Bauer Supreme TotalONE

[Vathsdrop 0]

Actually I agree with MLSman: most of the arguments you use for dishing T1 aren't holding water.

take the one above for instance: I don't think it's a valid point since you're referring to the weight that would be stored to one's center of gravity, vs at the very end of one's legs where the basic law of levers kick in & that 60g DOES in my opinion make a difference.

the most important thing is that you believe in your speech

Again 60g.. a tape job. Weird that you didn't mention that this weight in movement will be multiplied by 4 or so

On the other hand, the life span is lower, the replacement is unaffordable although it should not be a problem if you managed to crack 700USD in the 1st place. Eventually you'll end up with some regular LS2 in a few years, there's no market for a 250USD blade replacement, it will disappear quickly from the catalog in a 1-2year time. Even though I hope I'm wrong and that it will become democratic.

My advise would be to hit the gym first before getting some TO.

Again in the absolute, it's not a bad skate. It's not the 1st time a manufacturer come up with some gimmicks more or less appreciable, everyone will have its own judgment according to its PP.

But at 800USD and made oversea it is definitely not a "good" skate.

They should have priced them at the regular 600USD, and put the one100 around the 400dollars since it's not really a "new" skate (more kind of a face-lift).

In the meanwhile no need to be reasonable, since there are some many bauer whores out there.

[Jason 65]

Vathsdrop, you are right to some extent about the weight savings. 60g is not that much really. However, SolarWind makes a good point also. Weight at the extremities is a lot different than weight near your center of gravity. I haven't used the reflex tongue yet, but in theory it seems like a really good technical improvement. I wasn't happy when the they went back to an older tongue on the One95 coming from the One90. I always think that improvements can be made on each new model. 60 grams isn't much, but if you look at where we are now with skate technology compared to 10-15 years ago, it's night and day. You said you don't need $700 skates to skate well. That may be true, but a good skater will likely skate better in a high end skate than they would in a low end skate. It should also be noted that one of the main reasons that the game itself has progressed to the level it has is improvements in equipment technology and skate technology more than anything. Imagine trying to wear the floppy leather skates that Bobby Orr wore. Imagine how good he would have skated in todays skates.

As for prices, you got me there. I feel like a fool sometimes spending what I do on skates and gear in general. I guess the only way these escalating prices will stop is if we stop buying high end gear. It's tough though.

[raganblink 82]

What the heck kinda pricing are you guys talking about? T1s map is 800. Fusion steel is 120....

[DarkStar50 679]

It is interesting that VD has never skated in the T1 yet seems to have the most criticism of the T1. Perhaps if his critique of the T1 had an on ice frame of reference, it would lend some credibility to his comments. Until such time as VD actually does ever skate in a T1 to offer constructive criticism from actual on ice experience, I will have to disregard his comments as having a bias of his making.

[SolarWind 23]

It is interesting that VD has never skated in the T1 yet seems to have the most criticism of the T1. Perhaps if his critique of the T1 had an on ice frame of reference, it would lend some credibility to his comments. Until such time as VD actually does ever skate in a T1 to offer constructive criticism from actual on ice experience, I will have to disregard his comments as having a bias of his making.

as usual it's very well said: the theory only goes so far.

having that said though could you plase weight in on the issue given your wast hands-on experience with all high-end skates?!

[MLSman 22]

You have your opinion, I have mine

But I'm gonna answer since you've been correct and polite !

Let's see if this brilliant invention (reflex tongue) will be still on the next line..

If you need 700dollars skates to skate it's sad.

I do not agree on the weight saving idea. We are talking about 60g here..

-If you go to pee (your bladder holds approx 500ml of urine) the density of urine being almost the same than water you'll lose 250-500grams.

-you drink a glass of water (25cL) before you will actually be heavier by 250g

-In the end don't worry, during the warm-up, you easily lose more than those painful 60grams for those who are not on fusion runner.

Those kind of "weight reduction", elite level or not don't make any sense. It's the same level of weight reduction between thick or thin socks .

I clearly don't have the money for these skates

I still think it's a very bad move from them to not have at least their top of the line skates made in Canada.

Actually it's kind of brave of you to spend 700dollars on a Thailand made skate

I'm just looking around me, who get these skates ? Kids, teenagers, 40years-old fellas who can barely skate, ..

As technology matures and advances, minor changes will develop. Will the reflex tongue be in the next line of top end skates? Maybe not. But I guarantee you that alive material will be built into the next tongue...it's called progress.

No one said I needed $700 skates to be good, but I can afford to have the best technology available...and to be accurate my skates were $900 because they were custom...you might have missed that part.

Your weight argument yet again misses the "sum of the parts" argument I made previously. How many elite level players are wearing a skate weighing more than 900 grams? Not many. It's because of advances in materials and technology. I like trying the best. Sometimes it doesn't always work (U+ reloadeds are lighter and were a fit disaster for me in the ankle). This time it does...for me.

It's getting more and more expensive to make things in North America. I understand why they make skates overseas. They are a business and have to find a way to maximize revenue. If I agree with one point, however, it is how disappointing it is that the cost of doing business moved the production away from home.

And again...since it seems you missed this point - mine were custom...BOTH pairs I have. Made in good ol' St Jerome. Only took 3 weeks. Still can't believe how fast they showed up.

You seem to have a different cross section of demographics than I do. Up here in Central NY (Syracuse vicinity), the only people I see wearing TOs, One95, x60s are elite level players. Most 40 year old fellas out here rock the Bauer 4000s proudly in men's leagues. I am the only 35+ year old player that skates with the younger elite groups. I don't see any people younger than 24-25 with the exception of college D1 and D3 players wearing elite level skates. I don't do public skating and I live in a world of hockey when my boot touches the ice, so I don't know a place to see the type of skaters you are describing.

There are a ton of Bauer whores here...but EVERYONE that knows me here knows that I am not one of them. I want what works. If you notice other posts, I still think that the real hit this year will be the U+ CL skate. It's good to see them back in the game strong. That promotes growth, advancement, and in the long term...even better things to come. I use CCM helmet, CCM pants...but again...nothing retail (with the exception of my shins...I have two year old One90s and just love them). I almost went with Tuuk Custom+ on my TOs...JR again convinced me to try the fusion steel. Another good call on his part.

[mojo122 535]

While I have had my TotalONEs since April, I actually just got around to wearing them on the ice for the first time yesterday. Reason was that after having gone back to my One95s I was really enjoying the performance of that skate and was in no hurry to switch things up. Now being at the start of my Fall/Winter leagues, I thought it an opportune time to break the TotalONEs in.

Background on my TotalONEs is that they are customs; quarter sized plus 2; double stitched; heel lifts; plus 1 on the holder size; and with the X60 liner. My One95s were also custom with the only other change being black clarino liners and old school Supreme tongues.

My opinion after one good 2-hour workout is that I do not see or feel any difference in stiffness, but felt greater forward flex with the TotalONEs from the combination of the lower oriented top eyelet along with the reflex tongue. I too considered not going with the reflex tongue and sticking with the Supreme tongue, but am happy I did not. Granted only one skate and the medium inserts, so I cannot wait to experiment with the stiff and extra stiff inserts.

From a consumer’s standpoint, I feel that most of the skate manufacturers make a good performing top line skate. It just comes down to fit and preference.

[Vathsdrop 0]

It is interesting that VD has never skated in the T1 yet seems to have the most criticism of the T1. Perhaps if his critique of the T1 had an on ice frame of reference, it would lend some credibility to his comments. Until such time as VD actually does ever skate in a T1 to offer constructive criticism from actual on ice experience, I will have to disregard his comments as having a bias of his making.

Who is more likely to be biased : The regular hockey players/simple customers or the guys who get all the stuff for free and enjoy a privileged relationship with Bauer for years ?

If you flip back, you'll see that I've been among the 1st "normal" guy to actually have my hand on the T1. Again it's not a bad skate, the price makes it a bad.

The day I'll see you or your kind make a objective statement on the price, I'll maybe consider you as something different than Bauer salesman whose only goal is to do some propaganda here. And I perfectly understand If you want to keep getting free stuff before everyone, fair's fair.

It's simple, today if you are on the market for some top of line bauer skates :

Coming from one95 or XXXX, not everyone like to show off in the locker room with some plasticALive reflux thong or alu runner. Just getting the same level of stiffness would be great. That let you :

-made in Thailand golden one95 from last year for 600USD. That are actually great skates, you just wish to be 2 years back to get the one95.

OR

-x60 (with absolutely not a single innovation compared to the XXXX, except one of the worst inner liner ever). I was actually considering of getting a pair of these, since in europe the price is not as crazy as in US, until I saw the state of a whole U-16 team pairs in the repair shop that was not even a season old. Since they have a bauer's sponsorship it's not a big deal for them, but it might be for me. In the end a XXX is still undefeated. That's real innovation

Basically they came up with the 2007-2008 skate line in different color, except now no questions -> all skates are made oversea.

That's the picture I have of Bauer now. I've known them in better shape (although i'm pretty their profits have never been so high) more into hockey.. there were a time when they didn't need limited editions all over the place to sell skates.

[DarkStar50 679]

So what if the T1 was a car being critiqued by VD, then we would be taking his critique from a person that has never driven the car. However, he looked under the hood and said the engine did not have enough horsepower based on what he saw, he looked at the steering wheel and said the car could not handle in traffic based on what he saw, and finally he looked at the interior and said it could not be comfortable based on what he saw although he never sat in it. Would you buy a car from this guy? If he ever gets the car out of the showroom, then we can talk.

[MLSman 22]

So what if the T1 was a car being critiqued by VD, then we would be taking his critique from a person that has never driven the car. However, he looked under the hood and said the engine did not have enough horsepower based on what he saw, he looked at the steering wheel and said the car could not handle in traffic based on what he saw, and finally he looked at the interior and said it could not be comfortable based on what he saw although he never sat in it. Would you buy a car from this guy? If he ever gets the car out of the showroom, then we can talk.

Dark:

I'm with you on this one. It's hard to judge a skate that you never wore or was not made for your foot. I was so sick and tired of trying to find a boot last that worked for me since 2000. The Nike Ignite 1 was my favorite skate...because the last of the prostock boot was damn near close to my exact foot dimensions. That sold me on the idea of a custom boot...and have never looked back.

When speaking of elite level skates, I really do have an issue with buying retail. Why the hell would you spend so much money without considering a custom fit that will not breakdown as fast due to a proper fit (assuming of course that the person doing the measurements knows what they are doing)? Premature breakdown has just as much to do with an improper fit as it does for any other reason. When you are dealing with an $800 skate, I just can't imagine spending that kind of money on the hope that the last will work for me. The upcharge of a custom skate in the case of the TO is literally 8.5%...in most cases that is equal to sales tax.

This is why I have so many issues with people complaining about an elite level skate at the retail level. Nothing that is mass produced will ever compare to something that was made to fit you. People buy cars and put chips in them to increase performance, gas mileage, etc. People buy Harleys and put on custom chrome pipes, saddlebags, etc. With the hockey skate being the single most important component in performance, why does a custom boot seem so crazy...at such a relatively low upcharge?

Over the last few years, I have cut down my spending on hockey gear substantially. In all cases, custom equipment has cost considerably less than retail products. Pro stock gloves barely used are at least 50% less than top line retail gloves. Pro stock new pants? About 25-50% cheaper. Pro stock new Helmets? Over 100% cheaper in many cases. Sticks? 25-50% cheaper than retail. Protective? Same pattern. With that said...there is one area I just won't compromise on cost.

The key to longevity is in the feet. Ask Peter Forsberg why he can't play anymore. I'm no pro...but I want to enjoy the sport for as long as I can...it's still one of the very few things in my life that bring me back to a time of pure childhood bliss. When I am on the ice all of the stress of my job, being a parent to a 5th grader that thinks he knows everything, being a husband with a single income...disappears. Hockey is my therapist, my anti-depressant, and my time machine. Coming home from playing 2-3 hours at an elite level with no pain in my feet whatsoever makes the cost absolutely irrelevant.

You just can't put a price on what my TOs give me right now...and I look forward to enjoying the next 3-5 years with this feeling.

[eric42434224 1]

Look....it makes perfect business sense to create different levels of a product to capture as much of the market as possible. Faulting Bauer for this comes across as having a personal issue. Each model has differing price points with differing features. Buy it or dont. Critiquing Bauers decision to create such an expensive skate with features you might not feel are worth it is one thing....but to critique the the actual performance of a skate without actually using the skate is just plain silly. That coupled with the attitude that Bauer is the devil, can pretty much nullify any credibility.

[Vathsdrop 0]

If you consider that the skate is completely different without the fusion runners, then I never tried these.

But in Europe the retail version doesn't have the fusion (still very light though).. although I saw some with fusion runners but I am pretty sure they are coming from ebay (so us version).

As I said fundamentally it's not a bad skate.

Is it worth 800USD -> Everybody will agree no

Is it worth getting them -> Everyone will judge. Most important thing is to feel good in them.

I just believe the attitude of Bauer toward their customer with this new line is despicable.

[eric42434224 1]

If you consider that the skate is completely different without the fusion runners, then I never tried these.

But in Europe the retail version doesn't have the fusion (still very light though).. although I saw some with fusion runners but I am pretty sure they are coming from ebay (so us version).

As I said fundamentally it's not a bad skate.

Is it worth 800USD -> Everybody will agree no

Is it worth getting them -> Everyone will judge. Most important thing is to feel good in them.

I just believe the attitude of Bauer toward their customer with this new line is despicable.

What is Bauers attitude? They are giving the consumers a choice. They have cheaper versions of each skate line. Should mini-vans and sedans be the only choice for automobile models? Of course not. Ferraris and Lamborghinis have a market, regardless if some think it isnt a good value. If bauer didnt make SEVERAL models of the same skate at varying lower price points, you might....might...have a point. But calling Bauers "attitude" despicable for offering a higher price point skate, coupled with the fact you have no actual experience using the product, just sounds like to me like you have a personal issue with them.

[puckhoggy 0]

Does anyone feel the TO's have a high arch?

I put a pair of Superfeet in mine and i feel like my forefoot is hanging off a cliff. Should i go back to stock insoles?

[GoWings85 0]

Does anyone feel the TO's have a high arch?

I put a pair of Superfeet in mine and i feel like my forefoot is hanging off a cliff. Should i go back to stock insoles?

Have you ever used Superfeet insoles before? I remember when the rep came in to do a demo, at a snowboard shop I used to work at, he said they may not be comfortable right away and that your foot will have to adjust to the new alignment. Not sure if this is the problem, but something to look at before you decide to sell them. Hope it helps.

[puckhoggy 0]

Have you ever used Superfeet insoles before? I remember when the rep came in to do a demo, at a snowboard shop I used to work at, he said they may not be comfortable right away and that your foot will have to adjust to the new alignment. Not sure if this is the problem, but something to look at before you decide to sell them. Hope it helps.

ya, ive been wearing them for my grafs for quite a while now. I ended up buying a new pair for the TO skates, but found there is quite a gap between the insoles and my forefoot. So i thought maybe the TOs have a high arch already and i can therefore just use stock insoles... :S

[eric42434224 1]

I don’t see what the big fuss is all about. In any monopolized industry all major players have the option to rebrand the same thing and overcharge you, we’re no different.

Actually can you justify a figure skate boot costing $800 which is made mostly from traditional material.

MLMan has a very valid point, you have to be an idiot to spend $800 on a pair of skates and try to work them in, when you can add another $100 for custom option which does give you a very wide range of options. So unless you’re purchase of retail T1s’ was an impulse purchase then you get what you paid for. And please let’s not start a discussion on the expectations of any product which was an impulse purchase.

Now there is one excuse companies can justify on jacking up the prices for the same rebranded product, we’ll never know this, but maybe they spend another 3 million on new concepts which did not work, so they have to justify those expenses.

Cheers

It all comes down to one thing. Its a business and they have a product to sell....but you dont have to buy it. You as the consumer have the power of choice. There are many alternatives (different brands) including varying price points in the very same line. I agree....dont see what the fuss is about.

[aarondevera 0]

While I have had my TotalONEs since April, I actually just got around to wearing them on the ice for the first time yesterday. Reason was that after having gone back to my One95s I was really enjoying the performance of that skate and was in no hurry to switch things up. Now being at the start of my Fall/Winter leagues, I thought it an opportune time to break the TotalONEs in.

Background on my TotalONEs is that they are customs; quarter sized plus 2; double stitched; heel lifts; plus 1 on the holder size; and with the X60 liner. My One95s were also custom with the only other change being black clarino liners and old school Supreme tongues.

My opinion after one good 2-hour workout is that I do not see or feel any difference in stiffness, but felt greater forward flex with the TotalONEs from the combination of the lower oriented top eyelet along with the reflex tongue. I too considered not going with the reflex tongue and sticking with the Supreme tongue, but am happy I did not. Granted only one skate and the medium inserts, so I cannot wait to experiment with the stiff and extra stiff inserts.

From a consumer’s standpoint, I feel that most of the skate manufacturers make a good performing top line skate. It just comes down to fit and preference.

Mojo, would you mind posting a pic or giving feedback on how the TO feels with the X60 liner? I am putting forward my order for customs soon, and forgot to consider that liner as an option.

Thanks!

[mojo122 535]

I'll try to have my daughter get a picture over the next day or so. I went with the X60 based on feedback from users I skate with and how it has held up in the Vapor line. Almost stayed with the clarino liner, but wanted to try something different and did not want to get the stock liner without having had some long term use experiences behind them.

[QandA 0]

Has anyone tried the totalones with the stock tongue and the 'technology' in it, and than swapped for a traditional felt tongue? If so, any feedback?

[IniNew 53]

Has anyone tried the totalones with the stock tongue and the 'technology' in it, and than swapped for a traditional felt tongue? If so, any feedback?

In JR's review, he covers the reflex tongue quite well. Just checked the prices, and if the One100 tongue is suitable, you'd be better off buying them with separate Fusion Steel.

[Tommyj214 3]

speaking of total ones, i just baked mine today! It felt like they were vaccume molded to my foot, and felt like slippers! i cannot wait to skate in these on monday!

[Quintin 16]

Am I right in guessing these skates come in a neutral pitch?

[SolarWind 23]

Am I right in guessing these skates come in a neutral pitch?

nope - why would they if they use the exact same LS2 holders & steel profile?

they're -1 out of the box.

[puckhoggy 0]

nope - why would they if they use the exact same LS2 holders & steel profile?

they're -1 out of the box.

Are cobra holders a +1 then? What profile would be similar to graphs?