2011-2012 Suspension thread

[MattyBoy 1]

I absolutely think Nystrom should have played the puck in that situation instead of playing the man. However, with that being said, what Letang did there is plain dumb. You see you have a forechecker coming at you and lining you up why would you extend your head and try to make a play the way he did instead of staying upright and making a play that way? It reminds me of when Dougie Weight hit Brandon Sutter back in 08 or 09 I think. Extending your head and body in a situation like that is as bad as crossing the middle with your head down.

[noodle3872 40]

I think Nystrom was going to play the puck, he has both hands on his stick and appears to be zeroing in on the puck until Letang chips it past him. At this point, he braces for impact with Letang. His hands were down but his shoulder and upper arm area made contact with Letang's chin prior to making contact with Letang's chest/shoulder.

Yahoo is saying this incident is similar to Malone's hit on Campoli a while back. Malone was not suspended because Campoli made himself vulnerable by lunging to play the puck right before Malone hit him. Seems like a good comparable to me.

http://sports.yahoo....uiG0yBOqMB7vLYF

Here's Nystrom, Bylsma and Gulutzan's accounts of the play.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/stars/post/_/id/16781/nystrom-hit-knocks-letang-out-of-game

[wrangler 157]

Looks like Nystrom leaned into it, and hit upwards by straightening his legs, contacting Letang's head. Letang had his head low, didn't change its position immediately prior to the hit, and Nystrom had time to slip contact to the left, but didn't. These are points that Shanahan generally considers important, so a suspension wouldn't surprise me, especially if there's a concussion.

[noodle3872 40]

I'm not sure I completely agree with how you seem to be insinuating Nystrom intentionally contacted the head by "leaning into it" and "by straightening his legs, contacting Letang's head" Nystrom was skating in agressively and braced himself for the hit but in no way did he launch himself into the hit. When Letang took the first hit from Fiddler, he looked up and saw Nystrom was coming but still felt the need to try and push the puck past Nystrom which lowered his body position. I don't think it was a dirty hit at all. Nystrom pulls his arm in before he hits him. It does appear there is some contact with the chin but primary contact is shoulder to shoulder. I don't see suspension coming.

[wrangler 157]

I didn't address intent, didn't say it was dirty, and I'm not subtle enough to insinuate. I didn't express an opinion on this hit, just a guess on what Shanahan might do, and a rationale for it.

I see Nystrom leaning into Letang at the time of contact, and Nystrom's legs visibly straightening, moving his shoulder up, into the hit. None of this is unusual in hockey contact, but these are things that Shanahan has mentioned occasionally when hits involve head contact, which this did.

[Larry54 243]

Letang suddenly turned left after poking the puck, trying to avoid Nystrom. I think Nystrom was expecting him to continue along the boards.

[IniNew 53]

Word out of Frisco: No supplemental discipline for Nystrom. I have to admit, the Milbury/JR exchange is gold no matter who you root for.

[Monty22 833]

Word out of Frisco: No supplemental discipline for Nystrom. I have to admit, the Milbury/JR exchange is gold no matter who you root for.

I was rooting for them to punch each other in the throat, rendering both incapable of speech.

[camhockey16 5]

i think i would still prefer for shanahan to put out a video and explain why it wasnt a suspendable hit since its such a grey area - i didn't think he was going to get any games but i still think they should explain it

[Chadd 916]

i think i would still prefer for shanahan to put out a video and explain why it wasnt a suspendable hit since its such a grey area - i didn't think he was going to get any games but i still think they should explain it

It's really not a gray area at all.

Letang had just played the puck and was still able to be checked legally

Nystrom did not leave his feet

Nystrom did not lead with an elbow or forearm

Nystrom did not launch at Letangs head

Nystrom did not alter his path in order to make initial contact with Letangs head

Letang put himself into a position where his head was in front of his body and impossible to avoid while delivering a legal check

All of that said Nystrom took advantage of a player in a vulnerable position, but that is not against the rules.

[camhockey16 5]

im just wondering if the nhl players would say they are still a little confused on what is legal and what isn't.

they post videos of every illegal check - i just think it would do some good to post the ones they look at and determine are legal and then explain why. If it saves some confusion in the future then it would be worth it.

[Chadd 916]

im just wondering if the nhl players would say they are still a little confused on what is legal and what isn't. they post videos of every illegal check - i just think it would do some good to post the ones they look at and determine are legal and then explain why. If it saves some confusion in the future then it would be worth it.

The officials, teams and players did get videos from the league in the off season. In addition to the videos they got last year after the GM meetings when the head shot rule was adopted. I haven't seen or heard much confusion over this one, other than from Pens fans. Nobody expected a suspension in this case, even Milbury.

[troy 12]

The officials, teams and players did get videos from the league in the off season. In addition to the videos they got last year after the GM meetings when the head shot rule was adopted. I haven't seen or heard much confusion over this one, other than from Pens fans. Nobody expected a suspension in this case, even Milbury.

Well the franchise did only come into existence in 2005, so give them a break.

[Trooper 8]

I don't really think it's that gray an area either (as a Pens fan). The play happened very quickly, Letang put himself in a weird position, and Nystrom barely clipped his chin. Nystrom may have been lining him up, but I think anybody would have anticipated Letang just moving the puck up and absorbing the hit.

[EBondo 233]

im just wondering if the nhl players would say they are still a little confused on what is legal and what isn't.

they post videos of every illegal check - i just think it would do some good to post the ones they look at and determine are legal and then explain why. If it saves some confusion in the future then it would be worth it.

They haven't posted videos, but on some occasions, more often than not, Shanahan will take to Twitter to discuss why a hit wasn't worthy of supp. discipline.

[Chadd 916]

there are a couple potential situations from the Hawks - Wings game today. Bickell on Kronwall should be one without question.

[wrangler 157]

I'll have to see some video. I didn't get a good look at it on TV.

[Chadd 916]

I'll have to see some video. I didn't get a good look at it on TV.

He hit Kronwall from behind while he was on his knees, might have tagged the head too

[CaptainFantastik 0]

Well the franchise did only come into existence in 2005, so give them a break.

Yeah, that Mario guy didn't come along until 2005..............

[troy 12]

Yeah, that Mario guy didn't come along until 2005..............

Your sarcasm, so good. I don't think you've been paying close attention to this thread .

Any thoughts on the Voracek hit? I was at the game so only had the benefit of a few replays. If there are rules against blindside hits, and hits where the principle point of contact is the head, it seemed like that hit would violate them.

edit for a link

[hockeymass 11]

Typical Kronwall hit.

[goblue9280 33]

He wasn't blindsided, he was skating straight forward with his head down when he got hit. He looked up saw Kronwall, misplayed the puck, reached back for it and kept his head down... then he got creamed. At most Kronwall might get dinged because the primary point of contact was the head... but I don't think that was intentional/targeted. Kronwall didn't leave his feet, and his elbows were tucked. Remember the full text of the rule:

48.1

Illegal Check to the Head

– A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit,

including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

I don't think there's any doubt that Voracek put himself in an extremely vulnerable position just before the hit.

[wrangler 157]

Shanahan seems to apply that provision to situations where the guy getting hit moved his head to a vulnerable position so close to the time of the hit that the guy hitting him had no chance to avoid hitting the head. It looked to me as though Kronwall had time to avoid the head, or at least ease up on it, but he didn't. I'd say he's got Kronwall if he wants him.

[Chadd 916]

Typical Kronwall hit.

Agreed. Kronwall only goes after guys in a vulnerable position and he always hits high. He is the modern incarnation of Scott Stevens, no matter what the rules say, he seems to get away with head hunting.

[troy 12]

He wasn't blindsided, he was skating straight forward with his head down when he got hit. He looked up saw Kronwall, misplayed the puck, reached back for it and kept his head down... then he got creamed. At most Kronwall might get dinged because the primary point of contact was the head... but I don't think that was intentional/targeted. Kronwall didn't leave his feet, and his elbows were tucked. Remember the full text of the rule:

48.1

Illegal Check to the Head

– A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit,

including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

I don't think there's any doubt that Voracek put himself in an extremely vulnerable position just before the hit.

Kronwall begins to make his approach when Voracek is looking down at the puck along the boards, so at a point when Voracek is not able to see anything else on the ice. Kronwall wants to make the hit because he sees that Voracek is unawares, seems like blindsiding. And I think the head contact on this "otherwise legal hit" is avoidable. Nothing would have prevented Kronwall from putting that tucked elbow into Voracek's left shoulder.

It's interesting you say that Chadd, on WIP the hosts compared it to a Stevens hit as a way of supporting its legality.