One95's and now the TO's are higher cut boots than the One90's were and the X:60's are? I liked the height of the One90's I had, so I asked Bauer to make my One95's the same height. They chopped the boot down a bit (~3mm) for me and I've loved the skates. I'm debating whether to get my next pair of Supremes cut to the same height. It was mainly for range of motion and ankle mobility that I did it. I'm guessing it's part of the whole power vs. agility thing that they have going on between the Supreme and Vapor line. Any insight into this topic would be appreciated. Sometimes I wish I could just go to St. Jerome and spend an hour touring around and chatting with Covo, Langevin and the boys. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[IniNew 53]

I thought stiffness 2 was retail stiff? As far as higher cut boots go.. it's to offer something different. Sure, you like lower cut, but the next guy might not. Solution? Release one skate (X:60) with a lower cut, and one (One95) with a higher cut. All about getting a larger market.

[troy 12]

Two is retail stiffness, so if retail T1s are softer than retail ONE95s, then his custom skates will still provide an accurate comparison.

[shooter27 116]

Not sure if anyone will know the answer to this question, but I'm wondering why the One95's and now the TO's are higher cut boots than the One90's were and the X:60's are?

I know the TO's are higher cut than the One90's, but I'm pretty sure they are the same height cut as the X:60. When I looked at them I lined them up together and they were pretty much the same height, there may have been a 1-2mm difference, but it wasn't significant.

[Jason 65]

I know the TO's are higher cut than the One90's, but I'm pretty sure they are the same height cut as the X:60. When I looked at them I lined them up together and they were pretty much the same height, there may have been a 1-2mm difference, but it wasn't significant.

X:60's are pretty much exactly the same height as the One90's were and few mills shorter than the One95's and TO's. Does anyone know about the stiffness question? Are the TO's actually softer than the One95s? What about lateral stiffness? I don't mind if they flex forward a bit more, but I don't want a skate to torque or flex laterally too much.

[DEATHTRON 19]

Concerning stiffness here real quick; Stiffness refers to the "stiffening" inserts that go into the skate. Overall stiffness of the skate can be affected by the material the skate is made up of.

Zach

[SolarWind 23]

Concerning stiffness here real quick; Stiffness refers to the "stiffening" inserts that go into the skate. Overall stiffness of the skate can be affected by the material the skate is made up of.

Zach

Tongue inserts are certainly related to the overall stiffness of T1 since as many people reported the skate feels stiffer with X-stiff insert then it does with medium or stiff one, but I don't think this is the point .

Somehow it feels that the question of the overall skate stiffness (when comparing T1 with One95 or X60) seems to be being carefully avoided by many users of T1 on this site.

the internals are different between T1 & One95 which is what might have caused reduction in the overall stiffness (similar to S15 being a victim of the race to reduce the skate weights)?

[Jason 65]

Thank you SolarWind for the honest answer. I agree with you that people seem to want to keep it a secret. I'm gonna have to head into a store and try some retail TO's on. Maybe they'll have a set of One95's or One100's in my size to compare to. I realize that the tongue inserts can adjust the stiffness to your liking, but a person can always put a different tongue on a skate. I was referring to the quarters themselves. I thought someone in the know might be able to say something like "I talked to so and so at Bauer and they said that feedback from testers was that the One95 was too stiff in certain areas, so they went back to the drawing board to address the issue". I haven't tried on TO's yet, but to hold them in your hand and squeeze them, they feel very close in stiffness to the One95's IMO.

[SolarWind 23]

I'm just sharing my personal observations after a few months of skating in T1 regularly, but I don't have any inside info as to what the design goals were...

I haven't tried on TO's yet, but to hold them in your hand and squeeze them, they feel very close in stiffness to the One95's IMO.

Actually I'd probably disagree since squeezing the quarters together in T1 felt quite a bit easier then One95/One100 to me anyways... I just tried again tonight - same feeling.

[puckhoggy 0]

I have a pair of TOs, but can not compare stiffness of it to the One95 or One100 since I haven't skated in those. On top of that, I wore Grafs previously, so the TO seem pretty stiff already.

[Vathsdrop 0]

It's been known for a while now that the TO is softer than the one100/one95.

It's actually not a bad thing when you see the kind of players targeted by the skates. They are expansive and useless, specifically designed for geeks and people who consider their skates as fashion accessories.

As soon as I saw the ONE100 it was clearly a Pro version of the TO, they cut all the crap (reflux tongue, no fusion, pro level stiffness etc..). The only problem is that they are selling them 50dollars less than the one95 (wooohhoo) which is old but at least was able to justify its price by being made in Canada.

It's not a secret, it's just that on this board you have some people working hard to make you believe that the TO is like the best skate ever made of the world.

Even though they can barely stand on their skates them self.

It's been a while that bauer hasn't come up with such a bad skate line.

A top of the line that isn't as stiff that the model below, a one100 which is identical to the one95 from last year except it's made in Thailand now.

The one80 seems to be alright though.

[MLSman 22]

It's been known for a while now that the TO is softer than the one100/one95.

It's actually not a bad thing when you see the kind of players targeted by the skates. They are expansive and useless, specifically designed for geeks and people who consider their skates as fashion accessories.

As soon as I saw the ONE100 it was clearly a Pro version of the TO, they cut all the crap (reflux tongue, no fusion, pro level stiffness etc..). The only problem is that they are selling them 50dollars less than the one95 (wooohhoo) which is old but at least was able to justify its price by being made in Canada.

It's not a secret, it's just that on this board you have some people working hard to make you believe that the TO is like the best skate ever made of the world.

Even though they can barely stand on their skates them self.

It's been a while that bauer hasn't come up with such a bad skate line.

A top of the line that isn't as stiff that the model below, a one100 which is identical to the one95 from last year except it's made in Thailand now.

The one80 seems to be alright though.

Wow...

I don't know where to start on how wrong your general assessment is. How can you say that the One100 is a pro level skate when ALL of the pros are wearing the TO...not the One100? Just because SOME pros choose a standard tongue doesn't mean that it is a One100.

Almost all elite level players will go custom...and you CAN NOT get the One100 as a custom order. That enough kills your premise.

I have been playing competitively for over 28 years, and have a significant amount of experience with pro skates. The TO is certainly not crap. I initially was very reluctant to take JRs advice to go with the reflex tongue, because I have been playing with custom skates and pro felt tongues for some time. Not only does the technology work, but if you look carefully...a significant number of pros wearing the TO in the NHL are using the reflex tongue. NHL pros RARELY make such drastic changes...unless there really is something to the technology. I can tell you, from personal experience, that I thank JR frequently for making that recommendation...and you can ask the people I play with about how much better my skating has been since going to the TO. The reflex tongue has a lot to do with it.

The second point is about the fusion steel. Weight reduction will always be highly desired at the elite level. I have been using it for 4 months now, and I can tell you that it has that single benefit. At an elite level, getting the same level of performance at a lighter weight is an improvement. Period.

You may consider the TO a "fashion statement", but to me it just sounds like a justification in your mind for not spending the money. Your whole argument lacks a single factual statement.

What IS fact is that the ability to have a skate made to my exact foot and specifications with the best materials and options is vastly superior to any retail skate you use...and you can't do that with your choice. Good luck trying to convince the world otherwise.

From a stiffness perspective (to get back on topic), I went to a 3 on the TO. I used a 3 stiffness on my custom x60s, and a 4 on my custom U+ pro reloaded. I wore a One95 retail boot on the ice only once, and decided not to get the skate because the custom XXXXs (also a 3 stiffness) I had were vastly superior to me in comfort and were almost new....so there was no desire. Of all the boots, the x60 in a 3 stiffness was by far the stiffest boot. The TOs I currently use are not as stiff...but not by much. In the case of the TOs, the 3 stiffness was the perfect balance. Keep in mind I used to skip the top eyelet for all other skates to get better flex. With the TO being a lower cut boot and the advantage of the reflex tongue, I lace the top eyelet. It's not one thing that makes the boot better for me, it is the combination of the lower cut, custom fit, reflex tongue, and proper lacing that works...in no particular order. "Sum of the parts" in this case has brought me to skating utopia...I just can't tell you how awesome it is to skate for 3 hours straight, and come off the ice with absolutely no foot pain. Makes it worth EVERY penny.

[Jason 65]

If you wanted more lateral stiffness in the TO, couldn't the engineers just make the ALIVE a bit thicker in certain areas. I really don't think that Bauer was simply trying to make the lightest skate possible and sacrifice the performance or structural integrity. If the TO is softer or allows more flex, it was on purpose.

Easton skates don't compare to Bauers IMO. I had a pair of Z-Airs. They were like bricks compared to the Bauers I've had since. Easton doesn't even offer a skate for a narrow foot anymore. What a joke.

[Vathsdrop 0]

You have your opinion, I have mine

But I'm gonna answer since you've been correct and polite !

Let's see if this brilliant invention (reflex tongue) will be still on the next line..

If you need 700dollars skates to skate it's sad.

I do not agree on the weight saving idea. We are talking about 60g here..

-If you go to pee (your bladder holds approx 500ml of urine) the density of urine being almost the same than water you'll lose 250-500grams.

-you drink a glass of water (25cL) before you will actually be heavier by 250g

-In the end don't worry, during the warm-up, you easily lose more than those painful 60grams for those who are not on fusion runner.

Those kind of "weight reduction", elite level or not don't make any sense. It's the same level of weight reduction between thick or thin socks .

I clearly don't have the money for these skates

I still think it's a very bad move from them to not have at least their top of the line skates made in Canada.

Actually it's kind of brave of you to spend 700dollars on a Thailand made skate

I'm just looking around me, who get these skates ? Kids, teenagers, 40years-old fellas who can barely skate, ..

[jcp2 2]

You have your opinion, I have mine

But I'm gonna answer since you've been correct and polite !

Let's see if this brilliant invention (reflex tongue) will be still on the next line..

If you need 700dollars skates to skate it's sad.

I do not agree on the weight saving idea. We are talking about 60g here..

-If you go to pee (your bladder holds approx 500ml of urine) the density of urine being almost the same than water you'll lose 250-500grams.

-you drink a glass of water (25cL) before you will actually be heavier by 250g

-In the end don't worry, during the warm-up, you easily lose more than those painful 60grams for those who are not on fusion runner.

Those kind of "weight reduction", elite level or not don't make any sense. It's the same level of weight reduction between thick or thin socks .

I clearly don't have the money for these skates

I still think it's a very bad move from them to not have at least their top of the line skates made in Canada.

Actually it's kind of brave of you to spend 700dollars on a Thailand made skate

I'm just looking around me, who get these skates ? Kids, teenagers, 40years-old fellas who can barely skate, ..

Hey, I resemble that comment about 40 year old fellas!

[SolarWind 23]

I do not agree on the weight saving idea. We are talking about 60g here..

-If you go to pee (your bladder holds approx 500ml of urine) the density of urine being almost the same than water you'll lose 250-500grams.

-you drink a glass of water (25cL) before you will actually be heavier by 250g

-In the end don't worry, during the warm-up, you easily lose more than those painful 60grams for those who are not on fusion runner.

Actually I agree with MLSman: most of the arguments you use for dishing T1 aren't holding water.

take the one above for instance: I don't think it's a valid point since you're referring to the weight that would be stored to one's center of gravity, vs at the very end of one's legs where the basic law of levers kick in & that 60g DOES in my opinion make a difference.

The Reflex tongue also does make a noticeable difference: the 'coil effect' easton was trying to achieve with 1500C/S15 skate (and arguably did achieve at least to some degree) Bauer has achieved through the reflex tongue.

the new liner is very cool too - stays mostly dry & dries very fast after the game.

if it wasn't for the reduced stiffness (and the price of course) though it'd have been a perfect skate - but like MSLman said it can be addressed through customs process (didn't work for me so far, but I'll keep trying).

In the NHL though the traditional skates do seem to dominate still... There're just TONs of XXXX & X60 out there...

Just recently I observed an advanced level player (40+ years of continues hockey - up to minor pro level) switch from One95 to T1s - he's still adjusting so maybe that's the reason, but currently his skating isn't as good as it used to be...

[jcp2 2]

I get the combination of good forward flex and lateral stiffness by having well fitting stiff skates that are either lower cut or last eyelet skipped with the lacing being snug but not tight to give me some room when leaning forwards.