Supplemental Discipline 2013

[camhockey16 5]

i was actually at that game - you can't tell by that video but lovejoy had a bloody nose/broken nose that was running down his face as soon as he got up and started skating away. I don't remember seeing him the rest of the game but i could be wrong.

he had 13:45 of ice time - which is a lot less than everyone else except engelland - not sure what that means

[wrangler 157]

I really wish Shanahan would get away from the idiocy of considering actual injury, or lack of it.

This just in: The judge sentenced the defendant to six months probation, citing the fact that although he triggered both barrels directly at the victim, somehow he missed. The judge determined that the offense was minor, as no one was hurt.

[hamstercaster 2]

Funny, I remember them doing exactly that during the Lockout.

Common, you know what I mean. This is an entirely different subject altogether. With $2500 fines as a maximum and the ridiculously small suspensions that are handed it out, it's obvious that they don't want to hurt the players financially. Of course parts of it is the NHLPA who doesn't want fines to be to high and they'd probably be filing grievances right left and center if suspensions were longer. One option could be to perhaps not associate dollars with suspension length. Missing many games on it's own could probably work. Maybe attaching a fine to the number of games? 3 games for $20 000, 5 games $40 000 or whatever? Either way, players need a strong enough deterrent in order for the mentality to change.

[EBondo 233]

Common, you know what I mean. This is an entirely different subject altogether. With $2500 fines as a maximum and the ridiculously small suspensions that are handed it out, it's obvious that they don't want to hurt the players financially. Of course parts of it is the NHLPA who doesn't want fines to be to high and they'd probably be filing grievances right left and center if suspensions were longer. One option could be to perhaps not associate dollars with suspension length. Missing many games on it's own could probably work. Maybe attaching a fine to the number of games? 3 games for $20 000, 5 games $40 000 or whatever? Either way, players need a strong enough deterrent in order for the mentality to change.

Actually the CBA changed the stature on fines. $2500 isn't the maximum anymore. Up to 10,000 for first offense, and upwards of 15,000 for every offense after.

[wrangler 157]

No ceiling on fines for repeat offenders?

[chippa13 1844]

I really wish Shanahan would get away from the idiocy of considering actual injury, or lack of it.

This just in: The judge sentenced the defendant to six months probation, citing the fact that although he triggered both barrels directly at the victim, somehow he missed. The judge determined that the offense was minor, as no one was hurt.

Attempted murder does carry a lighter sentence than murder. Personally, I don't think someone should get off light for being incompetent.

[wrangler 157]

Attempted murder does carry a lighter sentence than murder. Personally, I don't think someone should get off light for being incompetent.

Not the point. It's still attempted murder, whether you miss, or turn the victim into a quadriplegic vegetable.

[chippa13 1844]

Why should there be a distinction between attempted murder and murder? Yet another example of rewarding failure. :-)

As for longer suspensions and larger fines, the NHLPA cries that the league doesn't do enough to protect players while from the other side of their mouth appealing fines and suspensions which are meant to be a deterrent in the hopes of reducing said acts. I've said it many times and I'll say it again, if players wanted certain crap out of the game then it would happen tomorrow. The problem is that too few teammates call guys out for bad acts and the ones that do call them out are vilified.

[wrangler 157]

You know what, you've got a point; why do I even get that petard out? For some reason, perhaps fatigue, I had not extended my argument that far. I agree, the sentences for inchoate offenses reward incompetence by penalizing them less.

[Law Goalie 147]

"Attempted murder? Honestly, what is that! Do they give a Nobel Prize for *attempted* chemistry?"

I think, in this case, the reason for opening the argument is that the NHL is, by analogy, saying that the attempted crime is minimally or marginally punishable (often with nothing at all), while the fully fledged crime's punishment is still dependent to some murky extent on the degree of injury. I would get a lesser sentence for wildly trying to take someone's head off with a sword and missing entirely than I would for successfully collecting his head, or accidentally lopping off an arm in the process, but I'd get *something* significant for hazarding a live, and it ticks up pretty sensibly from there based on how much damage I actually mete out. The NHL seems quite content to let people keep attempting to take heads off, with little or no attempt at dissuasion or deterrence -- until they actually succeed, and then argue the degree of 'success'.

Like chip said, this is cultural. Rugby achieved (I'm quoting from memory here) something like a 90% drop in the incidence of concussions *in spite* of significantly increased and improved on-field diagnostic programs, and they did it with a few instructional videos, some pocket cards, a few rule tweaks, and a communal will.

[wrangler 157]

Let's not get started on how little it has taken to receive a Nobel prize.

[Law Goalie 147]

Wink.

[chippa13 1844]

Drew Stafford should be expecting a call for a blatant uncalled elbow to the head of Dougie Hamilton.

[EBondo 233]

John Erskine with a blatant, intentional elbow to Wayne Simmonds' face just now. NO call on the ice, don't know how on earth they missed that one...

[icewalker_bg 126]

^plus the ref was not far.

[EBondo 233]

Not to mention the linesman was looking right at it, and in that situation, the linesman can make a call if I remember correctly.

[icewalker_bg 126]

I like Simmonds, hopefully its not serious but he did not come back. Will hear from Shanaban in the next few days for sure.

[Chadd 916]

Not to mention the linesman was looking right at it, and in that situation, the linesman can make a call if I remember correctly.

They said all four officials got together to discuss it, but none of them saw the elbow. He didn't put it out to the last second, I can believe that none of them saw that.

I like Simmonds, hopefully its not serious but he did not come back. Will hear from Shanaban in the next few days for sure.

Simmonds didn't skate the rest of the game so I think we will see something happen.

[camhockey16 5]

also david backes got a match penalty and kicked out tonight for what the announcers thought was a clean hit - i'm sure it will be looked at but i dont think there was anything wrong with the hit imho.

the worst part is it pretty much cost them the game..

here is the erskine elbow

[althoma1 575]

The Backes hit was clean. He didn't make head contact at all - he hit Huskins right in the chest. Huskins' neck whips back and forth hard due to the sudden impact and then he falls to the ice, but even in slow motion I don't see Backes make any contact with his head.

The Erskine elbow was very dirty and warrants a long suspension (5 minimum).

[icewalker_bg 126]

It was clean but late. Refs were high on something tonight.

[Chadd 916]

It was clean but late. Refs were high on something tonight.

If it's late, then it isn't clean. It is the perfect example of what a referee sees as opposed to what actually happened. Ref was behind the hit, saw Backes come in and deliver a hard check that made Huskins head snap. Everyone was trying to do the right thing and nobody succeeded,

[wrangler 157]

Interference or charging, I could see, on Backes, but the hit looks like a textbook example for Shanahan to use, to illustrate how to deliver a check and avoid the head contact. I'd call it a clean hit, too, as I didn't see anything wrong with the hit itself, but not legal, if it was late, as it appeared.

It seems that the refs made the call without seeing impact with the head. Interestingly, it's the other side of the coin from what we usually get -- a ref refusing to make a call that he didn't actually see.

My understanding is that a match penalty suspends a player indefinitely, so I'd expect to see something from Shanahan right away.

[chippa13 1844]

Stafford made even more of an effort than Erskine to get the elbow out on Hamilton and no word on that one.

[IPv6Freely 2094]

Backes no supplemental discipline, and will also be appealing the match penalty so it's off his record. As he should, because that was a TERRIBLE call on the ice.