Gas prices

[Rustpot 1]

I know some guys who work at the Chrysler HQ and they echo what Chadd said. It's not a matter of "can they meet CAFE regs?" it's a matter of "can they build cars people will buy and meet CAFE regs?"

When the majority of Chrysler's sales are Ram trucks, 300/Challenger/Charger with V6 or Hemi, and Jeep Wrangler/Cherokee it's hard as hell to meet a fleet MPG regulation that's continually rising. It's mostly why the 200/Avenger and Journey are getting the bulk of the advertising time and money from Chrysler.

What's killing me right now is trying to replace my 2001 Volvo wagon that gets 24 mixed mpg. I want something closer to 30 mpg that's about the same size. No one makes a larger mid to fullsize wagon that isn't an SUV/crossover, and if they do it either gets crap for mileage or is German and is twice what I can pay.

I'm all for raising national requirements for average vehicle MPG since it forces companies to do better and continually improve their powertrains, but I think with the current set of tiers in place it's putting too much of a strain and forcing the companies to cut corners and find loopholes instead of figure out how to get a 250hp engine to get over 35mpg in a full size vehicle.

I certainly HATE the idea of being told to buy a hybrid or a "green" car by our current President. I'd much rather buy a 37mpg diesel, a 40mpg Focus, or a 30mpg Taurus than a 44mpg Hybrid small call or a 35mpg full size at greater cost up front, greater cost in maintenance, greater cost in disposal, greater economic impact, and with less performance and less storage.

Add to the fact that people who bought cars 2-3 years ago and didn't factor in $4+ gas or having to move to a different job with a much longer commuter and now essentially stuck with the car and can't just pop on down to the nearest Obama-Motors and pick up a Hybrid for instant gas pump relief. It would be cheaper for me to buy and fill up an older 18mpg SUV twice a week than it would be to add the loan/lease for a new high-mpg vehicle to my monthly bills, only to see the fuel bill drop by $40.

[kovalchuk71 212]

Buying Premium gas will be the death of me. $4.07 today.

[Axxion89 32]

Buying Premium gas will be the death of me. $4.07 today.

PSHHH Get on my level, $4.50 in CT for Premium, I've been in heaven with Jersey gas prices and never wanna go back to CT haha

[Jason Harris 31]

Chadd and Rustpot, while i agree with you to an extent, it doesn't fully jibe with my time in the auto industry. For instance, Automotive News had an article a couple of weeks ago that sales had slowed down after Japan's earthquake, were finally picking up, but, because the high price of gas was leading to sales of the higher mileage cars, there were concerns about profits in the industry.

Additionally, my observation is the trucks and SUV's habitually were given better programs (what the industry calls the specials of the month). For instance, 0% for 72 months would rarely go on sedans, but would be available on the truck platform four times a year.

[ndlancer95 0]

PSHHH Get on my level, $4.50 in CT for Premium, I've been in heaven with Jersey gas prices and never wanna go back to CT haha

Where in CT? in Fairfield county its more like $4.65 premium

[Chadd 916]

Chadd and Rustpot, while i agree with you to an extent, it doesn't fully jibe with my time in the auto industry. For instance, Automotive News had an article a couple of weeks ago that sales had slowed down after Japan's earthquake, were finally picking up, but, because the high price of gas was leading to sales of the higher mileage cars, there were concerns about profits in the industry.

Additionally, my observation is the trucks and SUV's habitually were given better programs (what the industry calls the specials of the month). For instance, 0% for 72 months would rarely go on sedans, but would be available on the truck platform four times a year.

Smaller cars are less profitable, they can't afford to run those specials on a vehicle that doesn't generate much profit. After two run ups in gas price in the last three years, you're finally seeing more people buy more fuel efficient cars. That is new, and contrary to the established buying habits of the last 10-15 years. When gas prices went back down last year, Toyota had problems selling Prius inventory. Now, thanks to gas prices and production issues, they can't keep them in stock a lot of dealers are charging a premium for them.

[Rustpot 1]

Chadd and Rustpot, while i agree with you to an extent, it doesn't fully jibe with my time in the auto industry. For instance, Automotive News had an article a couple of weeks ago that sales had slowed down after Japan's earthquake, were finally picking up, but, because the high price of gas was leading to sales of the higher mileage cars, there were concerns about profits in the industry.

Additionally, my observation is the trucks and SUV's habitually were given better programs (what the industry calls the specials of the month). For instance, 0% for 72 months would rarely go on sedans, but would be available on the truck platform four times a year.

Whose sales had slowed after everything that happened in Japan? Ford and GM posted record 1Q numbers (for the last few years) just a few weeks ago.

I seem to recall more cars getting incentives as they're introduced. The Big 3 are usually in sales races for their quarter-ton models and have "Truck Month" or brand equivalent as a sales boost in off-peak season and large end of year sales since they generally overproduced trucks and SUVs in the past. It may also be a regional thing, trying to boost sales in your market.

The fact of the matter is that until now, as in the last 3 months now, a car shopper wouldn't be caught dead in the "Hybrid" when the "Denali" carries a similar price. Now I'm seeing Yukons with large, obnoxious decals declaring they're hybrid, as if the driver is trying to scream that they're smart, when they've really just bought into the new media hype on how it's cool to drive a hybrid despite all of the disadvantages for an extra 2-5mpg in a truck.

Yukon Hybrid - $51,610 base price. 20/23 MPG

Yukon Base - $38,945 base price. 15/21 MPG

You'd have to drive over 47,000 miles MORE with the non hybrid to offset the price, assuming a flat $4/gallon and 15MPG (of which we had less than a month over $4, it's now under 4 again here after peaking at $4.30 for two weeks).

This is an extreme, but according to the media, our President, and social pressure, it's much smarter to buy the hybrid.

Not to mention how the base model would fare given all of the treatments other than the powerplant the hybrid model gets, like improved aero packages and LRR highway tires.

[Axxion89 32]

I did a class assignment in regards to Hybrids vs High Mileage regular engine vehicles and the regular cars (Honda FIT, Toyota Yaris, etc) saved much more money than the Hybrids. Hybrids are only worth it, IMO, if you actually care about the planet and not about you wallet.

I am more intrigued by the Diesel engines, such as the Volkwagon TDI which gets good mileage and Diesel engines are great. Might be my next car if I get rid of mine.

[Leafsrule16 5]

You'll always have the personal choice to buy the lowest mileage car available; the only difference is the lowest mileage car today might be 9 MPG, whereas five years from now it might be 13 MPG.

Regarding the durability of the cars, today's cars are actually lasting longer overall; it's not unheard of for cars to hit 100K with no more than oil and tire changes. And they're more comfortable and safer. From what I've read, hitting the mileage mandates won't be that tough for the auto makers; they could have done it earlier, but the truth is there is more profit in trucks and SUV's, so they try to steer buyers in that direction.

100k with just oil and tire changes isnt anything over the top. My dad owns a towing company and junks cars and theres a hell of a lot of really new cars with 150k on them that are toast as 400k with an old school car like a caprice classic isnt unheard of at all and a monkey could fix them. New cars have way too much computer crap into them and it takes a really smart high level mechanic to even have an idea how to fix them. Cars should be made to be fixed easily but none of that is thought of when there being made. Id take a car that gets 15 mpg with a v8 engine anyday if it meant that anything that was wrong with it could be fixed for pocket change, used parts were plentiful and if i coudlnt fix it which would be rare then my buddy down the street could.

[Chadd 916]

100k with just oil and tire changes isnt anything over the top. My dad owns a towing company and junks cars and theres a hell of a lot of really new cars with 150k on them that are toast as 400k with an old school car like a caprice classic isnt unheard of at all and a monkey could fix them. New cars have way too much computer crap into them and it takes a really smart high level mechanic to even have an idea how to fix them. Cars should be made to be fixed easily but none of that is thought of when there being made. Id take a car that gets 15 mpg with a v8 engine anyday if it meant that anything that was wrong with it could be fixed for pocket change, used parts were plentiful and if i coudlnt fix it which would be rare then my buddy down the street could.

So we should all drive old and/or inefficient cars so mechanics don't have to learn new skills?

[Rustpot 1]

100k with just oil and tire changes isnt anything over the top. My dad owns a towing company and junks cars and theres a hell of a lot of really new cars with 150k on them that are toast as 400k with an old school car like a caprice classic isnt unheard of at all and a monkey could fix them. New cars have way too much computer crap into them and it takes a really smart high level mechanic to even have an idea how to fix them. Cars should be made to be fixed easily but none of that is thought of when there being made. Id take a car that gets 15 mpg with a v8 engine anyday if it meant that anything that was wrong with it could be fixed for pocket change, used parts were plentiful and if i coudlnt fix it which would be rare then my buddy down the street could.

Dad owns a tow truck so you're an expert on new car design?

400k with how many rebuilds, how many swapped in carburetors, how many full overhauls of electrical? Just because the clock says 400 and the car runs doesn't mean it got there without time in the shop. As far as car longevity; how many people go a year or two between oil changes, or redline the engine often? Neglect and abuse will kill a car of any generation.

As to all these new fangled computer machines... well they make it easier for the grease monkeys to work on cars. A car comes into the shop and it takes 5 minutes to read some codes instead of a weekend of tinkering and having the car half-running while you chase down a problem. It does not take a "smart high level mechanic" to fix new cars when they have systems made to show you step-by-step how to fix everything on the car. It would surprise you very much to know just how much goes into making a car. It doesn't take a team of people at one company like it did back in the day, it literally takes hundreds of people and years of planning.

Cars aren't made for people to work on them at home, that is true. There are however systems in place to let you know when to change the oil, when to check your bulbs, when the car needs real service, when you leave your gas cap off, etc etc etc. Some of it is there to ensure someone who isn't car savvy can properly maintain the vehicle, most of it is there to optimize safety.

I suppose you'd be happier with a slide rule in school instead of that computer that does all these wonderful calculations that you can hold in your hand. It takes a smart high level mathemagician to even know what 95% of that junk in the graphing calculator even does.

[hamstercaster 2]

Car maintenance goes a long way for sure. Most cars, in most parts of Canada at least, will die because of rusting way before the engine fails completly. I visit my dealer every three months as written in the owner's manual for oil changes and what not. It's a three to one ratio in terms of basic oil changes and "bigger" tune ups. Every second year is a bigger tune up that costs around $300 while every odd year is a $100 maintenance. One one of the bigger maintenance, usually on year 3 or 4 I take advantage of the fact that they do maintenance on the breaks to change the break pads or whatever else needs to be done on the breaks. This way I save on labour and basically just pay for the parts as the labour is already included in the maintenance price. I gave my bro my 2000 Hyundai Elantra and it's still running fine thanks to doing maintenance as per manufacturer's recommendations.

This has two advantages.. or more. One, your car runs smoother and is cheaper on gas and two, if you go in for warranty work, the dealer cannot say that the problem is due to lack of maintenance and thus not covered under warranty. Mind you, I have a very good car dealer with a very good service crew and manager that I can trust not to charge me for things they have not done, do things that don't need to be done etc.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

Car maintenance goes a long way for sure. Most cars, in most parts of Canada at least, will die because of rusting way before the engine fails completly. I visit my dealer every three months as written in the owner's manual for oil changes and what not. It's a three to one ratio in terms of basic oil changes and "bigger" tune ups. Every second year is a bigger tune up that costs around $300 while every odd year is a $100 maintenance. One one of the bigger maintenance, usually on year 3 or 4 I take advantage of the fact that they do maintenance on the breaks to change the break pads or whatever else needs to be done on the breaks. This way I save on labour and basically just pay for the parts as the labour is already included in the maintenance price. I gave my bro my 2000 Hyundai Elantra and it's still running fine thanks to doing maintenance as per manufacturer's recommendations.

This has two advantages.. or more. One, your car runs smoother and is cheaper on gas and two, if you go in for warranty work, the dealer cannot say that the problem is due to lack of maintenance and thus not covered under warranty. Mind you, I have a very good car dealer with a very good service crew and manager that I can trust not to charge me for things they have not done, do things that don't need to be done etc.

That must be nice.

Around here all the dealers are shady, so I go to my friends Dad's shop. It's great to have somewhere to bring your car where you know they take care of you.

[dabeechman 0]

Dad owns a tow truck so you're an expert on new car design?

400k with how many rebuilds, how many swapped in carburetors, how many full overhauls of electrical? Just because the clock says 400 and the car runs doesn't mean it got there without time in the shop. As far as car longevity; how many people go a year or two between oil changes, or redline the engine often? Neglect and abuse will kill a car of any generation.

Carburetors? This isn't the 80's.

A gas engine will rarely make it to 400k without a bad crank bearing, but a diesel can go 500k+ without a rebuild, and 400 is considered "minimum" for engine life.

I did a class assignment in regards to Hybrids vs High Mileage regular engine vehicles and the regular cars (Honda FIT, Toyota Yaris, etc) saved much more money than the Hybrids. Hybrids are only worth it, IMO, if you actually care about the planet and not about you wallet.

I am more intrigued by the Diesel engines, such as the Volkwagon TDI which gets good mileage and Diesel engines are great. Might be my next car if I get rid of mine.

Actually hybrids are much worse for the environment than you think. The batteries in them are extremely hazardous.

I just bought an older TDI jetta this week, and I have to say that I am liking it so far. 46mpg, and it still has pretty good power and decent space for passengers.

[Rustpot 1]

Carburetors? This isn't the 80's.

A gas engine will rarely make it to 400k without a bad crank bearing, but a diesel can go 500k+ without a rebuild, and 400 is considered "minimum" for engine life.

The post I was responding to was referencing "old school" cars that would indeed need frequent tuning, carb rebuilds, and extensive service to continue chugging to 400k.

Diesels are a different animal.

In on-topic discussion, gas is right back up to $4. As if Memorial Day weekend is a source of anything that would cause a rise in prices besides greed on the part of speculators looking to make money on increased sales.

[dabeechman 0]

Not sure where you live, but gas has came down about 25c over the last two weeks and hasn't risen in southern California due to the weekend.

[hampshirepuck 2]

yup back in nova scotia, 5.50-6$ a gallon. love it.

[chippa13 1844]

I've already seen a drop of about $0.14 over the last week in my area. We'll see if the trend holds.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43510170/ns/business-going_green

[TeamHonda401 54]

It's down to $3.58 in northwest Indiana, down from $4.05 two weeks ago. Pretty happy with the gas situation at the moment.

[dangle 0]

It's sad when people are happy about $3.509 for a gallon of gas!

[RadioGaGa 162]

Saw gas as 'low' as 1.22/L yesterday. Back up to anywhere between 1.25-1.27 today.

[sitzlejd 0]

Filled up for 3.33 today in Cincy. Dangle, what do you mean 9/10 of a gallon?

[dangle 0]

Filled up for 3.33 today in Cincy. Dangle, what do you mean 9/10 of a gallon?

i stand corrected

[Axxion89 32]

See the 9/10? The price is per 9/10 of a gallon... not 1 full gallon. Just another way for gas companies to make hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. (versus the prices being for 1 full gallon)

Wrong the 9/10 is cents, read the sign, its an odd even pricing to get the extra cent from consumers without them knowing, you get a gallon

[dangle 0]

Wrong the 9/10 is cents, read the sign, its an odd even pricing to get the extra cent from consumers without them knowing, you get a gallon

whoops, you're correct! my apologies.

Here's an article explaining it

I skimmed the article and read it wrong