Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[bunnyman666 445]

7 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Pretty positive A-Trap is patented.

I am certain it is; but you could change a few features and call it something else...

[Stewie 721]

5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

You get the customers, mindshare, and the subscription service which is where the actual money is made. I doubt they make much of anything in the manufacturing and distribution of their machines. 

I don’t think they have enough customers to be worth an acquisition. It’s a nice niche product, but not at the level that a company would want to acquire them, especially if they are not going to use the technology 

[218hockey 50]

A buddy of mine just got a Sparx. It works okay, but the steel seems to burr a lot when we use it. LS3 and Step V-Steel. Any way to lessen this on an automated machine?

[IPv6Freely 2092]

6 hours ago, 218hockey said:

A buddy of mine just got a Sparx. It works okay, but the steel seems to burr a lot when we use it. LS3 and Step V-Steel. Any way to lessen this on an automated machine?

Really? I have the exact opposite experience. I almost never have hone my steel at all. 

Maybe a different height setting?

[colins 246]

10 hours ago, 218hockey said:

A buddy of mine just got a Sparx. It works okay, but the steel seems to burr a lot when we use it. LS3 and Step V-Steel. Any way to lessen this on an automated machine?

 

Play with the height setting. It should be a nice consistent 'no struggle' sound/pitch of the wheel down and back the blade. If the wheel is higher than it needs to be and putting more force on the blade you'll probably get more burrs.

I get next to no burrs on my LS3 and regular StepSteel using a 1/2 radius ring.

 

colins

[marka 526]

Howdy,

13 hours ago, 218hockey said:

A buddy of mine just got a Sparx. It works okay, but the steel seems to burr a lot when we use it. LS3 and Step V-Steel. Any way to lessen this on an automated machine?

Are you running too many passes?  Unless my steel has gotten really nicked up, I use the presence of a slight burr (can feel it with my fingers, but not that visible to the eye) as an indication that I've run enough passes to fully sharpen the hollow.  If I run passes beyond that point, it just increases the burr (and wastes steel).

edit:  I usually sharpen with the height setting at or near its highest point, as I prefer to sharpen most of the blade profile.  I would be surprised if the height setting affects the amount of burr... Checking by hand, the spring pressure on the sharpening 'head' seems pretty consistent regardless of where you are in the stroke.

Mark

Edited December 6, 2018 by marka

[218hockey 50]

Thanks for the tips guys. We really haven't tried anything to alleviate the issue. He just got the machine. If we can dial it in and reduce that burring I may keep the two new sets of V-Steel I just bought. Otherwise I was thinking these polished runners are going to be way too much work to debur assuming you're trying to keep the polished surface intact.

[218hockey 50]

3 hours ago, colins said:

 

Play with the height setting. It should be a nice consistent 'no struggle' sound/pitch of the wheel down and back the blade. If the wheel is higher than it needs to be and putting more force on the blade you'll probably get more burrs.

 

colins

When the wheel hits the blade it's pretty loud and the pitch changes like it's jumping a bit. Is that normal? Or is that a height adjustment issue as well?

[IPv6Freely 2092]

14 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

When the wheel hits the blade it's pretty loud and the pitch changes like it's jumping a bit. Is that normal? Or is that a height adjustment issue as well?

That sounds like height adjustment.

Also this may be a dumb question but... he used the alignment tool first, right?

[218hockey 50]

Yep. And I've got an edge checker too.

 

Might play with it tonight, our kids have games this weekend.

 

We have an excellent sharpener in town that's reasonably priced but I do like that fact of sharpening over and over with the Sparx or Prosharp and maintaining the profile. Those machines do keep the original profile from what I understand.

[Leif 161]

1 hour ago, 218hockey said:

Yep. And I've got an edge checker too.

 

Might play with it tonight, our kids have games this weekend.

 

We have an excellent sharpener in town that's reasonably priced but I do like that fact of sharpening over and over with the Sparx or Prosharp and maintaining the profile. Those machines do keep the original profile from what I understand.

Keeping the profile is one reason I want a Sparx. When I bought new skates, I checked the profile of my old blades, Step steel, and they were flat except at the ends. No wonder I had trouble with some edge drills. It’s hard enough to find a sharpener who can get even edges, never mind one wo keeps the profile. I think the fact that Step is deeper does not help. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

🙈🙄

[Chris Gent 7]

On 10/30/2018 at 6:17 AM, six501 said:

Anyone use the 5/8 fire ring and can provide a review of some sort? 

I have used 5/8 Fire ring on my skates for most of the last 18 months or so.  I am 6'4" and while I'm now 245 or so, I did weigh close to 285-290 in the early summer which made me even slower than I should have been for 45.  I'm back to skating a lot better and have stuck with the 5/8 Fire as it gives solid bite with ridiculous glide even on fairly soft ice. On occasion, on some of the ice here in Texas in the summer, the 5/8 Fire is like a 1/2 ROH, but it is still my choice.  The notable exception is our newest StarCenter which has, bar none, the best ice anyone in my family has ever skated on, to include rinks in Chicago, Toronto, Minnesota, Colorado, Arizona, New York, Missouri, and Iowa...it's that good.  On that rink, the 5/8 Fire feels a tiny bit too "loose", bit I find that if I get really low in my stance and actually bend my knees properly on each stride, that significantly changes the bite I get.  Almost all of the time (i.e. unless I'm skating at the new rink and it's also very cold and dry), I prefer the 5/8" to the 1/2".  I have done the 3/4 Fire a couple of times in the summer when the humidity was high and the temps were also over 105.  Mostly though, the 3/4 Fire gets used as the "cross grinder" since Sparx won't sell me an X-Ring for the home sharpener. 

My wife is about 5'8" and 130 pounds, and hates not having massive bit, so she demands the 3/8 Fire when hers need sharpening...not that she'd know when that was because I usually just sharpen them every week before we play (best way to not get chewed out for playing hockey on the weekend is to have your wife as your D partner).  My 13 1/2 year old is about 5'6" and 150, and wavers back and forth between the 1/2 Fire and 5/8 Fire.  On the home rink with the concrete hard ice, he wants the 1/2 Fire (he says it is just like a 100/50 FBV), but at some of the older StarCenters with softer ice, he'll have me do his 2nd set of steel at 5/8 Fire so he can switch after warmups if needed. 

I've not had as many good skates when I try the various ROH rings as I have the Fire Rings, but I suppose that's because since I started getting the 90/75 FBV, I've been able to tell whether someone gave me a FBV cut or a a similar ROH because at my size, the bite is about the same but the glide from ROH is inferior.

As for my Sparx as a whole, I love it.  We have VERY few decent sharpeners here, and even the supposedly good ones tend to murder skates on occasion. 

I haven't used my Sparx as much for others as I would have liked since my older son graduated and his teammates are using the Sparx at the rink to sharpen their skates when they work there, and most of my younger son's team is simply not good enough to be able to tell the difference between new steel and well sharpened steel and wouldn't be interested in compensating me fairly for my efforts.  Other than learning to get better at doing custom Kydex shot blockers for my family and a couple of friends, I'm not doing any stuff for anyone other than my 13 year old, my wife, and myself.  I'll tell you that while in actual cash spent on sharpenings, I'll probably never break even.  However, as soon as you throw in gas, tolls, and my valuable time (estimated at my 1/2 my hourly rate at work is still $40+ round trip per sharpening visit), I'd bet I've already broken even.  Accounting for the fact that I never send anyone in the family out without exactly even steel (the Sparx edge checker is really handy for sure), I'm ahead as far as I'm concerned.

My next project, since my Sparks is significantly out of warranty, is to figure out how to find a good (but relatively quiet) wall-mounted shop vac and build a vacuum filtration system that mimics some of the features of the Sparx commercial unit, but better because it isn't underpowered.  I need one in the garage anyway, so a dual use for it would really make it worth my while.

I know this was more than what six501 was asking for, but since I've had about 18 months of lots of use on my Sparx, I figured I'd throw the rest of this in too.

[Chris Gent 7]

6 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

That sounds like height adjustment.

Also this may be a dumb question but... he used the alignment tool first, right?

Definitely sounds like what mine first did when I went from a pair of SB4.0 steel that was old right to a relatively new set of step steel right after the other and did not adjust the height.  I thought I'd A) broken the Sparx, and B) was about to catch the garage on fire.

[218hockey 50]

12 hours ago, Chris Gent said:

  On that rink, the 5/8 Fire feels a tiny bit too "loose",

My buddy only has 1/2, 5/8 roh, and 5/8 Fire. Do I have them in order as far as bite to glide? Is 5/8" a fake measurement on the Fire ring? Are they just keeping it simple for us and saying that bite will be similar to 5/8 roh?

We may try the 5/8 Fire but we're talking about 90lb players on hard ice. We don't have soft/bad ice anywhere we'll go this winter. Usually it's just above 0 outside and 40 inside the rink. The glycol is pumping in at 14 degrees and the ice surface is lower 20's.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Yes, that's the right order.

For some reason I think a 5/8" Fire is just a 5/8" ROH with the bottom filled in a bit, but I may be confusing it with something else.

Mark

[Sticktape 8]

51 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

My buddy only has 1/2, 5/8 roh, and 5/8 Fire. Do I have them in order as far as bite to glide? Is 5/8" a fake measurement on the Fire ring? Are they just keeping it simple for us and saying that bite will be similar to 5/8 roh?

We may try the 5/8 Fire but we're talking about 90lb players on hard ice. We don't have soft/bad ice anywhere we'll go this winter. Usually it's just above 0 outside and 40 inside the rink. The glycol is pumping in at 14 degrees and the ice surface is lower 20's.

Try the 1/2inch fire if you need a bit more bite, last year when it was -40C and the ice was hard as a rock I switched my guy to 3/8 fire and he loved it, he hasn't switched back even through the spring and summer skating.  

[Chris Gent 7]

1 hour ago, 218hockey said:

My buddy only has 1/2, 5/8 roh, and 5/8 Fire. Do I have them in order as far as bite to glide? Is 5/8" a fake measurement on the Fire ring? Are they just keeping it simple for us and saying that bite will be similar to 5/8 roh?

We may try the 5/8 Fire but we're talking about 90lb players on hard ice. We don't have soft/bad ice anywhere we'll go this winter. Usually it's just above 0 outside and 40 inside the rink. The glycol is pumping in at 14 degrees and the ice surface is lower 20's.

My son is 5'6"-ish and 150ish (not really sure because, well, he's 13 and growing so fast those are probably wrong!) and as I said above, prefers the 1/2 Fire on the harder ice.  He likes the glide of the 5/8 Fire on softer ice.  What I can say from my own experimentation is that the ROH wheels at each point (i.e. 5/8 ROH vs. 5/8 Fire) have a little (but noticeable) increase in bite over the equivalent Fire ring, along with a little (but also noticeable) decrease in glide.  The main accomodation to the lack of bite was something I got from one of the videos the Sparx people did, and that was to make sure I'm getting lower in my stance when skating.  It makes a ton of difference to the bite and still gives you really good glide if your edges are really flat. 

 

Having my own machine and the Sparx edge checker allows me to be OCD and make sure we're all 100% level.  However, I do wish there was a way to check alignment AFTER changing a grinding wheel, but other than busting out a caliber and a fine point Sharpie to label the exact center of each wheel before installing it, I don't know how that might work.  However, a few times a month I find uneven edges and doing something like that might more readily allow me check the alignment with the wheel already  installed.

[Ten2Four 4]

16 hours ago, Chris Gent said:

Definitely sounds like what mine first did when I went from a pair of SB4.0 steel that was old right to a relatively new set of step steel right after the other and did not adjust the height.  I thought I'd A) broken the Sparx, and B) was about to catch the garage on fire.

When I sharpened the new Step Steel for the first time on my Sparx I also noticed it got VERY loud (coming from worn down SB Black). Figured maybe it had something to do with harder steel as I had adjusted the height to reflect the change in steel. After that first go round the routine sharpening's have sounded normal.

[218hockey 50]

So I see in the videos the height adjustment is simply setting up to hit the correct spot on the toe/heel. Also I saw the skate in the Sparx with the toe on the left? Does it really matter to the sharpening process or is it just easier to set the height this way on skates with worn out toes?

[stick9 890]

6 hours ago, 218hockey said:

So I see in the videos the height adjustment is simply setting up to hit the correct spot on the toe/heel. Also I saw the skate in the Sparx with the toe on the left? Does it really matter to the sharpening process or is it just easier to set the height this way on skates with worn out toes?

Correct, the height adjust simply sets where the wheel makes contact with the toe/heel. There is no change in the pressure applied to the blade during sharpening.

As it's been explained to me. Due to the natural shape of the blade, sharpening with the toe to the right allows you to set the height higher and sharpen further up the toe. 

If you're curious, manually move the wheel to just before it would make contact with the steel in both directions. Either way, it does not affect the actual sharpening. You're still getting two passes per cycle.

Edited December 8, 2018 by stick9

[colins 246]

On 12/8/2018 at 10:24 AM, stick9 said:

Correct, the height adjust simply sets where the wheel makes contact with the toe/heel. There is no change in the pressure applied to the blade during sharpening.

As it's been explained to me. Due to the natural shape of the blade, sharpening with the toe to the right allows you to set the height higher and sharpen further up the toe. 

If you're curious, manually move the wheel to just before it would make contact with the steel in both directions. Either way, it does not affect the actual sharpening. You're still getting two passes per cycle.

 

There is definitely a change in the resistance/drag across the steel related to the height adjustment. This can easily be verified if you adjust it to the max height just before being too high such that you cause the machine to stall. The first notch below that height will sound like the machine is struggling, the pitch changing the length of the blade and a general 'unsmoothness' to the grinding. Pop it down 2 or 3 notches and it will travel much easier, with a smooth constant pitch.

Having it too high causes too much resistance and you can hear it in the pitch changes. Each of the significant pitch changes creates a small 'stop' or skip mark in the steel if you look closely. A smooth pass will have no stop marks.

 

colins

[stick9 890]

Hmm, gonna have to check that out. I knew how it hit the toe would be affected but was fine once it got to the flat.

@colins No change in pressure applied to the steel by adjusting the height. I confirmed that with someone on the inside.

Edited December 11, 2018 by stick9

[marka 526]

Howdy,

With mine, you can get a stutter with the height set high and hitting a toe that has a lot of steel / has a sharper angle to the path of the grinding wheel travel, but it has always been a brief momentary thing and the pass is normal as soon as that initial stutter is done / when the steel profile flattens out a bit.

Like I mentioned, I prefer to run my height setting as high as I can.  otherwise as you sharpen it seems like the profile of the blade is going to eventually get more toe/heal into it.  Of course, hitting the toe / heel up high will take material away from that as well.  Might be best to swap between higher and lower to account for both?

Mark

[colins 246]

On 12/10/2018 at 4:34 PM, stick9 said:

Hmm, gonna have to check that out. I knew how it hit the toe would be affected but was fine once it got to the flat.

@colins No change in pressure applied to the steel by adjusting the height. I confirmed that with someone on the inside.

 

Adjusting the wheel up or down doesn't itself change the force applied by the wheel on the blade. However, that's not the point - the point is, the higher you start up the blade, the more vertical travel the wheel has to make to reach the bottom of the blade, and that puts more load on the spring (shown top center in this pic below). This causes more force (Hooke's law) to be applied to the steel. As you push the wheel down, that spring in the pic extends - the more it's extended, the more force it's applying on the object extending it.

So the whole point of the height adjustment is to allow you, for any depth of steel from banana blades to brand new Step, to find the height that allows the wheel to start a small ways up the toe or heel, and still smoothly travel the length of the steel with optimal force applied.

If you go up too high, and you have newer LS3/LS4/Step with 10" radius that hasn't been rounded off - you will be applying more than the optimal force on the blade, and you will hear this in pitch changes 2/3/4 times down the length of the steel.

In my experience, dropping the wheel another notch or two will reduce the vertical travel of the wheel, and therefore reduce the friction and eliminate the 'skips', resulting in a smoother constant-pitch sharpening pass, with no skip/stop marks on the finished hollow. A perfect finished hollow should look uniformly polished toe to heel all the way with no interruptions when held under the light.

Again, in my experience, if you are getting pitch changes and non-uniform looking hollows (from a polish POV), try lowering the wheel and doing a couple more passes and see how it then sounds/looks. It probably makes next to zero difference in performance on-ice, but sharpening blades is one of those things where we all just strive for and crave perfection, isn't it?? 🙂

 

 

colins

Edited December 11, 2018 by colins