I wonder why carbon fibre hasn't been used as a main material for player helmets?

[bunnyman666 445]

Messier had some composite prototype of his old SK2000 in his last years playing. But then he ended up helping design the Cascade (now Bauer ims 7.0), which is decidedly NOT carbon fibre.

Yes, Reebok has their helmet with cf reinforcements.

I'm not complaining, as a player helmet would have it's price increased by a considerable amount if it were all cf. As a former cf fabricator, cf can be as strong, stiff, or flexible as you like depending on layup.

Any insight as to why player helmets have remained mostly plastics?

[Jordan 13]

Carbon fibre is a light and strong material...also fairly expensive.

Aside from cost, you have to ask what problem you are trying to solve.

In current helmets, the shell performs very well. There is really nothing to fix regarding current shells. When is the last time you saw a helmet break?

Current areas of possible improvement are all about the performance of the cushioning inside of the shell. Concussions come from the brain slamming into the inside of the skull. The goal is to slow down the movement of the head slower with the force being dissipated into the compression of the padding.

[bunnyman666 445]

I am quite impressed with the way the Cascade handled both a slapper to the head and a full-force back of the head first fall to the ice. Both of those would have normally rung my bell in the old padding systems.

The cool thing with CF is that the material can do so many things within the same structure. Look at a stick- you can get the kick point anywhere you want.

No doubt helmets perform a LOT better than in the past. Since the Jofa VM has been gone, there are not the shattered shells of the past. What amazed me with the VM is the fact that a tiny piece of cork was on the top of your skull!!!

I could see some engineering to the ridge parts of the helmet to help with the dissipation of movement working with the cushioning. That would take several years and more than a couple of prototypes.

[Souldriver 64]

CF is excellent at transferring energy, which is something you don't want in a helmet. There is also the point where carbon fiber is harder to see cracks in and inspect and then it's failure is catastrophic. So you get hit once, and the helmet gets a crack in it, you inspect and don't see it, you get hit again and it fails and shatters because that's how cf works.

Carbon fiber changes and advanced every day so maybe soon we have something optimal for head protection but right now the plastic shells are just as light and are doing the job well.

[bunnyman666 445]

CF can transfer energy, but with the orientation of uni-directional plies and some advances in epoxies, it can be more elastic than you think. If you can find an old HED Jet wheel, the carbon fairing is quite flexible. It depends on plies, orientation, etc.

Inspection is an issue. We shouldn't have to X-ray our helmets before every game.

The last bike frames I had built have a kevlar outer layer that prevents catastrophic failure. You wouldn't be able to ride long after failure, but my intent was to protect the other riders.

A cf helmet would take a fair bit of R&D, and maybe it is even happening as we speak.

[althoma1 575]

Google Mission Carbster

[Miseaujeu 291]

Google Mission Carbster

Haha!

I was scrolling down waiting for it....

[kovalchuk71 212]

Haha!

I was scrolling down waiting for it....

Google Mission Carbster

Anson Carter was the king of the Carbster. The only man who could truly pull it off. Dreads and all......

[grnmtnvt 18]

ha. Alyn McCauley had a good run with it too in 2001-2002 with the Leafs and then San Jose. To really make it work, you had to have the Mission gloves too.

[chippa13 1844]

Leopold rocked one of those the longest of anyone.

[Miseaujeu 291]

Anson Carter was the king of the Carbster. The only man who could truly pull it off. Dreads and all......

I'll never forget. Taking a dremmel to an XL Carbster EPP liner because AC's dreads were getting so long that he couldn't get it on his head anymore. Went from a L to a dremmeled-out XL in 2 seasons.

I still have a Minnesota Wild Pro Carbster at home...I'll post pics later.

[ChrisMolnar 14]

I never knew what these were called and I always thought they were the coolest looking helmet ever. I have no idea why. But I want a carbster more than ever now

[kovalchuk71 212]

No you dont. It's a ghastly looking helmet. Unless you want to look like Darth Vader.

[ChrisMolnar 14]

Oh I know its an absolute abomination. Is there any way to take all of the mission logos off of it though? Seriously thinking of getting one now

[SirJW 207]

Also wasn't the Carbster designed like Moto and Bike helmets to crack on impact diffusing energy to help prevent injury ? Isn't this the hardest thing for football and hockey helmet designers, designing and helmet to diffuse enough energy w/ out cracking on impact?

[TeamHonda401 54]

The problem would lie in carbon fiber's deformation properties. The "elastic range" where the product will return to it's original shape is quite small for carbon fiber. The "plastic deformation range" where the product's deformation is permanent, is much larger.

[TBLfan 25]

Carbsters are surprisingly comfortable, still have one sitting in a box in a closet.

[kovalchuk71 212]

Next to the 5100/Inhaler, I totally agree. You just wouldn't take it home to meet the parents.

[Souldriver 64]

I've sais it before but there is carbon titanium which dents instead of shatters. You can then form it back, not sure how many times you can and what it does to the structure though.

But that would also transfer the energy in a different way, imagine getting hit by a puck and it dents in and stays there.

With the use of carbons in sticks and blades it's not a foreign material to manufactures it's just is the cost to advantage given worth it or are we still waiting for another advance so it suits the needs better.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Still have two. My original black one and a white one miseaujeu sent me because he said I needed home and away. LOL

[bunnyman666 445]

I wonder what Vectran fibres would do to the elastic properties...

[Chadd 916]

I am quite impressed with the way the Cascade handled both a slapper to the head and a full-force back of the head first fall to the ice. Both of those would have normally rung my bell in the old padding systems.

The benefit of the Cascade padding system is that it doesn't break down after the first impact, like EPP foams do. It's really no better than anything else on the market for the first hit.

[Mattc555 22]

I found this article interesting: http://www.usyouthsports.org/images/Helmet_Analysis_draft_8.1.pdf . The graphs relating concussions to interior padding thicknesses is interesting. It seems that current shell materials are sufficient, however improvements could be made to both certification testing and liner materials. The article also reinforces the idea that how a helmet fits is of utmost importance.

[bunnyman666 445]

The benefit of the Cascade padding system is that it doesn't break down after the first impact, like EPP foams do. It's really no better than anything else on the market for the first hit.

Took both hits in the same spot, actually.