Why won't Reebok/CCM just manufacture and sell Jofa 9177/Rbk 8K elbows?

[Cosmic 178]

This just seems like too much of an epic fail. Reebok 20k and CCM CL elbows retail at $99, and seem about equally popular with competitor brands (Warrior/ Bauer/Easton). Jofa 9177/ Rbk 8K pads that are 10 years old are selling for $200 on eBay. Granted, only 5-10 pairs of elbows are listed at any given time, and market flooding would lower the price.

So, if Reebok/CCM were to announce, "We are firing up the old Jofa molds and releasing retro elbow pads (for $99 or $119 or whatever) that people are buying and selling for $200 on eBay and writing epic love stories about as they reminisce. Where possible, materials will be upgraded and replaced (foam for plastic), but dimensions and JDP technology will remain intact. We tried to improve on the technology that we bought, but it is painfully apparent that we are just going sideways and thus spinning our and your wheels. If this experiment is a success, then we do shins and potentially gloves next." (maybe some shoulders with smaller caps would be nice, but it seems the Reebok 11K and related series are close enough, and the CCM CL are actually an improvement!! :) )

And while everyone may not agree that the Jofa elbows are "the best" (I have read that some say they were bulky, poor strapping) ever made, at least just about everyone will agree that this meme exists about them being the best ever made. So, why not ride this meme, capitalize on it, and let us enjoy the quality that has been co-opted and transmuted?

Maybe I am just irritated that my CCM CL neoprene elbow strapping is getting torn up after 12 or so uses, and that the biggest size being made (Large) is tight as heck on the 2 lower straps (elbow/ forearm), while I have not even been working out. Upper (bicep) strap offers plenty of room. (still awaiting email from the "consumer services" department about my request for a replacement- emails are returned in 48-72 hours I am told)

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/64699-how-to-repair-ccm-cl-elbow-pad-material-that-is-falling-apart/

Hoping that this topic gets hot, and any Reebok/CCM agents around in here maybe have a light bulb go on. Seriously, is this just too obvious, or am I missing something? I am pretty sure you can send the specs from the factory in Sweden, to the factory in China, and they can come up with something that will last 5 years instead of the Jofa standard of 10 years + . As I write this, I am reminded of a business concept that stifles durability and longevity: "planned obsolescence." Maybe this is why Reebok/CCM is moving away from Jofa- it was simply too good for the industry's own good.

I should note that when I played as a kid (1988-89), Jofa was not that popular with my peers, and there was obviously no internet connecting "consumers" to discuss personal preferences and such. I played for a few months in 1995 and still Jofa had not caught on. As I was making my comeback over the past few months and researching equipment, I keep hearing all this "Jofa this and Jofa that," and thus these thoughts of "Why?" (or "Why not?") fill my mind.

[Chadd 916]

They didn't sell very well when they were new, a lot of people don't seem to remember that. Your recollection regarding their lack of popularity within your peer group should be an indicator there. Plus, a handful of elbows pads selling on eBay for absurd prices doesn't mean that they will be able to sell in the volume that would be required for a full production run.

[XveritasX 13]

By being a part of this site you get a skewed image of what is really popular with the public. The few people that are willing to spend a couple hundred on old jofa stuff is a really really small minority. My store had some Jofa shoulder pads a couple years ago that they had to sell for like 10 or 20 bucks in the clearance section. I also think that one main reason people buy jofa gear is the novelty of it. I'm not saying the product isn't great, I'm just saying people want to buy it even more now since it is rare and coveted among gear whores and the like. If they made a new line it wouldn't have that novelty to it.

[jimmy 194]

There was a time when 90% of the pro's uses some sort of Jofa equipment. Popularity is an artificial reason to wear something, primarily influenced by endorsements, and also peer pressure.

[icewalker_bg 126]

Also why wont they bring back the 9k, or some newer RBK/Jofa girdle is beyond me. After the success it has had.

[Souldriver 64]

A local store here gets prostock kids shins in once per season. But honestly why would people buy them? They don't have straps, vent holes, as well as many other features and they don't for any less than other shins do.

[shotty 7]

reebok and ccm are owned by a very large global company named adidas. on january 1st 2013 they had over 46,000 employees, offices all over the world and a fully owned subsidiary who's sole purpose is to source materials and manufacturing. they don't develop new products from the ground up when foraying into a new sport, they buy companies with panache and market the hell out of them. to adidas, a sport is a commodity to increase profits. jofa doesn't have any panache except for with a very small core group of enthusiasts, and even then, it was never cool until it was gone. considering their marketing budget (well over 1/2 billion dollars per year) it makes absolutely no sense to spend any amount of time or resources on a product that will only appeal to a small core group of customers and contradict their message that reebok and ccm are all encompassing brands and that you don't need anyone else.

[McDugan 89]

Also why wont they bring back the 9k, or some newer RBK/Jofa girdle is beyond me. After the success it has had.

Because the majority of the world wouldn't buy it if it stayed the same. And eventually, the gear-whore community would move on from it too, once something better came along. The companies all have to put out new product to stay competitive, even if it's pretty much a rebadging of the same stuff, as we see all the time. They can't just keep adding production runs without discontinuing the old ones. I'm sure if it were realistically a profitable venture, they would already have done it.

[mojo122 538]

When/if Reebok ceases hockey equipment operations it will be interesting to see if CCM re-brands the current Reebok line as CCM or just offers the current line of CCM equipment.

[XveritasX 13]

When/if Reebok ceases hockey equipment operations it will be interesting to see if CCM re-brands the current Reebok line as CCM or just offers the current line of CCM equipment.

I would think/hope it gets integrated. Most hockey companies have multiple lines equipment wise so I could see CCM doing that for sure.

[z.adamowski 0]

I would think/hope it gets integrated. Most hockey companies have multiple lines equipment wise so I could see CCM doing that for sure.

I'm dreaming of CCM reviving the 7K Pro line at retail once Reebok and CCM merge. If they were to add a strapping system and calf protection to the shin pads and manufacture the line of pads in Asia I could see them competing with success at the U+ CL line's pricepoint. It's too bad it won't happen... At least I can dream of RBZ-branded pro stock Jofa gear.

I honestly think CCM could compete evenly with Bauer if they ran with CL and Jofa lines of protective - once they integrate an updated Ribcor line and put Crosby, Datsyuk, Luongo and Fleury in CCM-branded gear.

[shotty 7]

When/if Reebok ceases hockey equipment operations it will be interesting to see if CCM re-brands the current Reebok line as CCM or just offers the current line of CCM equipment.

in corporate documents that i've seen, they don't even list reebok hockey as a division, just ccm.

[icewalker_bg 126]

Also why wont they bring back the 9k, or some newer RBK/Jofa girdle is beyond me. After the success it has had.

Because the majority of the world wouldn't buy it if it stayed the same. And eventually, the gear-whore community would move on from it too, once something better came along. The companies all have to put out new product to stay competitive, even if it's pretty much a rebadging of the same stuff, as we see all the time. They can't just keep adding production runs without discontinuing the old ones. I'm sure if it were realistically a profitable venture, they would already have done it.

Thats what I said, something newer. And for the rest, people still the buy the 9k in 200-250$ range fyi, I have sold a couple of mine in no time recently.

[Cavs019 710]

I think they have similar appeal to things like....T-Flex Comp blades, XN10s, Mission S500 skates, etc. Rare, awesome items that only the enthusiasts know about/are willing to go the extra mile to obtain, but don't scale well at retail as chadd alluded to.

[AIREAYE 248]

Me : "...and Reebok's protective gear all have heritage in the old Jofa designs."

Customer : "Joe who?"

[A2rhino 63]

Shotty; Props to you throwing out there that jofa doesn't have any panache. I cant remember the last time I heard that term. LOL!!!

Jofa shins are the only shins I have ever used and I have ALWAYS been happy with them. I still have 4 pair and will keep them until the day I hang up my skates. I have always found them to be a great fit and extremly protectieve.

[flip12 717]

For all the greatness that some of the Jofa equipment could offer, it was also way too much for a lot of people: too stiff at first, too clunky until broken in. I have old Jofa 3195's now, which are essentially the 7k shin, with extra thigh and calf padding, and after using them just a few times, they feel molded to my legs. But for a lot of people those bells and whistles are what's important. I can only imagine how much the LHS members here know how these products have to compete on first impression bases in order to generate sales. It's not always for deeper performance features that people make purchases in that kind of marketplace.

With all of that said, at the LHS near me, they do have 20k Pro Long elbow pads, with that extra-length of slash guard protection on the forearm--it's essentially the 20k elbow with 9177 features. But I'm in Denmark, so after import fees and our 25% sales tax, you pay $160 for them. It could be that they have certain markets where they make those elbow pads available to the public, which would make sense here since the average height is quite high.

[SCATMAN 33]

For all the greatness that some of the Jofa equipment could offer, it was also way too much for a lot of people: too stiff at first, too clunky until broken in. I have old Jofa 3195's now, which are essentially the 7k shin, with extra thigh and calf padding, and after using them just a few times, they feel molded to my legs. But for a lot of people those bells and whistles are what's important. I can only imagine how much the LHS members here know how these products have to compete on first impression bases in order to generate sales. It's not always for deeper performance features that people make purchases in that kind of marketplace.

With all of that said, at the LHS near me, they do have 20k Pro Long elbow pads, with that extra-length of slash guard protection on the forearm--it's essentially the 20k elbow with 9177 features. But I'm in Denmark, so after import fees and our 25% sales tax, you pay $160 for them. It could be that they have certain markets where they make those elbow pads available to the public, which would make sense here since the average height is quite high.

Are they online at all?

[flip12 717]

Are they online at all?

Here. The picture is of the normal 20K but from the last line in the description it sounds like the one I saw in the store, 9177-style slash extension.

But I just double checked the price--due, I'm guessing, to the USA's phenomenal governance record of late and the subsequent dip in the exchange rate USD to DKK, these now convert to about $175.

[SCATMAN 33]

Here. The picture is of the normal 20K but from the last line in the description it sounds like the one I saw in the store, 9177-style slash extension.

But I just double checked the price--due, I'm guessing, to the USA's phenomenal governance record of late and the subsequent dip in the exchange rate USD to DKK, these now convert to about $175.

Thanks flip12, I'm in Aus, even then it still converts pretty high :'(

[leftwinger37 43]

Reebok still manufactures the 7k and 8k Pro, but for pros only of course. I would imagine the only reason they are still being made is to steer pro players away from other brands and keep up the image of the "pro preferred" brand for protective gear.

I'm not sure where the "new" 7k and 8k Pro models are made, but one would assume that when considering the higher grade materials used for the pro models and if they are made in North America, the profit margin would be so low that it wouldn't be worth their while to mass produce. And if they brought back a retail version of their pro offerings with cheaper materials, would it even be worth owning?

Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-Jofa and would be pretty bummed for that lineage to end if Reebok gets out of the game, but I think it's time for all of us to move on; if for no other reason than I refuse to pay someone $200+ for a set of elbow pads or shin guards on the secondary market.

If you're in the market, try the Warrior Dynasty AX1 elbow pads. They're everything you love about the RBK 7K with a better liner and strapping system.

Edit: I realize now that saying that Reebok still manufactures the 7k and 8k pro is a reach on my part; I don't know that they still do. It is plausable that the current black and white edition with the updated graphics that are making their way on to the secondary market were the last run from the factory in Sweden that closed last year.

[AIREAYE 248]

Here. The picture is of the normal 20K but from the last line in the description it sounds like the one I saw in the store, 9177-style slash extension.

But I just double checked the price--due, I'm guessing, to the USA's phenomenal governance record of late and the subsequent dip in the exchange rate USD to DKK, these now convert to about $175.

That's awesome, it seems like a EU or something-only SMU product. The 20K is an unreal elbow pad. Best they've put out since the 9K imo.

[flip12 717]

That's awesome, it seems like a EU or something-only SMU product. The 20K is an unreal elbow pad. Best they've put out since the 9K imo.

Yeah, they're on my radar to get at some point. But I'm wary of buying it just because I know they're hard to find and I have a soft spot for Jofa/Reebok protective.

It could be it's SMU they agreed to do because the Danes are so damn tall. The guy working at the shop showed me how they only order the tall NXG girdle from Bauer because otherwise it wouldn't fit any of their market. Maybe they asked and swayed Reebok?

[AIREAYE 248]

Yeah, they're on my radar to get at some point. But I'm wary of buying it just because I know they're hard to find and I have a soft spot for Jofa/Reebok protective.

It could be it's SMU they agreed to do because the Danes are so damn tall. The guy working at the shop showed me how they only order the tall NXG girdle from Bauer because otherwise it wouldn't fit any of their market. Maybe they asked and swayed Reebok?

haha that's really interesting! I wonder if they do that in other countries too.

[fearthebeard 2]

Yeah, they're on my radar to get at some point. But I'm wary of buying it just because I know they're hard to find and I have a soft spot for Jofa/Reebok protective.

It could be it's SMU they agreed to do because the Danes are so damn tall. The guy working at the shop showed me how they only order the tall NXG girdle from Bauer because otherwise it wouldn't fit any of their market. Maybe they asked and swayed Reebok?

There online at Puckstop in Sheffield in the UK at £95 which is also approx US$160 so they can't just be for Denmark. Maybe EU wide?

http://www.puckstop.com/acatalog/Reebok_20k_Snr_Elbow_Pads.html